guess what? no one gives AF. your clients wont care, IG users will scroll by it. It's only a dick measuring contest for people on forums to argue about.
j4nu wrote:
No chance, sales team won't allow it .
You are probably right. Cheating is so much more fun. Ask today's world leaders and they will tell you so.
There are things I don't understand though about the Photonstophotos numbers. I compared my A1 DR numbers to the A7M5. The new 33MP sensor with NR shows a very small (a third of a stop only) over the 50MP A1 sensor without NR.
Can this be correct?
3catsinky wrote:
guess what? no one gives AF. your clients wont care, IG users will scroll by it. It's only a dick measuring contest for people on forums to argue about.
Every new camera released we have the same group rip it apart on technicalities…not on image outcomes.
chez wrote:
Every new camera released we have the same group rip it apart on technicalities…not on image outcomes.
So it is. We already know the images will be fine. What's left to discuss is the minute details that really doesn't mean anything. And of course, some has to whine about the discussions.
Jonas B wrote:
So it is. We already know the images will be fine. What's left to discuss is the minute details that really doesn't mean anything. And of course, some has to whine about the discussions.
Yeh for some it’s the photos the camera can produce. For others it’s the charts and diagrams.
If I am reading the graph at photonstophotos correctly, it looks like there is only noise reduction at ISO 100 and less, and ISO 51,200 and greater. In between is marked as scaling.
Personally, my opion comes down to whether we see artifacts in the photos, such as the star eater issue returning or a loss of detail. We kind of lost raw files being truly raw a while ago.
DWOfPaul wrote:
If I am reading the graph at photonstophotos correctly, it looks like there is only noise reduction at ISO 100 and less, and ISO 51,200 and greater. In between is marked as scaling.
Personally, my opion comes down to whether we see artifacts in the photos, such as the star eater issue returning or a loss of detail. We kind of lost raw files being truly raw a while ago.
Bill graphed upside-down triangles for all ISOs, indicating NR at all ISOs. The empty triangles below ISO 100 and above ISO 51,200 represent "fake" iSOs.
chez wrote:
Yeh for some it’s the photos the camera can produce. For others it’s the charts and diagrams.
It's worth noting that those who like charts and diagrams frequent gear threads like this one, whereas those prefer to talk about photos visit the photo threads instead. Fortunately FM offers both.
chez wrote:
Yeh for some it’s the photos the camera can produce. For others it’s the charts and diagrams.
Yeah.
Here in the gear group we discuss technicalities. In the image groups you can discuss images.
Tip: You are not supposed to go to any of the image groups and complain about people posting images.
EDIT: I now see snapsy was faster. Sorry for nagging.
snapsy wrote:
Bill graphed upside-down triangles for all ISOs, indicating NR at all ISOs. The empty triangles below ISO 100 and above ISO 51,200 represent "fake" iSOs.
Thanks for the clarity, I was looking at the the wrong way.
snapsy wrote:
It's worth noting that those who like charts and diagrams frequent gear threads like this one, whereas those prefer to talk about photos visit the photo threads instead. Fortunately FM offers both.
Ok…whatever floats one’s boats, I always thought photography was about creating photos…but I guess some some just like to bithead rather than create. I’ll leave you guys alone to debate if one camera has 1% better dynamic range over another camera…have fun.
snapsy wrote:
I'm guessing Sony is applying a combination of DGO and NR to improve DR. Here's my video on the Panasonic S1 II's DGO using the 24MP partially-stacked Sony sensor:
Where did you find evidence that the Panasonic is using a Sony sensor? AFAIK, both the Panasonic S1 II and the Nikon Z6 III are using a TowerJazz sensor.
j4nu wrote:
Yes, that's an important thing to "forget" to mention in the title of this thread...
I guess this answers the question how Sony DR would look like if it baked in NR as Canon did ...
It beats the Canon R5 in the range where both are using noise reduction - up to ISO 400. Above ISO 800 the Canon is no longer using noise reduction, but it's still pretty much even despite Sony continuing to use noise reduction over the whole ISO range.
It's too bad the A7R V is only a 33-megapixel camera - I wonder the files would stand up if they are upscaled to 45 or 50 megapixels to make a fair comparison with the Canon R5 or Sony A1...?
Cliff L. wrote:
Where did you find evidence that the Panasonic is using a Sony sensor? AFAIK, both the Panasonic S1 II and the Nikon Z6 III are using a TowerJazz sensor.
Tech Insight's teardown of the Z6 III. The Sony P/N of the 24MP sensor is IMX820AQJ. The S1 II sensor has identical performance characteristics to the Z6 III for the common modes they run the sensor in, both noise and readout speeds.
I had a sense that Sony would incorporate the DGO approach into the A7V. Panasonic beat them to the punch with their own tech, but Sony saved the higher 33MP sensor for themselves. I'd guess we'll see the A1iii with this tech soon as well. It's a meaningful improvement and quite different from NR.
chez wrote:
Every new camera released we have the same group rip it apart on technicalities…not on image outcomes.
Meanwhile, the other camp swings so far the other way that they basically believe cameras are decorative accessories. According to them, image quality comes entirely from the photographer’s soul, and any sufficiently enlightened artist could produce a Pulitzer-winning portrait with a potato with a pinhole in it.
Somewhere between “this camera is ruined by 0.2 stops of shadow noise” and “gear doesn’t matter, I shoot masterpieces on a boiled russet” lies reality.
j4nu wrote:
We need an electronic shutter (ES) A7V test now on photons to photos .
This would help us arrive at some conclusion in the DGO vs NR debate...
We more ES tests that's for sure.
I realized the R6ii DR at base iso drops 2 stops when ES is used, That’s kind of insane.
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