I don’t know why the OP is wasting his time with all these plasticky Nikon cameras and lenses. D6 / Z9, etc. are all inferior to a real metal camera like the F3. He really needs one of those paired up with an all metal MF supertele. The all metal quality will outlive him. Nothing today can match that quality. Made in Japan metal is where it is.
OOOOOH Bernie!!! HA! Im not falling into the trap with the gotcha highlights.. I DO own a few China lenses..but have used plenty to know there IS a difference..NO im not debating part by part!... I do own the 85 1.2 and say it does preform very well...although WAY to much plastic for me..(I guess thats the cheapening of things part.. yeah I know "OH" Its lighter! Give me a break!)..anyway I have had others such as the disposable 200-500!.. very loose focus ring, sloppy tolerances, lens creep ect.. its a pile of SHXX...
rand17 wrote:
Does anyone know if Nikon has the same standards as Canon, As this video below depicts since Nikon fled to China??
For last 6 Years I have maybe 7 lenses
Six (6) Nikon Z lenses and only one Canon RF 70-200 f4. I keep them inside safety box. Sometimes during the winter tt can be more humid at home...And guess what - only Canon lens get strange fog inside and I have to send it back to Canon for repair and still received back not perfect lens ( something was wrong with a coat or whatever they put on glass elements.
All my Nikon lenses are fine until this day...
I sold my Canon before it it brake without use and won't be able to sell it.
rand17 wrote:
OOOOOH Bernie!!! HA! Im not falling into the trap with the gotcha highlights.. I DO own a few China lenses..but have used plenty to know there IS a difference..NO im not debating part by part!... I do own the 85 1.2 and say it does preform very well...although WAY to much plastic for me..(I guess thats the cheapening of things part.. yeah I know "OH" Its lighter! Give me a break!)..anyway I have had others such as the disposable 200-500!.. very loose focus ring, sloppy tolerances, lens creep ect.. its a pile of SHXX...
So in short your views on Nikon and on China are the result of one sample of a 10 years old 2,000 US$ lens not being built to the standards of 10,000 US$ ones (nowadays 15,000 US$)…
Have you at all considered the possibility that;
- a sample of 1 is a bit small to generalize?
- cheaper lenses are cheaper for a reason?
- all lenses degrade with time depending on how they are used (especially if you respect your equipment as badly as you seem to treat fellow photographers per your behavior in this thread)?
- all manufacturers have no choice but to build cheaper lenses in cheaper ways?
- the Nikon standards, regardless of manufacturing location, may have changed btwn 10 years ago and today?
Vinnie_VdB wrote:
@rand17@ it is getting annoying how you not read and listen to the arguments that counter your beliefs. China is a country of 1,4 billion people compared to just 340 million in the US. Sure enough do they produced and in some case still produce crappy products but they equally give us products out of the box. All cooled dedicated astro cameras are made in China with Sony sensors (ZWO, Touptek, Player One, QHY, ...). Let us stay in the world of astrophotography. A company like ZWO gave the community products that made our life so much easier and for a very economical price. There is hardly any European or American company that innovate in that market.
Back to Nikon. The proof of the pudding is in the eating. I own 4 Nikon bodies and 9 Z mount Nikon lenses. All these items do have perform to my standards exceptionally well. Some are made in Japan, others in Thailand and in China but you can't see the "made in China" on my photos.
I can't speak for Canon but shot 2 years with Sony but when I read feedback from various users on their brand camera is it hardly about a technical shortcoming but many times on what features they like to see and sometimes on a control issue after a FW update.
Anyway, love it or hate it but many Chinese companies (either Chinese or foreign owned) work according the highest standards and you can doubt on those standards but you need more than just your personal opinion but you need to bring facts to the table on why you believe what you do.
And last, Nikon nearly went under? Give me a break. Nikon is part of the Mitsubishi keiretsu and guess this is new for you are you otherwise would have not made that statement of Nikon nearly going under. Look it up, you might learn a thing or 2 ;-)...Show more →
Nikon are an independent publicly traded company. Being part of the Mitsubishi keiretsu means nothing.
rand17 wrote:
Ok Mr Bernie I got one for you.. what's a better value and overall better lens...
800 6.3 Z or the 800 5.6 FL with the 1.25 tele....
I am not sure what you are asking here.
I haven't owned either of these lenses, but I had the chance to use the 800mm f6.3 S and found its build quality very similar to that of my 400mm f2.8 S TC. And it's weight is obviously a total game changer for nature photography, just like the 400mm f4.5 that I used to own and the 600mm f6.3 S.
In terms of optical quality, i found the lens excellent. Being a PF lens, it does have some optical characteristics that differ a bit from classical optical formulas, but that's the cost to pay for the huge reduction in weight.
And has nothing to do with the lens being manufactured in China.
duncangr wrote:
Strange world we live in now where ideology trumps the facts - no pun intended.
Ideology unfortunately doesn't get you to the moon.
Nothing really "strange" in the world other than people scamming, robbing, cheating, stealing, harming one another... Maybe get back the grounded fundamentals of raising good respectful children with good values.. pretty simple actually.. I don't think thats a bad idea!
I own 8 Nikon Z S-line lenses with some of each made in all 3 countries and there’s absolutely no detectable difference in build quality, reliability, or mechanical performance among them, nor have I had to return any deliveries because of copy variance and getting a bad copy. I’ve shot Canon, Fuji, and Nikon at various times over the past 45 years and haven’t had any issues with any item and deem Nikon to be incredible designers for rough field craft. I’ve settled into Nikon as my sole system because I love their lens design and Z mount adaptability. China made, Thai made, or Japan made lens origin doesn’t matter - all are manufactured to Nikon’s high standards.
OMG did you seriously just post a Fro video like it's fact. Canon pays him to push their stuff. He's an influencer. Why do you think all the sudden he's "shooting Canon" yet he never seems to be published anywhere? His sports photos are terrible.
Nikon diversified it's production in order to survive during COVID. And now they have increasing sales YOY and much better margins. They produce in Thailand, China and Japan. I have products made in China all the time and they are better quality than anywhere else I source. And far far cheaper. The reason Apple produces it's products in China is because they have more engineers than any other country and tolerances on an iPhone are insane. China surpassed Japan a long time ago in electronics. Only very high end products that are hand made need to be made in Japan (aka super teles).
jwolfe wrote:
OMG did you seriously just post a Fro video like it's fact. Canon pays him to push their stuff. He's an influencer. Why do you think all the sudden he's "shooting Canon" yet he never seems to be published anywhere? His sports photos are terrible.
Nikon diversified it's production in order to survive during COVID. And now they have increasing sales YOY and much better margins. They produce in Thailand, China and Japan. I have products made in China all the time and they are better quality than anywhere else I source. And far far cheaper. The reason Apple produces it's products in China is because they have more engineers than any other country and tolerances on an iPhone are insane. China surpassed Japan a long time ago in electronics. Only very high end products that are hand made need to be made in Japan (aka super teles).
There should be a No-Fro rule on this site....Show more →
NO!! I think FRO is an idiot and a crook and F-ed over his long time friend Greg!!! I dont take anything he says for fact!.. what peaked my interest was the Canon factory and there testing they do... that's it!
And FYI Nikon was having trouble surviving well before covid...
rand17 wrote:
NO!! I think FRO is an idiot and a crook and F-ed over his long time friend Greg!!! I dont take anything he says for fact!.. what peaked my interest was the Canon factory and there testing they do... that's it!
And FYI Nikon was having trouble surviving well before covid...
Not at all. Keeping repeating the same lies won’t make them true. Nikon only lost money during one year during covid. Go check their yearly reports. It’s all public information.
They were sitting on top of a lot of cash, a huge installed base of highly satisfied customers including many professionals, a lenses line up way more comprehensive than Sony’s,…
But what I fail to understand is why someone as convinced as you are for the best part of a decade that Nikon is doomed would even consider using their equipment?
bernardl wrote:
Not at all. Keeping repeating the same lies won’t make them true. Nikon only lost money during one year during covid. Go check their yearly reports. It’s all public information.
They were sitting on top of a lot of cash, a huge installed base of highly satisfied customers including many professionals, a lenses line up way more comprehensive than Sony’s,…
But what I fail to understand is why someone as convinced as you are for the best part of a decade that Nikon is doomed would even consider using their equipment?
