Another thread about what camera to get. In one of my previous threads, one of you suggested getting an M11. I can scratch a little bit of money to get one use, but then I see that I can also buy an M10-R for exactly the same price. So now I have a problem: what to get, The M10-R or the M11?
What are the important points your future M should fulfill?
M10-R
1. the last digital M with a bottom plate
2. great color rendering straight out of camera
3. 40 megapixels
4. comparatively weak battery
M11
1. direct access to battery and SD card
2. “normal” colors straight out of camera
3. USB-C for charging and file transfer
4. longer battery life
5. 60 megapixels
6. electronic shutter up to 1/16000s
7. possible rolling shutter when using the electronic shutter
gammarART wrote:
What are the important points your future M should fulfill?
M10-R
1. the last digital M with a bottom plate
2. great color rendering straight out of camera
3. 40 megapixels
4. comparatively weak battery
M11
1. direct access to battery and SD card
2. “normal” colors straight out of camera
3. USB-C for charging and file transfer
4. longer battery life
5. 60 megapixels
6. electronic shutter up to 1/16000s
7. possible rolling shutter when using the electronic shutter
M10-R
1- Not problem with that
2- That is most interesting
3- More than enought
4-That I dont like
M11
1- Easy to use, but not a big problem for me
2- Boring?
3- I like it
4- Good, very good
5- Too much?
6- I like it!
8- Party pooper.
Also, there is a shutter release action variance between the two, and its matrix metering function.
Others can explain it better. Some folks are bugged by the difference, others not so much and adapted to it.
If you are a firearm shooter, it's kinda like the difference in a Glock vs. 1911. One has a crisper, cleaner break. Functionally, the difference is minimal, but the tactile interface can be preferential. The M10R is preferred by some folks for this reason, just has a different "feel" to it. Again, others couldn't care less, either way.
Gotta get your hands on 'em and shoot a few frames with each to understand which one trips your trigger the most. At the end of the day, it'll be the one that puts the biggest smile on your face, moreover than trying to understand which one is the "better" camera. Imo, the "smile" factor can only get assessed once they are in your hand ... so, be patient and beg, borrow or buy them to get a feel for which one you like.
That last video (haven't watched, hopefully addresses it well) title reminds me that I dig on the metering off the blades vs. the matrix metering, too. This is part of the diff that effects the shutter release sequence.
RustyBug wrote:
That last video (haven't watched, hopefully addresses it well) title reminds me that I dig on the metering off the blades vs. the matrix metering, too. This is part of the diff that effects the shutter release sequence.
Isn't that a video between the M10-R with the M11-P? I'm interested in the M11.
Hmm..two weeks ago you were getting a Fuji and now you want us to do the work on your selection of a Leica M digital.
What cameras have you shot? What camera are you now using? What type of subjects do you shoot? What focal lengths do you prefer?
Personally, if I were going to have only one camera, I would pick up a used Hasselblad X2D and a 38v lens, but that is what I prefer over the Leica, or Fuji offerings. X2Dii is even more flexible. This has everything to do with the type of shooting that I do. There are even less expensive ‘P’ lenses. Now we find out that you shoot fast moving kids. Well, the kit above in X2D isn’t ideal, but the X2Dii might be.
So, before asking others to select something, or A/B cameras, provide more information and do the legwork of educating yourself about these cameras. It isn’t hard, YouTube is full of videos and written evaluations exists.
bwcolor wrote:
Hmm..two weeks ago you were getting a Fuji and now you want us to do the work on your selection of a Leica M digital.
What cameras have you shot? What camera are you now using? What type of subjects do you shoot? What focal lengths do you prefer?
Personally, if I were going to have only one camera, I would pick up a used Hasselblad X2D and a 38v lens, but that is what I prefer over the Leica, or Fuji offerings. X2Dii is even more flexible. This has everything to do with the type of shooting that I do. There are even less expensive ‘P’ lenses. Now we find out that you shoot fast moving kids. Well, the kit above in X2D isn’t ideal, but the X2Dii might be.
So, before asking others to select something, or A/B cameras, provide more information and do the legwork of educating yourself about these cameras. It isn’t hard, YouTube is full of videos and written evaluations exists....Show more →
Yeas, that true. I have big problems choosing my camera. I will only have one camera, and I have always wanted a Leica. I choose Fujis because I thought that I could get the Leica out of my mind, but having tried them and having sold a few things here at home, I think it is time to get the camera I always wanted. The first choice was the M10, but then I discovered the M10-P, and when some of you suggested the M10-R and saw the prices of that one and the M11 then the problem became evident. So yeah, here I am.
And trust me, I have done the research, but YouTube is full of reviews on the day the camera is released and there are very few real reviews from people who have been using them. So that is why I ask here.
JMPerona wrote:
Yeas, that true. I have big problems choosing my camera. I will only have one camera, and I have always wanted a Leica. I choose Fujis because I thought that I could get the Leica out of my mind, but having tried them and having sold a few things here at home, I think it is time to get the camera I always wanted. The first choice was the M10, but then I discovered the M10-P, and when some of you suggested the M10-R and saw the prices of that one and the M11 then the problem became evident. So yeah, here I am.
And trust me, I have done the research, but YouTube is full of reviews on the day the camera is released and there are very few real reviews from people who have been using them. So that is why I ask here. ...Show more →
I have seven Leica ‘M’ cameras and lots of other cameras. I’m old and have been shooting since I was in my early teens. Leica is just another camera brand. You seem to be considering an ‘M’ camera vs other Leicas, so why not buy a real Leica? Do what I did with my first camera and buy a Leica M3. When the M3 came out, Leica was unique and innovative. The viewfinder was amazing and the feel great. Lots of B&W stock is available. The sound of the mechanical shutter is perfect. The lens is, of course, a 50mm. That goes unsaid. Put Ektar, or Portra 160 in and you have 24-40MB resolution with the proper lens. It was the main camera that I used to shoot my kids. I just purchased another couple of ‘M’ film cameras. Yes, I have an M11, the Monochrom, which I consider to be one of the finest cameras made. Leica’s series of monochrome cameras is another innovation, like the M3. Whatever you do and whatever you shoot..which seems to be immaterial to you..your idea of buying used is perfect, because you might find Leica to be special, but at some point it might just be another camera. I’ve recently sold a dozen cameras and will sell another dozen soon, but the M3 will go to my kids…both kids..both M3s.
bwcolor wrote:
I have seven Leica ‘M’ cameras and lots of other cameras. I’m old and have been shooting since I was in my early teens. Leica is just another camera brand. You seem to be considering an ‘M’ camera vs other Leicas, so why not buy a real Leica? Do what I did with my first camera and buy a Leica M3. When the M3 came out, Leica was unique and innovative. The viewfinder was amazing and the feel great. Lots of B&W stock is available. The sound of the mechanical shutter is perfect. Put Ektar, or Portra 160 in and you have 24-40MB resolution with the proper lens. It was the main camera that I used to shoot my kids. I just purchased another couple of ‘M’ film cameras. Yes, I have an M11, the Monochrom, which I consider to be one of the finest cameras made. Leica’s series of monochrome cameras is another innovation, like the M3. Whatever you do and whatever you shoot..which seems to be immaterial to you..your idea of buying used is perfect, because you might find Leica to be special, but at some point it might just be another camera....Show more →
I know that, that’s my point. You don’t just want a Leica. You want a Leica to shoot something.. whatever that might be.. and you value something with regards to how it handles and what process you use to get photos. Just asking about the M10 vs M11.. do you care if you can use an App to view photos? Do you want to be able to charge the battery in the camera? You must certainly have some idea of what you want and what you want to shoot.
JMPerona wrote:
Another thread about what camera to get. In one of my previous threads, one of you suggested getting an M11. I can scratch a little bit of money to get one use, but then I see that I can also buy an M10-R for exactly the same price. So now I have a problem: what to get, The M10-R or the M11?
Have you ever shot with an M rangefinder? If not, don't start. If you just like the Leica name, buy a Q3 with a 43mm lens. If that's too expensive, check out Sony, Nikon, and others—they all produce absolutely stunning photos. It doesn't matter which camera model it is.
bwcolor wrote:
I know that, that’s my point. You don’t just want a Leica. You want a Leica to shoot something.. whatever that might be.. and you value something with regards to how it handles and what process you use to get photos. Just asking about the M10 vs M11.. do you care if you can use an App to view photos? Do you want to be able to charge the battery in the camera? You must certainly have some idea of what you want and what you want to shoot.
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pmeheut wrote:
A camera is just a tool. It does not take photographs, you do.
Why?
Why? I mean, I know why I use a M, why I used R in the past, why I do not use SL or Q.
Do you know why you want a Leica?
Why? Because I don't need more than one right now. I always wanted a Leica because of the rangefinder style and the quality of the camera. I had an M10 before. And I know that the camera is a tool, and I choose the Leica as my tool, having tried nearly all the brands on the market.
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Ne314satel wrote:
Have you ever shot with an M rangefinder? If not, don't start. If you just like the Leica name, buy a Q3 with a 43mm lens. If that's too expensive, check out Sony, Nikon, and others—they all produce absolutely stunning photos. It doesn't matter which camera model it is.
I have had a Leica M10 before, so...
I have tried A LOT of cameras before. I have taken thousands of pictures with each one. I know what I like and what not, and I liked the M10 very much and regret selling it for another modern camera. Now, a few years later, with the possibility to get a more modern version, I hesitate to choose the model (M10-p? M10-R, M11?). That's is what I need help here.
I had issues with M11's magenta color profile even though you can correct it post, but the 2nd very late production M11 I bought had a more natural color profile. Furthermore, Leica updated M11 firmware to allow in camera tuning of white balance, so M11 is better than M10R. If you get the black one, it's lighter. Wifi transfer speed is amazing because I do a lot of editing on my Ipad Pro. The M10R either disconnects randomly or crawls. If the price difference is withing 10%-15%, I would get the M11. M10R is still great. One of my favorites.
Another reason I usually upgrade after 2-3 years, is so I can get a Leica in warranty. Part of of me don't like to have a $6000 camera that's out of warranty. I know that's not an issue for most. More of a peace of mind than anything else.
Working on the same question - M10-R or M11 - for a potential upgrade of my M camera in the future. Before the latest firmware release for the M11 a month ago which supposedly fixed the magenta color rendition of the M11, I would have clearly opted for the M10-R. When the M11 was released, it had multiple issues which IMO were based due to a post pandemic camera model. Firmware updates have taken care of these (even the latest update should have come years ago after the magenta issue became well known!).
I am used to about 40 MP with my Sony A7R sensor from 2013 which supported 36 MP. I doubt that I will see a significant difference in my photos on the screen between 40 and 60 MP. I definitely would prefer to have the traditional bottom plate of the M10-R compared to the easier M11 body layout. Biggest issue now with the M10-R is the M10 battery issue which plagues Leica since months.
I am on hold to update my M 240 at this point since none of the M10-R nor the M11 fits the bill currently for me. If I get a very good deal on one of them, I might grab this opportunity even I need to compromise somewhere. But it needs to be right on the money which I intend to pay for a used camera model.
If I won the lottery, I would both get either a M10-R or M11 and the M-EV1 to use OVF and EVF in parallel depending on the situation.
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