p.1 #1 · Should I Return Used LN- Summicron 50mm Asph. (11728)?
I've recently returned to the Leica M system with purchase of a previously owned M10-R and Voitländer 35mm f/2 Ultron in the past year. About 20 years ago, I sold my M6, 35, 50 and 90mm Summicrons as I just wasn't shooting film any more. Just today I received the above noted (previously owned) LN- condition Summilux 50 mm Asph. ll. After shooting in and around the house over the last hour, there are 2 things that give me pause leading me to consider returning the lens. My prior experience with Leica M lenses represents a very small sample size (n = 3). Although there are authorized Leica "Dealers" in Metro Detroit, none I've visited or called have much, if any, merchandise on hand to compare ('We can order it"). I am hoping the collective experience of forum members might be useful in my decision.
The first item of concern is the relative stiffness of the focusing mechanism. Interestingly, it is noticeably stiffer rotating to closer focus position than toward infinity. It is not quite as stiff as my previously owned 90mm 'cron. That lens never significantly loosened up in the 5-6 years in which I owned it.
Second off, the detent at 0.7M indicating the extent of rangefinder close focus, while defenitely present, is very difficult, nigh impossible, for me to perceive with my eye to the viewfinder while close focusing as compared to watching the focus scale on the barrel of the lens. I realize that this likely may be a function of the stiffness noted above.
For the premium Leica receives for its optics, Am I expecting too much? Even pre-owned, this was no bargain. I would really like to know what those of you with more experience using and handling Leica M lenses think. Thank you in advance.
p.1 #2 · Should I Return Used LN- Summicron 50mm Asph. (11728)?
Your title says Summicron, but the body says Summilux…
I own the previous non close focus gen Summilux 50 Asph, and the focus is pretty heavy. My current model Summicron 50 (not the APO) is an absolute delight to focus in comparison. Smoother, quicker with a shorter throw. It is so much more enjoyable to use, that I use it more!
If the focus feel does not work for you - even if ‘they all do that Sir’ - return it. Try a latest gen 50 Cron.
p.1 #3 · Should I Return Used LN- Summicron 50mm Asph. (11728)?
JShulak wrote:
The first item of concern is the relative stiffness of the focusing mechanism. Interestingly, it is noticeably stiffer rotating to closer focus position than toward infinity. It is not quite as stiff as my previously owned 90mm 'cron. That lens never significantly loosened up in the 5-6 years in which I owned it.
Second off, the detent at 0.7M indicating the extent of rangefinder close focus, while defenitely present, is very difficult, nigh impossible, for me to perceive with my eye to the viewfinder while close focusing as compared to watching the focus scale on the barrel of the lens. I realize that this likely may be a function of the stiffness noted above. ...Show more →
I do not own this lens but I have the 35 Lux II which also has close focus.
As to your 1st comment my 35 Lux behaves in a similar fashion for closer focus. Once I clear the 0.7 mark I feel slightly more resistance. Not a lot.
Your 2nd comment Leica states that under 0.7M you need to use Live view or an attached EVF to get accurate focus.
p.1 #4 · Should I Return Used LN- Summicron 50mm Asph. (11728)?
I had to go through 4 copies of the 50 Lux CF new and mint pre-owned due to the same reoccurring issue of stiction and uneven tension of the focus ring. Correlated or not these copies also had RF calibration issues. These copies were from official US Leica dealers from the four corners of the country. I wonder if one sent one of the bad copies I had to Detroit.
I finally landed a proper copy right here on FM and it felt completely as it should. Smooth even friction throughout entire range with no sense of gradient binding or tension.
So from my experience with this lens (if it is the Lux 50 CF) is to return it right away and not deal with servicing it, tuning helicoid etc. A copy with the right tolerances will feel right with zero issues off.
Only thing I'm not sure about is the detent sensitivity though.
It is worth it to find a good copy of the lens though as it's one of my favorite native lenses.
p.1 #5 · Should I Return Used LN- Summicron 50mm Asph. (11728)?
I have the Summilux 50 ASPH (v1) and it is an absolute joy to use, with very smooth and even focus all the way through. I bought it used in Japan and looked at 3 other used copies at the same store right next to each other and they were all different in how the focus behaved, some had stiff focus, some uneven focus....so I picked the best one out and it was not even the most expensive one !
So I would say it is definitely worth checking out different copies, although probably difficult to find a store that has more than one in stock at a time...
p.1 #6 · Should I Return Used LN- Summicron 50mm Asph. (11728)?
Thanks for your input. My mistake on the title. "Summicron" should have been Summilux. I cannot argue with your conclusion. I should not settle for anything less than meets my expectations - Especially for the price of admission. My previous 35mm and 50mm Summicrons were significantly smoother in focusing.
p.1 #7 · Should I Return Used LN- Summicron 50mm Asph. (11728)?
burningheart wrote:
As to your 1st comment my 35 Lux behaves in a similar fashion for closer focus. Once I clear the 0.7 mark I feel slightly more resistance. Not a lot.
Your 2nd comment Leica states that under 0.7M you need to use Live view or an attached EVF to get accurate focus.
Thanks for your response.
I want to clarify. The focus issue I am experiencing is increased stiff/heavy focus feel all the way from infinity through the detent at the 0.7m detent all the way to the closest focus position. It is noticeably smoother in the opposite direction all the way from the closest focus position to infinity.
As regards the detent at the rangefinder close focus point of 0.7m (2nd comment). I understand that current Leica M rangefinders are all limited to 0.7m for close focusing. It is my understanding that the purpose for the detent present on the newer closer focusing M lenses is to alert the user (ostensibly with one's eye at the optical viewfinder), by feel, when this point is reached. The point I was trying to make was this: I found it nearly impossible to feel this point while focusing with my eye at the viewfinder. Thus this lens has essentially zero utility in communicating to me when I have reached the limit of accurate rangefinder close focus (thus needing to use live view / EVF)
p.1 #8 · Should I Return Used LN- Summicron 50mm Asph. (11728)?
ftllens wrote:
I had to go through 4 copies of the 50 Lux CF new and mint pre-owned due to the same reoccurring issue of stiction and uneven tension of the focus ring. Correlated or not these copies also had RF calibration issues. These copies were from official US Leica dealers from the four corners of the country. I wonder if one sent one of the bad copies I had to Detroit.
I finally landed a proper copy right here on FM and it felt completely as it should. Smooth even friction throughout entire range with no sense of gradient binding or tension.
So from my experience with this lens (if it is the Lux 50 CF) is to return it right away and not deal with servicing it, tuning helicoid etc. A copy with the right tolerances will feel right with zero issues off.
Only thing I'm not sure about is the detent sensitivity though.
It is worth it to find a good copy of the lens though as it's one of my favorite native lenses....Show more →
p.1 #9 · Should I Return Used LN- Summicron 50mm Asph. (11728)?
Wow. I am really butchering this forum response thing. I just wanted to thank ftllens, and everyone else who has responded so far. I really appreciate all your input..
p.1 #10 · Should I Return Used LN- Summicron 50mm Asph. (11728)?
Np, my helicoid issue was identical to yours so it's definitely abnormal and should be replaced. For reference 3 copies of the silver chrome and 1 of the standard black one both exhibited variations of this misalignment.
p.1 #11 · Should I Return Used LN- Summicron 50mm Asph. (11728)?
widi5006 wrote:
I have the Summilux 50 ASPH (v1) and it is an absolute joy to use, with very smooth and even focus all the way through. I bought it used in Japan and looked at 3 other used copies at the same store right next to each other and they were all different in how the focus behaved, some had stiff focus, some uneven focus....so I picked the best one out and it was not even the most expensive one !
So I would say it is definitely worth checking out different copies, although probably difficult to find a store that has more than one in stock at a time......Show more →
Thank you for the input. I find it interesting that so many of the "first responders" to my post needed to try multiple copies of an M lens before finding a keeper. One might suppose that Leica, which has positioned itself as a luxury brand, might have a better handle on the mechanics and feel of their manual M lenses.
p.1 #12 · Should I Return Used LN- Summicron 50mm Asph. (11728)?
ftllens wrote:
Np, my helicoid issue was identical to yours so it's definitely abnormal and should be replaced. For reference 3 copies of the silver chrome and 1 of the standard black one both exhibited variations of this misalignment.
Good to know. After this evening's initial responses to my post, I am going to arrange to return the lens tomorrow. My $799 35mm Voitländer focus is smoother. This 50 'lux CF lens acquisition is going to be more of an adventure than I'd anticipated. As I mentioned responding to widi5006, one might think Leica, for the premium attached to manual focus M lenses, might have a better handle on more than just optical quality control. Thanks again.
p.1 #14 · Should I Return Used LN- Summicron 50mm Asph. (11728)?
JShulak wrote:
I want to clarify. The focus issue I am experiencing is increased stiff/heavy focus feel all the way from infinity through the detent at the 0.7m detent all the way to the closest focus position. It is noticeably smoother in the opposite direction all the way from the closest focus position to infinity.
Mine only has a little more resistance when it reaches 0.7 from 0.7 to infinity is normal
As regards the detent at the rangefinder close focus point of 0.7m (2nd comment). I understand that current Leica M rangefinders are all limited to 0.7m for close focusing. It is my understanding that the purpose for the detent present on the newer closer focusing M lenses is to alert the user (ostensibly with one's eye at the optical viewfinder), by feel, when this point is reached. The point I was trying to make was this: I found it nearly impossible to feel this point while focusing with my eye at the viewfinder. Thus this lens has essentially zero utility in communicating to me when I have reached the limit of accurate rangefinder close focus (thus needing to use live view / EVF)...Show more →
The 0.7 mark has very little indication that I have reached 0.7. It has what I call a bump for lack of a better term when turning but the feel is so light most of the time I never notice when hitting 0.7
p.1 #15 · Should I Return Used LN- Summicron 50mm Asph. (11728)?
On my copy of this lens the focus ring is a little stiffer than some others, but it is smooth. There is a clear "click" felt at the 0.7 mark and after that it is ever so minorly more stiff. This copy I bought new this past Spring in the Bologna, Italy Leica Store.
p.1 #16 · Should I Return Used LN- Summicron 50mm Asph. (11728)?
JShulak wrote:
Thank you for the input. I find it interesting that so many of the "first responders" to my post needed to try multiple copies of an M lens before finding a keeper. One might suppose that Leica, which has positioned itself as a luxury brand, might have a better handle on the mechanics and feel of their manual M lenses.
You are welcome...I have had the same experience when handling multiple copies of other leica lenses. When you get a good copy they are awesome, and I love mine....but there are definitely quality differences there. I only look at used Leica lenses, so I would imagine the way the previous owners treated them certainly has something to do with the current condition...but on the other hand I rarely see this much quality variation in the used Voigtlander lenses that I try...so there is that....
p.1 #17 · Should I Return Used LN- Summicron 50mm Asph. (11728)?
Have you tried any other copies of that lens to physically experience the difference did you buy it from a dealer or private party
Have you shown it to a Leica dealer for conformation
even if its functioning correctly you may not like it as its intended to operate so YES return it immediately and buy another 50mm maybe try before you buy this time
Can you go to Chicago there are plenty in that city or NYC
p.1 #18 · Should I Return Used LN- Summicron 50mm Asph. (11728)?
2613pch wrote:
Have you tried any other copies of that lens to physically experience the difference did you buy it from a dealer or private party
Have you shown it to a Leica dealer for conformation
even if its functioning correctly you may not like it as its intended to operate so YES return it immediately and buy another 50mm maybe try before you buy this time
Can you go to Chicago there are plenty in that city or NYC
No, I've not tried other copies of this particular lens. I could show it to a local Leica dealer. Generally in Metro Detroit are what I refer to as the local Leica "DINOs" (Dealers in Name Only). "We could order that for you". The largest such dealer had a single new 35mm 'cron on hand when last I checked. I don't think that would prove fruitful. While I could make a trip to NYC or Chicago, I find it difficult to justify solely for lens shopping. I do appreciate the irony of that last statement in regards to the purchase of a $5K lens. But hey, that's me. I'm still adjusting to my new retirement and new budget constraints. I suspect that I will ultimately travel to Chicago or NYC in the coming year. Thanks for your input. I've decided to return the lens.
p.1 #19 · Should I Return Used LN- Summicron 50mm Asph. (11728)?
When the original Summilux-m 50 ASPH first came out in 1995, there were some discussions about the focus smoothness, mainly due to the optical design of using floating elements. At closer distance, the focus feel is a bit 'heavy'. I have the original copy of that lens and it has that 'non-uniform' focus feel but I just live with it. I have not use the newer closer-focus version of the lens. Just want to provide some background info.
