A7V Announcement
p.3 #1A7V Announcement
AI is a term that has different meanings in different settings and contexts. I don't think anybody has a monopoly on what AI must mean or not. Since AI has also become a popular marketing term, many may want to use it to label their new technology perhaps to get attention to it or to distinguish it from the old technology.
Is there any sort of 'intelligence' in the AI AF of these cameras. I think there is even if it doesn't learn and doesn't improve itself. It is still a sort of 'intelligence' compared to the old dumb AF.
I really don't see any point in getting stiff on what the term 'AI' must indicate or implicate or not. There are matters around AI that must concern or seriously worry us, the ordinary human beings. Being picky on the vocabulary of these emerging new technologies is the least of my concerns.
hasenbein wrote:
And in the press release the usual bullshit of "AI white balance" and "deep learning".
This camera, like all others, doesn't contain a trace of AI. AI would mean that the camera learns through your shooting experiences, so that each individual copy over time develops individual reactions to shooting situations. Of course this isn't the case, each copy of a certain camera model reacts in the same way, and that reaction doesn't change over time.
Edited on Dec 04, 2025 at 08:40 AM · View previous versions
Is there any sort of 'intelligence' in the AI AF of these cameras. I think there is even if it doesn't learn and doesn't improve itself. It is still a sort of 'intelligence' compared to the old dumb AF.
I really don't see any point in getting stiff on what the term 'AI' must indicate or implicate or not. There are matters around AI that must concern or seriously worry us, the ordinary human beings. Being picky on the vocabulary of these emerging new technologies is the least of my concerns.
hasenbein wrote:
And in the press release the usual bullshit of "AI white balance" and "deep learning".
This camera, like all others, doesn't contain a trace of AI. AI would mean that the camera learns through your shooting experiences, so that each individual copy over time develops individual reactions to shooting situations. Of course this isn't the case, each copy of a certain camera model reacts in the same way, and that reaction doesn't change over time.
Edited on Dec 04, 2025 at 08:40 AM · View previous versions
Dec 02, 2025 at 05:36 PM
p.3 #2A7V Announcement
CVP have a great review (imo the best) for hybrid shooters.
https://youtu.be/wcff6o3v7zw?si=j-OmnKlAPDbdIvfs
I'll give this a pass and wait for the A7RIV.
Only thing it has for me is 4K120p which is nice but incredibly limited use cases.
The AI chip as I've been told (by a Sony rep) is a chip that does use machine learning to make decisions. Whatever buzz words they apply, the AWB and to a lesser extent but still noticeable, the AF in my 7RV have been stunning.
https://youtu.be/wcff6o3v7zw?si=j-OmnKlAPDbdIvfs
I'll give this a pass and wait for the A7RIV.
Only thing it has for me is 4K120p which is nice but incredibly limited use cases.
The AI chip as I've been told (by a Sony rep) is a chip that does use machine learning to make decisions. Whatever buzz words they apply, the AWB and to a lesser extent but still noticeable, the AF in my 7RV have been stunning.
Dec 02, 2025 at 06:29 PM
p.3 #3A7V Announcement
Flavourdynamic wrote:
This camera, like all others, doesn't contain a trace of AI. AI would mean that the camera learns through your shooting experiences, so that each individual copy over time develops individual reactions to shooting situations. Of course this isn't the case, each copy of a certain camera model reacts in the same way, and that reaction doesn't change over time.
This camera, like all others, doesn't contain a trace of AI. AI would mean that the camera learns through your shooting experiences, so that each individual copy over time develops individual reactions to shooting situations. Of course this isn't the case, each copy of a certain camera model reacts in the same way, and that reaction doesn't change over time.I assume it uses fixed pre-trained model and its chip is not powerful enough to do fine-tuning or active learning.
If it's a Nikon/Canon camera the model may get optimized in a few FW updates (still not tailored per user).It’s still not true AI in my opinion. In Data Science, this would be equivalent to nothing more than an Edit Check — aka automated execution of some business rules. By definition, true Ai would result in some cameras being at different AI capability stages based on the number of use cases executed with the camera and what it learned from those cases. At the very minimum, there would have to be a data feedback loop from your camera usage patterns back to Sony so that they can retrain the models and update it on some regular basis.Absolute nonsense.
Lots of people in this thread having very strong opinions on what AI (an ill-defined concept) is or isn't.
The camera probably has some deep learning stuff like classifiers, which are as much AI as anything else.
This idea that you people have that the camera needs to be learning from the customer using it for it to count as AI is entirely hallucinatory.
Well your opinion is nonsense— mine comes from over 40 years working in Information Technology, first as a programmer and systems analyst, and most recently as the lead engineer on multiple AI Software development projects for major companies… so my opinion is not based on nonsense. As an example, I was the lead for the first AI Application for Data Cleansing in the Pharma Industry. So get the hell outta here with your nonsense
hasenbein wrote
And in the press release the usual bullshit of "AI white balance" and "deep learning".This camera, like all others, doesn't contain a trace of AI. AI would mean that the camera learns through your shooting experiences, so that each individual copy over time develops individual reactions to shooting situations. Of course this isn't the case, each copy of a certain camera model reacts in the same way, and that reaction doesn't change over time.
Jazzgear296 wrote
yongliu wrote
hasenbein wrote
And in the press release the usual bullshit of "AI white balance" and "deep learning".This camera, like all others, doesn't contain a trace of AI. AI would mean that the camera learns through your shooting experiences, so that each individual copy over time develops individual reactions to shooting situations. Of course this isn't the case, each copy of a certain camera model reacts in the same way, and that reaction doesn't change over time.
If it's a Nikon/Canon camera the model may get optimized in a few FW updates (still not tailored per user).
Lots of people in this thread having very strong opinions on what AI (an ill-defined concept) is or isn't.
The camera probably has some deep learning stuff like classifiers, which are as much AI as anything else.
This idea that you people have that the camera needs to be learning from the customer using it for it to count as AI is entirely hallucinatory.
Well your opinion is nonsense— mine comes from over 40 years working in Information Technology, first as a programmer and systems analyst, and most recently as the lead engineer on multiple AI Software development projects for major companies… so my opinion is not based on nonsense. As an example, I was the lead for the first AI Application for Data Cleansing in the Pharma Industry. So get the hell outta here with your nonsense
Dec 02, 2025 at 07:27 PM
p.3 #4A7V Announcement
Cliff L. wrote:
I just sold my like new A1. The used price for A1 is a steal, IMHO.
In Mark Galer's review, he said the A1 and A1II's sensor read speed is 4X faster than that of the A7V.Yeah...pretty much. A1/A1II are ~3.8ms and A7V according to DPR is ~15.1ms.
You can use 15.1ms for most birds and not get bad wing distortions. But you will get leaning lines in the background when panning a BIF. The R5 readout is ~16ms and I used it in ES all the time so this A7V will be similar. But it ain't no A1/Z9/R1 type readout where you really don't every have to worry about rolling shutter.I'm not sure what the readout speed of the stacked sensor in the R5 II is, but looking back at my hummingbird images from this past summer, I noticed a few instances of wing distortion, so even a fully stacked sensor is no guarantee of avoid rolling shutter effects. No such issues with the A1, though.
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octo wrote:
This camera, like all others, doesn't contain a trace of AI. AI would mean that the camera learns through your shooting experiences, so that each individual copy over time develops individual reactions to shooting situations. Of course this isn't the case, each copy of a certain camera model reacts in the same way, and that reaction doesn't change over time.I assume it uses fixed pre-trained model and its chip is not powerful enough to do fine-tuning or active learning.
If it's a Nikon/Canon camera the model may get optimized in a few FW updates (still not tailored per user).It’s still not true AI in my opinion. In Data Science, this would be equivalent to nothing more than an Edit Check — aka automated execution of some business rules. By definition, true Ai would result in some cameras being at different AI capability stages based on the number of use cases executed with the camera and what it learned from those cases. At the very minimum, there would have to be a data feedback loop from your camera usage patterns back to Sony so that they can retrain the models and update it on some regular basis.It is AI. Definition being: "The ability of a computer or other machine to perform those activities that are normally thought to require intelligence." => there is no mention of self learning here. You can produce AI without self learning. And Chess with the Alpha-Beta algorithm, before the engines started to use NN/NNUE is one such example, those engines were not learning anything, they were pre-trained, and yet, they're still AI.
Edit: Actually, even those very new Chess engines using NN/NNUE are still not learning anything. The training is done somewhere else, and the engines themselves are just using the trained...Show more →
I’ll admit that there isn’t a universally accepted definition of AI. For the companies I worked for, we defined what AI meant form a business requirements perspective…so there was no confusion or missed expectations upon delivery.
In most my projects, AI system were initially trained on ground truth data and had to have a mechanism to be retrained based on data generated from the processes the AI application itself produced. So from my perspective and experience non of these camera systems are being retrained on the data individual users are generating from their cameras. Sure, firmware updates could retrain the models, but it’s from a narrow perspective.
arbitrage wrote
Douglas L wrote
gocolts wrote
I see used A1's going for a little over $3k on the B&S boards. I realize there's some new features on the A7V, but for me if I didn't already have an A1 & had $3k I know where my money would go....In Mark Galer's review, he said the A1 and A1II's sensor read speed is 4X faster than that of the A7V.
You can use 15.1ms for most birds and not get bad wing distortions. But you will get leaning lines in the background when panning a BIF. The R5 readout is ~16ms and I used it in ES all the time so this A7V will be similar. But it ain't no A1/Z9/R1 type readout where you really don't every have to worry about rolling shutter.
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octo wrote:
Jazzgear296 wrote
yongliu wrote
hasenbein wrote
And in the press release the usual bullshit of "AI white balance" and "deep learning".This camera, like all others, doesn't contain a trace of AI. AI would mean that the camera learns through your shooting experiences, so that each individual copy over time develops individual reactions to shooting situations. Of course this isn't the case, each copy of a certain camera model reacts in the same way, and that reaction doesn't change over time.
If it's a Nikon/Canon camera the model may get optimized in a few FW updates (still not tailored per user).
Edit: Actually, even those very new Chess engines using NN/NNUE are still not learning anything. The training is done somewhere else, and the engines themselves are just using the trained...Show more →
I’ll admit that there isn’t a universally accepted definition of AI. For the companies I worked for, we defined what AI meant form a business requirements perspective…so there was no confusion or missed expectations upon delivery.
In most my projects, AI system were initially trained on ground truth data and had to have a mechanism to be retrained based on data generated from the processes the AI application itself produced. So from my perspective and experience non of these camera systems are being retrained on the data individual users are generating from their cameras. Sure, firmware updates could retrain the models, but it’s from a narrow perspective.
Dec 02, 2025 at 07:36 PM
p.3 #5A7V Announcement
Jazzgear296 wrote:
hasenbein wrote
And in the press release the usual bullshit of "AI white balance" and "deep learning".This camera, like all others, doesn't contain a trace of AI. AI would mean that the camera learns through your shooting experiences, so that each individual copy over time develops individual reactions to shooting situations. Of course this isn't the case, each copy of a certain camera model reacts in the same way, and that reaction doesn't change over time.
Hasenbein is describing a continual learning model. This is a small subset of what’s considered AI, so I would consider his definition to be too strong
Jazzgear296 is right that it’s not generative AI, however he is also likely wrong that Hasenbein is trying to describe a generative AI model.
Hasenbein, white balance is a value you can measure directly with a colorcheckr or grey card. For this reason I don’t understand why there’s a need to learn from the end user! Sony can take a bunch of photos, together with the colorcheckr ground truth in different environments to create a dataset for an AI model to learn from.
If such an AI model is tested to be able to predict the white balance with better accuracy than the hand written algorithm, than this is a good thing for everyone
Dec 02, 2025 at 09:17 PM
p.3 #6A7V Announcement
BobSac wrote:
CVP have a great review (imo the best) for hybrid shooters.
https://youtu.be/wcff6o3v7zw?si=j-OmnKlAPDbdIvfs
I'll give this a pass and wait for the A7RIV.
Only thing it has for me is 4K120p which is nice but incredibly limited use cases.
The AI chip as I've been told (by a Sony rep) is a chip that does use machine learning to make decisions. Whatever buzz words they apply, the AWB and to a lesser extent but still noticeable, the AF in my 7RV have been stunning.
Funny, the only setting I ever record any video on with my cameras is 4K 120p. Absolutely perfect for doing slow-motion, and motion is always what I'm trying to capture in my videos. Just goes to show different users have different use cases, and I'm sure Sony knows that and targets accordingly.
I would agree the improvements in AWB and AF have been great in recent years, and they are trained using AI data models, even if they aren't perhaps applying that in a way some would like to consider "AI" in camera (and let's be honest, we don't fully know *what* is done in camera).
CVP have a great review (imo the best) for hybrid shooters.
https://youtu.be/wcff6o3v7zw?si=j-OmnKlAPDbdIvfs
I'll give this a pass and wait for the A7RIV.
Only thing it has for me is 4K120p which is nice but incredibly limited use cases.
The AI chip as I've been told (by a Sony rep) is a chip that does use machine learning to make decisions. Whatever buzz words they apply, the AWB and to a lesser extent but still noticeable, the AF in my 7RV have been stunning.
Funny, the only setting I ever record any video on with my cameras is 4K 120p. Absolutely perfect for doing slow-motion, and motion is always what I'm trying to capture in my videos. Just goes to show different users have different use cases, and I'm sure Sony knows that and targets accordingly.
I would agree the improvements in AWB and AF have been great in recent years, and they are trained using AI data models, even if they aren't perhaps applying that in a way some would like to consider "AI" in camera (and let's be honest, we don't fully know *what* is done in camera).
Dec 02, 2025 at 09:31 PM
p.3 #7A7V Announcement
The AI in the Sony cameras refers to a pre-trained neural network. The weights of the network are set and not adjustable by the user... the AI chip in the camera does the elaboration based on the inputs not the training . training requires GPU like horse power and is done offline during product development.
from late 1990's till 2010's Canon used to call their continuous servo "AI servo" AI stood for "artificial intelligence" of course those cameras had no ML, neural network or anything remotely close to that.... just rigid one size fit all algorithms... so by that token Sony is legit AI.... but it's not same level of AI as in a Tesla self driving tech for example. it could even be a simple regression model rather than convolutional neural network.
marketing aside, It's not trivial to make a camera that can "learn" from a user in the field, for example in terms of training AF, if the camera misses focus and ends up with a total blur, how is the user going to classify what it should have focused on after the fact using a total OOF frame? it's not that simple in this case. to re-optimize those weights one would need to feed in specific images of the novel subject with variable focus distances and other criteria...
Training AWB in the field might be possible by the user if they had access to calibrated targets but why would anyone want that ? We pay Sony to do it for us and if shooting RAW, the same training can be done in the RAW conversion software AWB profile where it is much more effective with the computer horsepower behind it.... and each individual can train the profile to their liking...
so not sure what a camera that "learns" in the field from the "photographer" even means... ? camera is a tool and not meant to become a photographer by itself...
the new camera seems to be a nice addition with 30 fps blackout free shooting.
Edited on Dec 03, 2025 at 02:27 AM · View previous versions
from late 1990's till 2010's Canon used to call their continuous servo "AI servo" AI stood for "artificial intelligence" of course those cameras had no ML, neural network or anything remotely close to that.... just rigid one size fit all algorithms... so by that token Sony is legit AI.... but it's not same level of AI as in a Tesla self driving tech for example. it could even be a simple regression model rather than convolutional neural network.
marketing aside, It's not trivial to make a camera that can "learn" from a user in the field, for example in terms of training AF, if the camera misses focus and ends up with a total blur, how is the user going to classify what it should have focused on after the fact using a total OOF frame? it's not that simple in this case. to re-optimize those weights one would need to feed in specific images of the novel subject with variable focus distances and other criteria...
Training AWB in the field might be possible by the user if they had access to calibrated targets but why would anyone want that ? We pay Sony to do it for us and if shooting RAW, the same training can be done in the RAW conversion software AWB profile where it is much more effective with the computer horsepower behind it.... and each individual can train the profile to their liking...
so not sure what a camera that "learns" in the field from the "photographer" even means... ? camera is a tool and not meant to become a photographer by itself...
the new camera seems to be a nice addition with 30 fps blackout free shooting.
Edited on Dec 03, 2025 at 02:27 AM · View previous versions
Dec 03, 2025 at 02:02 AM
p.3 #8A7V Announcement
NJPhotographer wrote:
The A7v looks amazing and pretty perfect for my uses. However, the A7iv still works great for me, so I'm in no hurry to buy the this new one.
same, my a7iv is still perfect for all my shooting needs, and i have the perfect apsc camera as well 6700 which is just as fast as the new m5, with the sigma 1.4 its a perfect sudo fast FF camera.
The A7v looks amazing and pretty perfect for my uses. However, the A7iv still works great for me, so I'm in no hurry to buy the this new one.
same, my a7iv is still perfect for all my shooting needs, and i have the perfect apsc camera as well 6700 which is just as fast as the new m5, with the sigma 1.4 its a perfect sudo fast FF camera.
Dec 03, 2025 at 02:16 AM
p.3 #9A7V Announcement
NJPhotographer wrote:
Unfortunately it still uses the antiquated body of the A7IV, no raised shutter button
Was considering a backup to A1 but at this time, a second hand A1 makes more sense to me, a strictly bird photographer
Pre-capture is nice to have and maybe new AI chip but the rest still lags behind the A1 IMHO"antiquated body of the A7IV"? What exactly is the problem with the A7IV body?
Have you shot with a Sony a1II or a9 IIII? Less of a square uncomfortable box and much more ergonomic.
deevee wrote
patotts wrote
If it had the same body as the a1 II with the updated grip and angled shutter button, I would buy one of these even at MSRP.Was considering a backup to A1 but at this time, a second hand A1 makes more sense to me, a strictly bird photographer
Pre-capture is nice to have and maybe new AI chip but the rest still lags behind the A1 IMHO
Have you shot with a Sony a1II or a9 IIII? Less of a square uncomfortable box and much more ergonomic.
Dec 03, 2025 at 02:19 AM
p.3 #10A7V Announcement
Guest8967 wrote:
I know some might be disappointed by the video features, but as someone who primarily just shoots wildlife, this camera is a dream come true. I have an A7RV and didn't want to pay the 8000 CAD for the A1ii. Getting the A7V is a no brainer, pre-capture, no blackout, high DR electronic shutter, 16 stops of DR checks off every wish I had. It even qualified for Sony's student discount when I pre-ordered!
Now comes the question of do I sell my A7RV to buy a GFX100RF as a travel camera...
its going to have 16 stops due to shooting hdr or extreme NR. no one has tested it yet my guess it wont be as good as the 74
I know some might be disappointed by the video features, but as someone who primarily just shoots wildlife, this camera is a dream come true. I have an A7RV and didn't want to pay the 8000 CAD for the A1ii. Getting the A7V is a no brainer, pre-capture, no blackout, high DR electronic shutter, 16 stops of DR checks off every wish I had. It even qualified for Sony's student discount when I pre-ordered!
Now comes the question of do I sell my A7RV to buy a GFX100RF as a travel camera...
its going to have 16 stops due to shooting hdr or extreme NR. no one has tested it yet my guess it wont be as good as the 74
Dec 03, 2025 at 02:22 AM
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p.3 #11A7V Announcement
Agree about the, imo, more ergonomic shape of the newer models. Reminds me of old Nikon DSLR's especially the right infect finger placement.
I don't think it'll have the claimed DR, they never do, but it'll be slightly better than the previous body of course.
I don't think it'll have the claimed DR, they never do, but it'll be slightly better than the previous body of course.
Dec 03, 2025 at 03:01 AM
p.3 #12A7V Announcement
Outstanding wrote:
A midrange body will now cost $4.2k with tax in BC, Canada.
The A7 V is CAD$3883.95 with tax.
A midrange body will now cost $4.2k with tax in BC, Canada.
The A7 V is CAD$3883.95 with tax.
Dec 03, 2025 at 09:50 AM
p.3 #13A7V Announcement
patotts wrote:
NJPhotographer wrote
deevee wrote
patotts wrote
If it had the same body as the a1 II with the updated grip and angled shutter button, I would buy one of these even at MSRP.Was considering a backup to A1 but at this time, a second hand A1 makes more sense to me, a strictly bird photographer
Pre-capture is nice to have and maybe new AI chip but the rest still lags behind the A1 IMHO
I somewhat prefer the A1 grip…
The A1ii / A9iii force you to hold it a certain way
Dec 03, 2025 at 11:44 AM
p.3 #14A7V Announcement
Cliff L. wrote:
The A7 V is CAD$3883.95 with tax.
Unless someone is dead set on supporting a BC retailer and pays the extra 7%.
I'm okay supporting my Ontario store for 7% savings
Outstanding wrote
A midrange body will now cost $4.2k with tax in BC, Canada.Unless someone is dead set on supporting a BC retailer and pays the extra 7%.
I'm okay supporting my Ontario store for 7% savings
Dec 03, 2025 at 12:13 PM
p.3 #16A7V Announcement
pasblues wrote:
Will it work with third party lenses at 30fps?
No.
Will it work with third party lenses at 30fps?
No.
Dec 03, 2025 at 01:34 PM
p.3 #17A7V Announcement
Ordered one. Would love to see if there are low light high ISO improvements compared to the IV.
That and the battery life is the only thing I was a little disappointed over coming from the III.
That and the battery life is the only thing I was a little disappointed over coming from the III.
Dec 03, 2025 at 03:55 PM
p.3 #18A7V Announcement
Glad to see the a7rv tilt/ flip screen trickle down.
Dec 03, 2025 at 04:07 PM
p.3 #19A7V Announcement
I've been an A7iv owner since 2021 and I'm going to pass on this camera. If I was a sports or wild life photographer I could get excited by the A7v, but the video capabilities not going beyond 4K is disappointing. As has been mentioned by a few others I can't believe that they are still using the old 3.69 million dot EVF. How much added cost or battery consumption would it have meant if they had given us 5.76 or 9.44 million dots? I'll bet it was pretty miniscule.
Dec 04, 2025 at 12:56 AM
p.3 #20A7V Announcement
B Landau wrote:
I've been an A7iv owner since 2021 and I'm going to pass on this camera. If I was a sports or wild life photographer I could get excited by the A7v, but the video capabilities not going beyond 4K is disappointing. As has been mentioned by a few others I can't believe that they are still using the old 3.69 million dot EVF. How much added cost or battery consumption would it have meant if they had given us 5.76 or 9.44 million dots? I'll bet it was pretty miniscule.
A7V is basically a budget A1ii with less resolution.
There is enough packed into the A7V to probably dissuade a good number of potential A1ii sales or A7S/FX. Sony had to save a few bullet points to differentiate their product lines.
Don't think it is about minuscule incremental costs. There are other features like improved body/grip of the A9iii/A1ii that didn't get trickled down. Sony basically gave A7V everything important for "most" entry level consumer but not every luxury. They want to nudge you up the product tier.
I've been an A7iv owner since 2021 and I'm going to pass on this camera. If I was a sports or wild life photographer I could get excited by the A7v, but the video capabilities not going beyond 4K is disappointing. As has been mentioned by a few others I can't believe that they are still using the old 3.69 million dot EVF. How much added cost or battery consumption would it have meant if they had given us 5.76 or 9.44 million dots? I'll bet it was pretty miniscule.
A7V is basically a budget A1ii with less resolution.
There is enough packed into the A7V to probably dissuade a good number of potential A1ii sales or A7S/FX. Sony had to save a few bullet points to differentiate their product lines.
Don't think it is about minuscule incremental costs. There are other features like improved body/grip of the A9iii/A1ii that didn't get trickled down. Sony basically gave A7V everything important for "most" entry level consumer but not every luxury. They want to nudge you up the product tier.
Dec 04, 2025 at 05:36 AM