p.1 #1 · Camera stolen from package - What to do next?
I bought a camera here from @shotbybusch. The package was delivered on Saturday, but all that was in the box was some bubble wrap and an empty box for the extra battery. Seems the side seam of the box split at some point during shipment, and maybe someone at UPS fished out the contents.
Seller has opened a claim with UPS, but they are not likely to cover much of the cost of the camera, assuming additional insurance wasn't added to the shipment. I thankfully paid with PayPal G&S and have opened a claim there as well. Would PayPal protection cover me in the case of a lost package?
Any advice on what else can be done at this point?
Really bummed as I've been looking forward to this camera! I even bought a replacement OEM body cap for it already since it was coming with a 3rd party one. I was even about to get a thumb grip ahead of time. Glad I didn't go crazy on other accessories yet!
p.1 #3 · Camera stolen from package - What to do next?
Yes. PayPal buyer protection should get you a refund. Generally, shipping insurance protects the seller. In this case, PayPal will probably issue a refund to you from the seller's account, and the seller would cover his loss with the shipping insurance. If the seller doesn't have shipping insurance, they're probably going to be out of pocket for your refund, and with no camera.
p.1 #5 · Camera stolen from package - What to do next?
At this point UPS feels less like a delivery service and more like Amazon's overworked return department. No wonder some of them seem so burned out. It's hard to keep pride in a job that's turned into hauling boxes back and forth for someone else's empire.
Sorry about your loss.
This dude also lost his M11 Safari with UPS.
p.1 #6 · Camera stolen from package - What to do next?
RustyRus wrote:
Sender should have used insured shipping-
What type of camera was it?
jcolwell wrote:
Yes. PayPal buyer protection should get you a refund. Generally, shipping insurance protects the seller. In this case, PayPal will probably issue a refund to you from the seller's account, and the seller would cover his loss with the shipping insurance. If the seller doesn't have shipping insurance, they're probably going to be out of pocket for your refund, and with no camera.
ab7638 wrote:
The shipper is responsible for insuring the package he mailed/shipped to you PayPal should honor your claim. Take pictures!!!
It was a Leica M10
Seller used the absolute cheapest UPS option, unfortunately. He seemed trustworthy and everything appeared to check out, and I was so close to just paying with F&F. Now I've learned to always use G&S, and I'm glad I'm not learning this the hard way!
Edit: I've been on the fence for the past few months about upgrading from my M240. Finally decided to go for it and this happens
p.1 #7 · Camera stolen from package - What to do next?
dumplinknet wrote:
At this point UPS feels less like a delivery service and more like Amazon's overworked return department. No wonder some of them seem so burned out. It's hard to keep pride in a job that's turned into hauling boxes back and forth for someone else's empire.
Sorry about your loss.
This dude also lost his M11 Safari with UPS.
I think he's also based in the SF area....
Wow, such a crazy story. I suppose I should hold off on any big-ticket shipments until after the holidays.
p.1 #8 · Camera stolen from package - What to do next?
specLegacy wrote:
It was a Leica M10
Seller used the absolute cheapest UPS option, unfortunately. He seemed trustworthy and everything appeared to check out, and I was so close to just paying with F&F. Now I've learned to always use G&S, and I'm glad I'm not learning this the hard way!
Edit: I've been on the fence for the past few months about upgrading from my M240. Finally decided to go for it and this happens
That sucks-
I have no idea why you wouldn’t pay for shipping- insurance seems like a poor choice on the sellers part.
p.1 #9 · Camera stolen from package - What to do next?
From what I know UPS ground saver and FedEx ground are actually contract carriers -- lowest bidder scenario.
Sorry to read about the theft. Sometimes things happen; live and learn.
p.1 #10 · Camera stolen from package - What to do next?
Buyer and seller need to agree beforehand on how much insurance is needed if any. Everyone wants a deal, so agreeing on the insurance amount (and additional cost) is critical as is the type of shipping - ground, next day air, signature required, etc.
For something like the M10, I would add / ask for at least $1,000 worth of insurance as that's enough to trigger a deeper investigation by the carrier in case of issues.
p.1 #11 · Camera stolen from package - What to do next?
That sucks-
I have no idea why you wouldn’t pay for shipping- insurance seems like a poor choice on the sellers part.
Also no signature required? Crazy man
Weird thing is that he asked if I wanted signature confirmation, and I said yes. When I found that he used UPS Ground Saver, I asked again whether I would need to sign for the package. He said I would, even though signature confirmation is not even an option with Ground Saver!
p.1 #13 · Camera stolen from package - What to do next?
specLegacy wrote:
Weird thing is that he asked if I wanted signature confirmation, and I said yes. When I found that he used UPS Ground Saver, I asked again whether I would need to sign for the package. He said I would, even though signature confirmation is not even an option with Ground Saver!
I would ask him directly for a refund- he should fight UPS-
Especially if you asked for a signature with it. This is on the seller and I would 100% ask him for the refund. I will take all of that correspondence and send it to Paypal-
He should do the right thing and refund you though. This burden is on him IMO.
p.1 #14 · Camera stolen from package - What to do next?
This kind of situation is tough. You choose a reliable carrier like UPS, which rarely loses or tampers with packages, and take the calculated risk of using little or no insurance. Most of the time it works out perfectly, but every now and then, luck turns the other way. Paying extra for full insurance often feels unnecessary until one of these rare cases happens.
I'm really sorry this happened to you, especially since you were excited to finally try that new camera you have been dreaming about. At this stage, the responsibility lies with the seller. He handled the shipment, so it should have been insured, and he is ultimately responsible for making things right if it goes missing or is damaged. The only exception would be if it was clearly discussed beforehand and the seller gave you the option to add full or partial insurance, but you chose to proceed without it.
p.1 #15 · Camera stolen from package - What to do next?
As others have said, the burden is on the seller, no different than if you ordered from Amazon and got an empty box. Because the seller (or both of you) cheaped out and didn't fully insure it, you're now going to have to rely on Paypal to hopefully recoup the costs.
p.1 #16 · Camera stolen from package - What to do next?
I have easily had 400 transactions over the last 15 years buying and selling lenses on line. Many on FM, other form and eBay.
In all those transactions, I’ve had two lenses lost entirely and one lens damaged. Last fall, USPS lost a GM 35 1.4 that I shipped to another member. A similar thing happened years ago with a canon FD 85 1.2.
In both instances, once it was clear the lens was somehow lost, I refunded the seller. And then took a couple months for me to work through the annoying process of getting my full refund as I had both lenses insured. But as the seller, it is my responsibility.
If the seller does not want to pay insurance, he/she can’t have the benefit/safety of insurance. PayPal biases to buyers if the case is even relatively clean cut.
p.1 #17 · Camera stolen from package - What to do next?
I wonder if it is like a big exclamation mark on the shipping documents when a valuable camera is correctly insured and sent via any shipping company. We are hearing in recent times of more and more cases like this that valuable camera gear "disappears" after it was handed over to the shipping store. I was not concerned > 5-10 years ago to send a Leica M film camera to a domestic repair service for CLA via UPS - now I certainly would be! It is one thing to get reimbursed when being fully insured - but even with monetary value taken care of, the sentimental or uniqueness level someone has with a camera cannot be replaced.
p.1 #19 · Camera stolen from package - What to do next?
Seems like multiple points of failure on the seller side:
1. Boxes rarely split unless fragile box was used + inadequate tape + overloaded contents
2. Seller didn't provide requested signature service, then misrepresented it
3. Seller stated he is a usual eBay seller and didn't provide his eBay handle for cross reference
4. He would have saved $500 by not selling on eBay and denied spending under 1% of value for coverage
5. Paypal requires items above $750 to require signature confirmation to be eligible for Seller Protection
If you used a credit card to pay via Paypal GS then there is the option of dispute via "Item Not Received" separately through your CC company. You can do tandem claims in the case the seller doesn't resolve the situation directly.
I'd also check the marked weight on intake for the label and see if there are any discrepancies (like if it was too light or too heavy for M10) in the off-chance something else was going on.
retrofocus wrote:
I wonder if it is like a big exclamation mark on the shipping documents when a valuable camera is correctly insured and sent via any shipping company. We are hearing in recent times of more and more cases like this that valuable camera gear "disappears" after it was handed over to the shipping store. I was not concerned > 5-10 years ago to send a Leica M film camera to a domestic repair service for CLA via UPS - now I certainly would be! It is one thing to get reimbursed when being fully insured - but even with monetary value taken care of, the sentimental or uniqueness level someone has with a camera cannot be replaced. ...Show more →
It's a good idea to opt in to hide the postage label value on any high ticket items. But it's usually it's multiple factors involved, otherwise the hundreds of camera business stores would have their items go missing often enough that no one would buy online.
? Crazy man