Hello everyone. I got my first film camera recently, an fm2n.
I shot my first roll and saw quite a few photos had significantly missed the focus.
I figured I need practice, I got a diopter lens correction, stopped it down to f2 for portraits instead of f1.4 on my 50mm and also did some test charts.
The next roll came back with a lot of them basically had the same thing, perhaps not quite as a bad but still pretty bad.
At infinity, it seems okay. And at longer distances it's less obvious (perhaps because I tend to stop down even further).
But at closer distances, this is often what I'm seeing:
The test charts are taken with a tripod. The center point with the QR code (ffs) isn't the easiest thing to align with the split-type focussing screen. But, when I try to focus on what seems to be in-focus in the images, and then look back at the qr code, it's clearly well off, I'd have to turn it substantially to get it back in focus, not some tiny miniscule degree off or anything like that.
It could be that the mirror and film plane are out of alignment. Afaik this should then also be the case at infinity, not just at closer distances, but maybe it's just more obvious at closer distances.
It should be possible to calibrate focus on the FM2n but can't tell you how to do it or how complex it is.
Does the matte or the shiny side of your focusing screen face up towards the prism? If it was installed the wrong way around focus would be off. Afaik the matte side should be facing up.
fjablo wrote:
It could be that the mirror and film plane are out of alignment. Afaik this should then also be the case at infinity, not just at closer distances, but maybe it's just more obvious at closer distances.
It should be possible to calibrate focus on the FM2n but can't tell you how to do it or how complex it is.
Does the matte or the shiny side of your focusing screen face up towards the prism? If it was installed the wrong way around focus would be off. Afaik the matte side should be facing up.
Thank you fjablo, the focussing screen I believe is in correctly, or at least definitely is now.
There's a tab to prevent it going the wrong way in and I reseated it.
I think there's a screw to adjust the mirror angle but it seems quite firm and difficult to access, not sure what tool would do it.
And I'm a little hesitant to go down that route, imagining all the film wasted and how long it would take to get it right.
There's still a small part that thinks maybe it's user error...but these were taken very slowly on a tripod and they all show it focussing in front by not a small amount.
Maybe the reseating of the focussing screen helped and I'll do one more roll with it. I can see the mirror is scratched quite a bit on this but I think that's someone attempted to clean it poorly.
You can check focus without shooting a roll by using opaque Scotch tape as a poor man's ground glass, just stretch a few pieces of tape across the film gate and make the tape as taut as possible.
Once the tape is in place you can compare focus at the film plane with focus through the prism. You just need to lock the shutter open and open the back to look at the image on the tape. It helps to have a magnifier of some kind.
OregonSun wrote:
You can check focus without shooting a roll by using opaque Scotch tape as a poor man's ground glass, just stretch a few pieces of tape across the film gate and make the tape as taut as possible.
Once the tape is in place you can compare focus at the film plane with focus through the prism. You just need to lock the shutter open and open the back to look at the image on the tape. It helps to have a magnifier of some kind.
You know what thank you so much, I've been reading sporadic comments about ground glass and film gate and I just no idea what the hell they were talking about. It was like 15 years old posts.
Thank you very, very much, hopefully this is do-able for me. It was really putting me in a bad mood, I'm enjoying it so much otherwise.
I think I can hold down the shutter with bulb mode on with the fm2n, it might wobble a bit but hopefully that will work.
So ground glass is like the scotch tape but I wouldn't need to hold the shutter open and can re-use it to check with other cameras? It's something you can buy still?
--- okay I watched this video:
That's AWESOME. Thank you!
I don't think I can get glass thin enough to do this with, nor really any idea how I'd hold it in place exactly where the film is supposed to go but I'll give that tape a try!
----- it works!! Haha the image is upside down but that's awesome.
And does anyone have an idea as to what screwdriver would work to adjust the fm2n, I can't seem to find much discussion about it so I guess I got rather unlucky with that. Some guys mentioned mentioned this amazon india ratchet but it looks huge and doesn't seem like it would fit in that tiny area.
Yogifi wrote:
You know what thank you so much, I've been reading sporadic comments about ground glass and film gate and I just no idea what the hell they were talking about. It was like 15 years old posts.
Thank you very, very much, hopefully this is do-able for me. It was really putting me in a bad mood, I'm enjoying it so much otherwise.
I think I can hold down the shutter with bulb mode on with the fm2n, it might wobble a bit but hopefully that will work.
So ground glass is like the scotch tape but I wouldn't need to hold the shutter open and can re-use it to check with other cameras? It's something you can buy still?
--- okay I watched this video:
That's AWESOME. Thank you!
I don't think I can get glass thin enough to do this with, nor really any idea how I'd hold it in place exactly where the film is supposed to go but I'll give that tape a try!
And does anyone have an idea as to what screwdriver would work to adjust the fm2n, I can't seem to find much discussion about it so I guess I got rather unlucky with that. Some guys mentioned mentioned this amazon india ratchet but it looks huge and doesn't seem like it would fit in that tiny area....Show more →
You're welcome! You can use a locking cable release to hold the shutter open.
What I'm working with currently for anyone curious
A bit hard to tell but kind of looks okay... with what I focussed on.
Would be brilliant if just reseating the focus screen did the trick!
I'll make sure it's spot on as is with a better test tomorrow, the checkered pattern seems to show most clearly so maybe a coloured sticker there to focus on.
If it looks okay, and the next roll comes back with the same issue it makes sense that the film is either too far forward or too far back. I'm not sure if front focussing would be too far forward or back.
I heard people talking about the film pressure plate but there doesn't seem like anything is adjustable there as far as I can see... but they did talk about spring adjustment.
The mirror did look a little wonky to me to be honest. Like slightly tilted more on one side but I wasn't sure. Even the split screen line didn't see fully straight through the viewfinder.
I once read an article, the author tested 20 cameras IIRC and every single one inaccurate focus. You need to remember testing much harder on film, you had to buy film you could have shot actial photos using, and you couldn't just open it to 100% on a screen and compare 2 files. Standards not as high.
My 50/1.8 AI has a focus shift, 50/1.2 AIS apparently doesn't, glad I used that one. Looking at a testingsite, every 50mm nikon prime seemed to have focus shift.
The internet is slow haven't seen photos yet you might be having more significant issues though.
I have experienced these types of focussing errors on some cameras. I think it is related to the seating of the focussing screen and mirror in its resting position. There is plenty of scope for these to be out of spec due to factory tolerances and service history. Pro grade cameras are more likely to have better tolerances out of the factory and more robust designs for keeping these in spec during the service life of the camera, although Pentax LX has an issue with degrading rubber affecting mirror seating.
The FM2N has a very flimsy swinging gate for changing focussing screens. I attempted this once, never again. The mechanism did not inspire confidence that the focussing screens would be perfectly aligned.
Maybe I haven’t had enough coffee this morning, but if you did a little research into how lenses work you would understand that any lens set to wide open has little depth of field. And the closer you get to something the less depth of field ANY lens has.
Let me back up a bit: Three things affect Depth of Field, 1- focal length, longer the lens = less depth of field. 2- Aperature (f/stop), the wider the opening =less depth of field. 3-Distance focused on= the closer you are the less depth of field.
Your Nikon FM2 whatever is all manual, you have to think about every thing you can adjust, EVERYTHING affects your photograph. No longer does the camera try to think for you.
Keep taking photographs but keep a log of each setting and then look at your results and figure out what caused what to happen.
^ thanks, I do try to keep logs! I had a suspicion it was focussing infront of where I aimed and saw in the viewfinder. I tried reseating the focussing screen and then tested here... I should have done the test before reseating the focussing screen to truly compare.
Seems to line up very well. I'm hoping the reseating of the focus screen helped a lot. If the next roll comes back with the same issue, perhaps something on the pressure plate to push it in a little as adjusting the mirror doesn't really seem easy enough for me to attempt it.
I understand the tolerances need to be incredibly tight so I'm not surprised to hear about how common it is. I wanted to use f2, f2.8 for people photos so I really wanted it usable at those apertures.
Thank you all. I used a Sigma 105mm f2.8 EX DG macro lens for F mount and some random scoth-like tape. Phone picture to take the snap using the voice "cheese" command with like a blanket to block the light and the camera in bulb mode.
On one hand I dont really think it'll be the problem but I'd probably pop the focus screen out and put it back in , see if that fixes it. Might have gotten put in a little off.
All the times film gear got knocked around including slipping and landing on my FM-2N in my hand I've never adjusted any focus screws or anything like that. It sounds like something that might make a bigger mess. If you're gonna do it count screw rotation so you can put it back to where it was if it isn't the problem
Typically one would take the camera in for local service. Maybe find someone that works with the older cameras and they can adjust the focus. They will be able to tell you what fractions of a mm it is off. Also be aware that there is focus shift in some lenses, so check wide open.
There are a number of camera repair groups on Facebook. "Learn Camera Repair" is one I follow and some guys are likely repairing for a living. If might be worth asking this question there.
Luckily I think the reseating of the focussing screen fixed things:
Thank you all, and I love this method for checking the focus. I read someone mention placing the tape on the back of some small glass and then taping that so it's properly flat, might come in handy for anyone in the future.
I bought a second FM2n to have a backup and be able to use different film since I go through rolls quite slowly.
And ... it's front focussing, massively.
It seemed just about passable for the first few shots, then about 2 weeks later when I got to finish the roll and get it developed every single close-mid range shot that was taken after the break was severely front focussed, most of the longer distance ones weren't perfect either.
On the plus side I know I want to shoot film. But I'm losing it with each SLR having focus issues.
If it's so fickle that it will just get loose (or whatever is happening) and I won't know until I get them developed...it's unacceptable.
Film is a hassle:
- focussing is a hassle
- film handling is a hassle
- scanning & colour correction if you don't trust the lab to get the most out of the shots or you want so save some bob is a massive hassle
- ... and it's costly.
I love the results but the camera needs to be dependable.
With this second fm2n, I tried reseating the focus screen but I see something odd: the prism that sits above the focus screen is a little tilted in the back-right corner. So when you raise the focus screen to close it back up it pops up a bit out of the frame as it's being pressed against by the prism towards the end of the pivot rotation.
It seems to close up normally as far as I can tell but you can't exactly see it once it's in-place.
My first fm2n focussing screen doesn't pop out with reseating, and the prism looks more straight.
You can't even adjust this stuff on the fm2n. It has a basically impossible to turn mirror pivot screw (good luck finding a driver for it) ... and that's it.
And no repair shop I can see here mentions focus calibration for an fm2n. I asked one about it and he was like "I've never seen an fm2n with focus issues". He specialises in the FM2n - but he also said you can't remove the viewfinder without replacing the meter circuitry too, which is wrong.
Is everyone just shooting f8 long distance with this and getting tiny res scans?
It's such a shame because it's so lovely otherwise. 1/4000, compact size, relatively low cost so carefree, looks good. Meters have been completely fine, shutter too since exposures all seem solid. It's otherwise a great fit for me.
If each one focussed perfectly I'd get a couple more backups but I've got very low confidence that they will at this point.
Do I just pack it all up and get an MP? I could get like 12 fm2ns in decent cosmetic condition for the price of 1 new mp ... but what's the point if they're not dependable with focus.
The nikon lenses seem to suit film so well too (I've been using the 35/1.4 & 50/1.4 for now) - genuinely lovely though I wish I had f2 sharpness at f1.4 and a little closer to f2.8 sharpness at f2, but it's fine.
And rangefinder calibration seems like a common thing people do too ...but at least it's something you can actually have done! Even if it costs an fm2n or 2, and you're without your camera for 6 months...
Appreciate that, I guess I will make sure the first one I have is dependable long term, then a slow hunt for one or two more proper backups if it is.
I love the size of it and I like that it's fully mechanical other than the meter so I kind of want to stick with this model for easy switches between cameras too. I'm picking up the later serial models to give it the best chance long term.
But even the earlier serial numbers are way, way more expensive than $150 on ebay. Even a faulty one with fungus on the viewfinder is like double that before import tax xD.
I'm looking at one now and it's in okay condition for over $400 before import tax (20%).
The local shops here are basically the same on pricing, and the cosmetics tend to be worse for the same cost.
But it's a lot cheaper than an MP, which I'm not convinced will be hassle free anyway.
Are there no shops that can work on older Nikon bodies? Many years ago I recall that my FE2 camera was only off by ~50µm yet they adjusted it closer to spec. I'm not sure what they did but it focused correctly with several focusing screens, so they did not mess with them.
