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thoughts of the fuji 35mm f2

  
 
Nielk Mike
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p.4 #1 · thoughts of the fuji 35mm f2


Jack Flesher wrote:
There seems to be a clear distinction in how engineer-brain vs artist-brain process data they feel is relevant. I am perhaps a conundrum as I am definitely more to the engineer brain than artist at heart, but when it comes to actual, tangible results I tend to do my own testing simply because I've seen so much incorrect or exaggerated bias in equipment tests; and especially lens tests. Many seem to based on values gleaned from nothing more than reading manufacturer MTF graphs as opposed to the tangible results shared from guys who post actual images -- hence I
...Show more

Every artist tries to use the fines material for their art :-) Anyhow, if you can't see the difference between the f2 and f1.4 away from the center, then so be it. Have fun using the f1.4 for creating your art :-)



Dec 19, 2025 at 01:31 PM
SGinNorcal
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p.4 #2 · thoughts of the fuji 35mm f2


Jack Flesher wrote:
There seems to be a clear distinction in how engineer-brain vs artist-brain process data they feel is relevant. I am perhaps a conundrum as I am definitely more to the engineer brain than artist at heart, but when it comes to actual, tangible results I tend to do my own testing simply because I've seen so much incorrect or exaggerated bias in equipment tests; and especially lens tests. Many seem to based on values gleaned from nothing more than reading manufacturer MTF graphs as opposed to the tangible results shared from guys who post actual images -- hence I
...Show more

My inner engineer (by aptitude and education) is in constant conflict with my inner artist (passion projects). For photography, I like to let my artist side make the call. I reconcile this approach to the engineer by believing the MTF charts don't tell the entire story. I'm sure we all know of attempts to apply data and reduce decision making to a statistical method yet it doesn't work. I don't believe that we can adopt a standardized measurement method that will apply to everyone's sensory evaluation of sight, sound, taste If you think about this debate in those terms, its kind of ludicrous to think that it could be possible. We have personal preferences as humans and thus its possible for you guys to have different "winners". That is not to say that an MTF couldn't be used as a reference, just that is it not likely to give you clear results that you can trust more than your eyes.



Dec 19, 2025 at 02:20 PM
gdanmitchell
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p.4 #3 · thoughts of the fuji 35mm f2


Jack Flesher wrote:
There seems to be a clear distinction in how engineer-brain vs artist-brain process data they feel is relevant. I am perhaps a conundrum as I am definitely more to the engineer brain than artist at heart, but when it comes to actual, tangible results I tend to do my own testing simply because I've seen so much incorrect or exaggerated bias in equipment tests; and especially lens tests. Many seem to based on values gleaned from nothing more than reading manufacturer MTF graphs as opposed to the tangible results shared from guys who post actual images -- hence I
...Show more

Before getting to your point, I can agree with Mike that there is some softness in the far corners of the f/1.4 lens at f/1.4. I would consider that an objective fact. I think Mike might agree with me that the f/1.4 lens works at a larger aperture than the f/2 lens, which is also an objective fact. ;-)

I hear you about what you term the "engineer brain." I see the same thing in lots of fields in which gear/equipment is central — automobiles, audiophile stuff, musical instruments, computers, and on and on.

I'm kind of in the middle of that artist/engineer divide — though I like to favor the artist perspective. My academic background is in music, but specifically electronic and computer based music. But I started as a trombonist and played professionally, too. I like to flatter myself by thinking that I have some level of balance between the two perspectives.

You mention the people who write about and review photography. I can't imagine that I'm the only person who notices how much more writing about photography gear there is than about photographs and what makes them work. (By this, I don't mean what "rules" photographers follow or apply, I mean actual visual critique and commentary.)

In music, the focus on doing it correctly and getting the "best" instrument is a low level focus, something that you do in the earlier stages of a musical life. You have to make sure your instrument functions and that you can play the right notes — roughly akin to owning a camera and understanding enough to make photographs with it. As you mature as a musician you do continue to focus on technique — it is a lifelong pursuit to acquire and maintain it — and on getting better instruments.

But at some point, if you are serious about it, the focus on the gear and the development of technique takes a background to the more fundamental question: what are you expressing in your music and how are you expressing it. And while, on one hand, having good gear (your instrument) is important, the goal ultimately is to essentially forget about that and make music. (Also note that great musicians use a wide variety of instruments — far wider than the range of camera gear that we work with today.)

So, it is fine and even important to have some level of interest in how gear (and here I'm back to photography gear) works, what it can and cannot do, what it does best, and how to operate it. But that's just the admission ticket to what we actually want to do with photography, which is to make photographs that make people react emotionally. (Or at least I hope so!)

The notion that there is some perfect, best camera, lens, tripod, filter, sensor, format, light, camera bag, etc. is belied by the obvious fact that lots of photographers using almost any kind of equipment you can imagine are making excellent, powerful, beautiful, compelling photographs. Against hat range of variation, the difference between lens A and lens B in the far corners at f/1.4 on the test bench is about as irrelevant as can be.

One more thing. Why is it that there is so much more material about gear than about these other things. Three reasons, I think. First, you need gear in order to make photographs, and as people acquire it they want to invest wisely. Second, there's a whole commercial infrastructure underlying photography and that infrastructure rewards material created bout its products. Third, it is just a whole lot easier to write about gear and other technical stuff than to write about what makes good photographs. I've written about both, and I get that.

OK, and a foutth thing. A lot of people are entranced by shiny things, especially if they are new and expensive. Yeah, we all understand that, right?



Dec 19, 2025 at 02:27 PM
gyoung143
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p.4 #4 · thoughts of the fuji 35mm f2


I spent a fair amount of time at the start of my photo carreer doing technical photograpghy in aid of research and development (of synthetic fibres). It was important to know how a lens performed to tell whether it would do the job we had for it. Very often performance acriss the plane in poor light was important.
I tend to buy lenses which will perform the best, most of the time what I do doesnt exploit them to the limit and a lesser lens 'would do'. But its nice to know if a lens will do it if I want to stretch things.
Thats why I'm more impressed by tests that use repeatable scientific measurement rather than opinion on waving a camera about in unkown lighting and atmospheric conditions.
Sometimes you have to compromise if nothing better is available, my Nikon film cameras woukd do things my Leica Ms couldnt, but the 50mm !.8 Nikkor, both AiS and AF was/is nowhere near as good as the 50mm Summicron, even just for sharpness at wider apertures never mind colour rendering. But people love the Nikkor and they and I have taken some great photoswith them. And incidentally the Fuji 35 f/2 is quite a lot better than that Nikkor (the newer G type Nikkor is more of a match).
You can do great things with lessthan the best, but its no good denying measurable criteria on the badis of subjective opinion.

Gerry



Dec 19, 2025 at 04:52 PM
Jack Flesher
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p.4 #5 · thoughts of the fuji 35mm f2


gyoung143 wrote:
I spent a fair amount of time at the start of my photo carreer doing technical photograpghy in aid of research and development (of synthetic fibres). It was important to know how a lens performed to tell whether it would do the job we had for it. Very often performance acriss the plane in poor light was important.
I tend to buy lenses which will perform the best, most of the time what I do doesnt exploit them to the limit and a lesser lens 'would do'. But its nice to know if a lens will do it if I want
...Show more

So how would you reconcile the fact that lens A measured optically sharper than lens B in online testing, but lens B looks visually sharper across the entire frame than lens A at virtually every aperture?



Dec 19, 2025 at 05:01 PM
Geoff D F
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p.4 #6 · thoughts of the fuji 35mm f2


One thing about the Imatest system used by Optical limits is that it test for sharpness at a specific distance, normally close to infinity and a flat field. This is important so that tests are consistent. However, it won't relate to a lot of real world usage, where subjects are often shot closer up and those occaisions when having some field curvature is useful or some corner softness or vinetting adds to the subject.

The debate about objective tests versus real world usage and engineer versus art brains reminds me of the debate over hifi gear in the 70s and 80s when the move to transistors led to measuring and minimising harmonic distortion. Transistor amplfiers were sold with published specifications on total harmonic distortion, with everyone believing lower was better and transistors must be better than old fashioned tube amps. By the 90s, people realised that tube amps, which typically peformed way worse on objective tests, simply sounded much better. Now all the highend amps use tubes.

That's not to say lens tests aren't useful, but they also don't tell the whole story. As for the 35mm f1.4 vs the 35mm f2, I might agree the f1.4 is slightly more specialised and within its speciality it does it very well. The f2 might be a slightly better lens for landscapes and if you want to save money, size and have weather sealing. But I don't think I have seen an image from either lens where sharpness in some part of the frame was an issue that was not caused by user error.

In other words, there are far more variables at play with photography and these lenses are close enough in performance that any sharpness differences is a tenth order issue. As I have said before, other differences might make either lens a good choice.



Dec 19, 2025 at 05:51 PM
gyoung143
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p.4 #7 · thoughts of the fuji 35mm f2


I would expectgeneral experience to match scientific testing, unless there was major sample variation. Fuji isnt known for that. But the differences hetween the lenses are pretty small, so sample vatiation is a possibility. Its not as if its only one yest, I gave optical limits as an example, when I was looking before buying there were others, in fact they all agreed.
If I do more 'relaxed' or informal testing myself then I expect my results to be broadlyin line with the expert testing, if not there are two posdibilities, my samples are not typical or my testing regime is not rigourous. Its easy to be swayed too by unconscious bias ifa lens you love for other reasons isnot the 'ideal' one hoped, especiallyif diferencies are minor and judgement 8is interpretive rather than numerical.
I did a lot of 'brick wall' and 'houses across the street' tests with the Sony A7 when I hot iy, to see which of my much loved film era lenses were ruined by the sensor characteristics. A sad time, and led to the decision to 'go native' and buy Fuji with lenses designed for the cameras, rather than rely on adapted old faithfulls.
I think its appropriate touse near infinity test 'targets' for general purpose lenses. That wgere they will be used the majority of the time, say 10 ft to infinity, and a flat field should be the norm and needs commenting on if not the case. If you have a need outside that then you need to avoid exotic designs and/or get specialist tools for the job. Anything in 15ft down to 1:1 a macro is usually better, or at least a simple lens design, no f/1.2 portrait lens, or good superwide, is likely to perform well at 2ft. If ut does its a bonus, if it doesn't (like the 23mm f/2) its not a valid harsh criticism in my view.
Perfect lenses dont exist in my experience, the key is to know the characteristics and see if they affect what you do. For my Nikon aps-c dslr I had to use a Tamron 17-50 zoom most of the time in spite of its considerable curvature of field at 17mm, and a Tokina wide zoom with drawing and bulk/weight issues, because there weren't any decent wide angles for aps-c at the time, DoF masked the curvature most of the time, but another reason to turn to Fuji with really good wideangles availzble.

Gerry



Dec 20, 2025 at 06:30 AM
Jack Flesher
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p.4 #8 · thoughts of the fuji 35mm f2


gyoung143 wrote:
I would expectgeneral experience to match scientific testing, unless there was major sample variation. Fuji isnt known for that. But the differences hetween the lenses are pretty small, so sample vatiation is a possibility. Its not as if its only one yest, I gave optical limits as an example, when I was looking before buying there were others, in fact they all agreed.
If I do more 'relaxed' or informal testing myself then I expect my results to be broadlyin line with the expert testing, if not there are two posdibilities, my samples are not typical or my testing regime is
...Show more

No, I don’t buy your brush off answer. Several users have shown clearly superior corner to corner performance from the 35/1.4 over the 35/2 than your “optical limits” tests indicated. Perhaps they were the biased party? Not likely, and more likely had a single, crap copy of the 35/1.4 — probably rented and probably mishandled at some point. Their conclusion is just too far off actual user experience from experienced users who owned and used both lenses to suggest otherwise.

End of day, the argument is moot at this point. You adhere to your beliefs, I adhere to my actual experience, and everyone else is left to their own interpretation of the disparate views expressed.

Merry Christmas and Happy Chanukah, and to all have a blessed holiday season!



Dec 20, 2025 at 10:46 AM
gyoung143
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p.4 #9 · thoughts of the fuji 35mm f2


Jack Flesher wrote:
No, I don’t buy your brush off answer. Several users have shown clearly superior corner to corner performance from the 35/1.4 over the 35/2 than your “optical limits” tests indicated. Perhaps they were the biased party? Not likely, and more likely had a single, crap copy of the 35/1.4 — probably rented and probably mishandled at some point. Their conclusion is just too far off actual user experience from experienced users who owned and used both lenses to suggest otherwise.

End of day, the argument is moot at this point. You adhere to your beliefs, I adhere to my
...Show more

Optical limits is just an example, ephotozine tells the same story. As I said before when I looked I could not find one reviewer with measurements that showed the 1.4 sharper than the f/2. If you can find one I would be genuinely interested to know of it. Surely all those well respected testers can't have had duds, and they would be bright enough to spot it.

Gerry



Dec 20, 2025 at 02:56 PM
gdanmitchell
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p.4 #10 · thoughts of the fuji 35mm f2


Geoff D F wrote:
The debate about objective tests versus real world usage and engineer versus art brains reminds me of the debate over hifi gear in the 70s and 80s when the move to transistors led to measuring and minimising harmonic distortion. Transistor amplfiers were sold with published specifications on total harmonic distortion, with everyone believing lower was better and transistors must be better than old fashioned tube amps. By the 90s, people realised that tube amps, which typically peformed way worse on objective tests, simply sounded much better. Now all the highend amps use tubes.


One thing about the whole audiophile scene that has always impressed me is that those folks who invest ridiculous sums in the supposedly best 6–and 6-figure systems are almost never musicians.

In fact, most musicians I know (and I know a lot of them) regard the audiophile types are pretty much oddballs who are missing the point. (And in the end, no audio system, no matter how good, ever sounds precisely like an actual musician or group fo them performing.)

The first encounter with that world that I recall was decades ago when audio CD players were first coming out. A group of us musicians (classical folks) went to visit a local audiophile store to find out about this new gear. None of us ever forgot the sales person waxing eloquently (and, to us, nonsensically) about the “expanded sound stage” from one device compared to another or the claim that many might prefer super-expensive analog systems in order to avoid the presence of “digital glare.”

We laughed about that for years.



Dec 20, 2025 at 11:25 PM
 


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gyoung143
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p.4 #11 · thoughts of the fuji 35mm f2


gdanmitchell wrote:
One thing about the whole audiophile scene that has always impressed me is that those folks who invest ridiculous sums in the supposedly best 6–and 6-figure systems are almost never musicians.

In fact, most musicians I know (and I know a lot of them) regard the audiophile types are pretty much oddballs who are missing the point. (And in the end, no audio system, no matter how good, ever sounds precisely like an actual musician or group fo them performing.)

The first encounter with that world that I recall was decades ago when audio CD players were first coming out. A group
...Show more

I found I was less aware that it was a recorded experience if it was a CD, none of tge clicks and hiss you got from 'vinyl'. I am not a musician, but I have done a bit of recording of live music etc, forcAV projects. There you are faced immediately by the difference between the live performance and the recorded sound, can't beat listening to the real thing.
Even more pseudo physiological clap trap in the audio world than in photography I think.

Gerry



Dec 21, 2025 at 02:57 AM
Nielk Mike
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p.4 #12 · thoughts of the fuji 35mm f2


gdanmitchell wrote:
One thing about the whole audiophile scene that has always impressed me is that those folks who invest ridiculous sums in the supposedly best 6–and 6-figure systems are almost never musicians.

In fact, most musicians I know (and I know a lot of them) regard the audiophile types are pretty much oddballs who are missing the point. (And in the end, no audio system, no matter how good, ever sounds precisely like an actual musician or group fo them performing.)

The first encounter with that world that I recall was decades ago when audio CD players were first coming out. A group
...Show more

Dan, while I agree on the audiophile side, I think the difference between the 1.4 and f2 is a lot more obvious in real word testing and use than the difference between a 1mm and 1cm speaker cable.

For someone looking to get either the 1.4 or 2, it is important to know the differences. Downplaying or outright rejecting those differences is not helpful. Putting more emphasis on rendering and speed than resolution at certain apertures is fine. But folks fighting tooth and nail that their subjective perception of sharpness favors the f1.4 (despite of all the testing and reviews available) is beyond me.



Dec 21, 2025 at 04:09 AM
Jack Flesher
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p.4 #13 · thoughts of the fuji 35mm f2


Except that empirical results, meaning actual images compared side by side with both lenses, show the 35/1.4 as good as and occasionally better than the 35/2 at center and edges, and undeniably better in the corners at ALL apertures. Yet a few of you dispute that empirical evidence due to a certain measurement. This underscores our difference; those of us that compare actual images against you who infer performance based off data charts.


Dec 21, 2025 at 10:52 AM
gyoung143
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p.4 #14 · thoughts of the fuji 35mm f2




Jack Flesher wrote:
Except that empirical results, meaning actual images compared side by side with both lenses, show the 35/1.4 as good as and occasionally better than the 35/2 at center and edges, and undeniably better in the corners at ALL apertures. Yet a few of you dispute that empirical evidence due to a certain measurement. This underscores our difference; those of us that compare actual images against you who infer performance based off data charts.

Trouble is that your 'empirical' evidence is a matter of judgement, affected in uncertain ways by technique and processing. Objective measurement is not.
In this case there is so little between the two lenses most people most of the time wouldn't tell the difference.
But it is not a reasonable assumption that all scientific tests are wrong, and all subjective comparisons are to be relied on.

Gerry



Dec 21, 2025 at 11:45 AM
Geoff D F
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p.4 #15 · thoughts of the fuji 35mm f2


In the early days of the X system, Fuji X lenses were rumoured to suffer from copy variation. There were quite a few complaints of some lenses being ordinary to poor performers particularly in the corners, and also some complaints of decentering. This was is alongside others reporting they thought the lenses were very good. If copy variation was an issue as Fuji started up X lens production, this might account for some poor test results as well as widely differing views of certain lenses' performance. Most test results of the 35mm f1.4 are likely from early batches.

The 18mm f2 also springs to mind, as it seems it had a poor reputation early on. I think my copy is great.



Dec 21, 2025 at 03:57 PM
Nielk Mike
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p.4 #16 · thoughts of the fuji 35mm f2


Geoff D F wrote:
In the early days of the X system, Fuji X lenses were rumoured to suffer from copy variation. There were quite a few complaints of some lenses being ordinary to poor performers particularly in the corners, and also some complaints of decentering. This was is alongside others reporting they thought the lenses were very good. If copy variation was an issue as Fuji started up X lens production, this might account for some poor test results as well as widely differing views of certain lenses' performance. Most test results of the 35mm f1.4 are likely from early batches.

The
...Show more

From Optical Limits:

"MTF (resolution)
Ultra-large aperture lenses tend to have corner issues at large aperture settings and the Fujinon follows the norm here. The center performance is already great but the outer image region is quite soft both at f/1.4 and f/2. The center quality is outstanding at f/2.8 and the borders/corners are at least lifted to a good level. The peak performance is reached around f/5.6 with a very good quality across the image field. Diffraction effects are visible at f/11 but the results are still very impressive here. The field curvature stays pretty low across the tested aperture range.

"The centering quality of the tested (2nd) sample was very good. However, the initially tested sample had a centering defect".

It confirms my personal findings using my 35f1.4, and also the copy variance issue (de-centering). However, centering was not an issue with the sample that was tested.



Dec 22, 2025 at 03:43 AM
Jack Flesher
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p.4 #17 · thoughts of the fuji 35mm f2


Sigh... Actual test image crops from both lenses side-by-side. By my eyes, totally disagrees with whatever source you're quoting Mike...

















Dec 22, 2025 at 10:06 AM
deadwolfbones
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p.4 #18 · thoughts of the fuji 35mm f2


Jack Flesher wrote:
It's a fine lens. However for the same money and at virtually same size, you can pick up the 35/1.4 -- which is at least as sharp or sharper at f2, and has the extra stop and glorious rendering.


I got my 35/2 for $200 and I've never seen a 35/1.4 near that price.



Dec 22, 2025 at 11:09 AM
Nielk Mike
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p.4 #19 · thoughts of the fuji 35mm f2


Jack Flesher wrote:
Sigh... Actual test image crops from both lenses side-by-side. By my eyes, totally disagrees with whatever source you're quoting Mike...


Source? My own testing very different. https://flic.kr/s/aHBqjCEueA
And this is on a 26MP sensor - worse on 40MP. But in line with Optical Limits and LensTip.



Dec 22, 2025 at 11:10 AM
Jack Flesher
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p.4 #20 · thoughts of the fuji 35mm f2


Nielk Mike wrote:

Source? My own testing very different. https://flic.kr/s/aHBqjCEueA
And this is on a 26MP sensor - worse on 40MP. But in line with Optical Limits and LensTip.


For about the third time, my source is the link I posted a couple pages back in this very thread.

Also YOUR test was done at relatively close “indoor” distance, and NOT landscape distance. Closer subject distance in turn gives a more usable total image circle, where true infinity is more demanding on lenses, especially at corners and edges.



Dec 22, 2025 at 12:34 PM
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