flash wrote:
in the hand the Hasselblad always feels more agile.
+1
In store demo, pick up the Hassy, pop a few frames. Walked over to the Fuji counter picked one up, had no desire to shoot with it.
The Fuji hit me with the same "brick" feel that the Sony and Lumix S1 bodies do whenever I picked them up. I CAN shoot with anything, but that's a different thing from what I WANT to shoot with.
In today's realm, the micro-hair splittin on technical matters (guilty, as charged) can be obliterated by what you enjoy shooting with.
If someone likes shooting the Fuji, super. If they like shooting the Hassy, super. If you like it, shoot it. If you don't like, don't shoot it.
Personally, every time I've gone on spec / price > explore the MF Fuji's ... I pick one up, and quickly set it back down. I haven't had the chance to pick up an GFX100RF, so it might be different, but that's a different animal altogether as a fixed lens, so it might be different.
I get folks that dig on a aperture ring (I do too), and that makes for a bit of a conundrum (imo) between the Hassy vs. Fuji glass.
That, and the diff between focal plane shutter vs. leaf shutter.
If folks have ideations about adapting non-native glass ... the leaf shutter requires e-shutter only. Whereas with the Fuji, the focal plane shutter affords a mechanical shutter with adapted glass.
Two different tools, with some different ethos imbedded in them. It is that understanding of the ethos (same goes for shooting Leica M's) that provides for good alignment with the user.
When we get into the "better" thing ... I'm inclined to think that the "best" is when we are aligned with our gear. That, moreover than this gear is better than that gear. Which always begs the question of "better at what" in a quid pro quo kind of way.
To Gordon's point ... if you're looking for the user interface agility / comfort / joy of use as part of your ethos, keep that in mind when you can't find it on the spec sheet or the post-processed files you are comparing.
Wearing ill fitting shoes makes for a long walk, no matter how good they look.
In store demo, pick up the Hassy, pop a few frames. Walked over to the Fuji counter picked one up, had no desire to shoot with it.
The Fuji hit me with the same "brick" feel that the Sony and Lumix S1 bodies do whenever I picked them up. I CAN shoot with anything, but that's a different thing from what I WANT to shoot with.
In today's realm, the micro-hair splittin on technical matters (guilty, as charged) can be obliterated by what you enjoy shooting with.
If someone likes shooting the Fuji, super. If they like shooting the Hassy, super. If you like it, shoot it. If you don't like, don't shoot it.
Personally, every time I've gone on spec / price > explore the MF Fuji's ... I pick one up, and quickly set it back down. I haven't had the chance to pick up an GFX100RF, so it might be different, but that's a different animal altogether as a fixed lens, so it might be different.
I get folks that dig on a aperture ring (I do too), and that makes for a bit of a conundrum (imo) between the Hassy vs. Fuji glass.
That, and the diff between focal plane shutter vs. leaf shutter.
If folks have ideations about adapting non-native glass ... the leaf shutter requires e-shutter only. Whereas with the Fuji, the focal plane shutter affords a mechanical shutter with adapted glass.
Two different tools, with some different ethos imbedded in them. It is that understanding of the ethos (same goes for shooting Leica M's) that provides for good alignment with the user.
When we get into the "better" thing ... I'm inclined to think that the "best" is when we are aligned with our gear. That, moreover than this gear is better than that gear. Which always begs the question of "better at what" in a quid pro quo kind of way.
To Gordon's point ... if you're looking for the user interface agility / comfort / joy of use as part of your ethos, keep that in mind when you can't find it on the spec sheet or the post-processed files you are comparing.
Wearing ill fitting shoes makes for a long walk, no matter how good they look.
Just curious as to which GFX body you tried? While my GFX 100S does not feel "special" in any way (like a classic camera or even a Leica SL2), for me it is extremely comfortable and "agile". The grip feels perfect for my large sized hands. With the SL2, the camera itself felt "special" but it was not as comfortable or "agile" in use over extended periods by comparison. Yes, the GFX 100S feels more like an electronic device (ala Sony) rather than a tool that evokes the nostalgia of using a classic camera (though my old Canon T90 was the same in this respect vs my Nikon F2 way back when) but the 100S is ergonomically well designed imo. That said, I have yet to hold the XD series Hasselblads. Other system differences beyond the feel of the body likely mean I probably will not own one.
I don’t mind the GFX cameras. I have 4 of them after all (GFX100ii, 100S, 100Sii and RF). Leaving the RF aside they fell like any decent normal mirrorless camera. They can feel front heavy with some lenses and I‘m not.a huge fan of the joystick (I put Sugru on mine to improve them). But I’ve carried them around for days on end with no issues. I think the point above is that *they’re fine* which is really faint praise.
The X cameras are an ergonomic masterclass. I think the X1D series is *slightly* better. But outweighed by the addition of IBIS in the latter series. The X grips are just about perfect for all hands large and small. K ( my soon to be wife) likes the X series grip as much as I do. Lenses generally don’t drag the camera forward as much. The grip is just high enough so your pinky has a great spot to rest. You grip the Hasselblad with a lot less effort than the Fujifilm bodies which leads to less hand fatigue and a sensation of less size and weight. The grip is angled so your wrist is straighter in normal use which means more comfort for all day shooting. Add the best menus in the business and then pick up a Fuji and of course it feels *meh…*. That doesn’t make the Fuji cameras bad.
The Hasselblad can be the best handling camera on the planet but if you need video or a 500mm you’re plain out of luck. The results can be very similar but the philosophies around handling and usage are basically opposite.
If you’re not chasing speed one could try an X1Dii and a 38mm as an M replacement and be very very happy having one in the hand all day. Absolutely no lens on any GFX can replicate how that feels in hand. It might be slightly larger then the GFX RF but it also sorts all the problems with that camera as you don’t need grips or thumb rests or weird filter set ups. It might be the most comfortable camera/lens carry on the planet.
Don’t have experience for X2D or later but X1D and X1DIi are leave many things to be desired for me. Shutter delay, AF ( at the same time manual focus by wire not working good), EVF (optical corner smear), long black frame between exposure, laud and slow focus. All these leave me cold. It does have best hand hold feeling and very large display with great UI design, an European feature shared with Leica too, premium material used throughout that you can feel you are using a luxury product.
It is must be personal that i can’t stand with most of the flaws i mentioned that I sold the system within a month.
Now back to Fuji, menu system is one of worst, handholding feeling is similar to many MILC system. GFX100II actually has really great build quality a cut above most of modern high end Sony, Panasonic S1R2, Nikon Z7x I used. However, in hand, I feel it is a step below Nikon Z8 in term of handhold ergo and build tightness and it feel heavy and uncomfortable to hold, worse than Hasselblad X for sure.
Ergo wise, Fuji is fine as it gave enough customization to the dial that I never need dive in menu and build quality wise, it is on par with any top brand out there. Their lenses are ugly though compare to Hasselblad.
I don’t feel the color difference when I had both Fuji 50s and X1D2, maybe because I use Lightroom.
For now, I use GFX1002 with only 1 Fuji native lens 35-70, rest all adapting. This is the key decision factor for me to stay with Fuji and overall I am happy for what they did: incredible EVF, great ergo in general and lots of film simulation to select for JPEG.
flash wrote:
I have not found this to be true. The original zoom, 21, 30, 65, 90 120 and 135 were all the equal or more of their GFX counterparts. The new zoom, 25, 28, 75, 90 are as well. What the HB was always lacking was a set of zooms that could mean less weight and lens swapping in the field. That is now changing as well. The 35-100 and GFX 45-100 are essentially the same in IQ.
Are you talking about native Hasselblad lenses or adapted lenses like EF lenses? I was responding about adapted lenses.
flash wrote:
If you’re not chasing speed one could try an X1Dii and a 38mm as an M replacement and be very very happy having one in the hand all day.
Gordon
You probably meant not M, but Leica Q with 28 mm. I would really like to replace the Voigtlander Super Wide-Heliar f/4,5 15mm v.2 on the M system with a Hasselblad lens (21mm or 20-35mm) of comparable weight. But the difference in weight is 3.5 times (170 g and 600 g). Unfortunately. I would gladly consider light (but good) lenses with F4 or even F5.6 for architecture, but Hasselblad does not make them.
cbass wrote:
Are you talking about native Hasselblad lenses or adapted lenses like EF lenses? I was responding about adapted lenses.
Yes. I was comparing native to native.
---------------------------------------------
Ne314satel wrote:
You probably meant not M, but Leica Q with 28 mm. I would really like to replace the Voigtlander Super Wide-Heliar f/4,5 15mm v.2 on the M system with a Hasselblad lens (21mm or 20-35mm) of comparable weight. But the difference in weight is 3.5 times (170 g and 600 g). Unfortunately. I would gladly consider light (but good) lenses with F4 or even F5.6 for architecture, but Hasselblad does not make them.
No. I meant M (you could also say Q3-28 with the X2Dii). The manual focus experience with the V lenses is so good that you could easily Shoot an X1Dii like an M1 with EVF attached. On the X2D is better again but you gain weight and add IBIS and resolution. The X1Dii is sublime in the hand with the 38 or 55V lenses attached. No grips, half cases of thumbies required.
Neither M, SL or X offers PC lenses. You need GFX for that (or EF adapted to the SL). But the M and SL’s offer PC corrections in camera. As for small and light, I’m not sure how much smaller you expect the XCD-P lenses to be? The 28, 45 and 75 are tiny for MF lenses and each one bests anything in small format at mid aperture’s. You could use the SL APO’s and get close but those a re waaaaay bigger.
flash wrote:
I do have the three cameras in hand (X2Dii, GFX100ii and GFX100sii) as well as the X2D and GFX100S. I only received the 35-100 on Friday , minutes before I went away for the week end so I haven’t really shot with it yet. For me, the addition of this zoom is the biggest thing I wanted, for travel use. The other X2D upgrades are nice but the lens was it for me.
But to answer a few preliminary questions.
5 Hasselblad has the best menus available and Fuji possibly the worst. HB’s main failing is you can’t change the top back buttons and the dials. I would like to customize the dials for use in manual with AUTO ISO.
7. Lenses. Fuji lenses are faster, cheaper, bigger and heavier than the nearest HB equivalent. They have aperture rings (yay!).
Hi Gordon, just a note on a few items. You can change all buttons and dials on the Hasselblad X2D II with the exception of the buttons on the upper rear dedicated to AE-L and AF-D.
And most of the newer Hasselblad lenses past first generation XCD have a control ring that can be programmed for manual aperture control.
domezoo wrote:
Hi Gordon, just a note on a few items. You can change all buttons and dials on the Hasselblad X2D II with the exception of the buttons on the upper rear dedicated to AE-L and AF-D.
And most of the newer Hasselblad lenses past first generation XCD have a control ring that can be programmed for manual aperture control.
Steve Hendrix
www.captureintegration.com
Nothing I said is incorrect.
You can't change the dial functionality. You can program the dial push function (but not to EV compensation - see below), which is a button, essentially but not what the dials do when you rotate them. Nor can you change the direction of function when rotating them. You can on the Fuji (and every other brand as well) but not the Hasselblad.
I have every X camera and XCD lens ever made here, except the 907x/100C. I noted the two buttons that can't be changed. Does that not imply the others can be? Personally, I'd like those to be customisable as well. I don't need the exposure lock button. Hilariously, you can program any other button to be the AE-L or AF-D button but you can't program the AE-L or AF-D button to any other function. Is it that important you need either of these twice on the camera?
My main gripe is you can't program the dial functionality. The problem is more evident now we have auto ISO in manual and you can't change one of the dials (rotation) to EV comp (you can have this on the lens ring, which feels weird). A button press is required. Have fun with that one in gloves. Nor can you program the push function to EV comp on the dial push settings. You HAVE to reach for the little button on the top of the camera or change the lens ring to EV comp. Bizarrely, you can set a dial button push to EV comp reset but not EV comp.
So, it's physically impossible to have front dial as shutter, lens ring as aperture and rear dial as EV comp with auto ISO.
It's even more cumbersome on the 907x where the options are less limited.
The P lenses and every original XCD lens do not have the ring whereas every GFX lens does have one except the 35-70. That's 6 out of 16 lenses with the ring. You can buy a 5 year old GFX lens and have full functionality. I just pointed this out for the uninitiated. That's all.
Also, aperture rings have hard stops, which makes them easier to use instinctively. Plus, the GFX dials can be customised to have SS, AV and EV/ISO set up a bit better for the 35-70. Does anyone actually program the lens rings to anything other than aperture anyway?
You can't change the dial functionality. You can program the dial push function (but not to EV compensation - see below), which is a button, essentially but not what the dials do when you rotate them. Nor can you change the direction of function when rotating them. You can on the Fuji (and every other brand as well) but not the Hasselblad.
I have every X camera and XCD lens ever made here, except the 907x/100C. I noted the two buttons that can't be changed. Does that not imply the others can be? Personally, I'd like those to be customisable as well. I don't need the exposure lock button. Hilariously, you can program any other button to be the AE-L or AF-D button but you can't program the AE-L or AF-D button to any other function. Is it that important you need either of these twice on the camera?
My main gripe is you can't program the dial functionality. The problem is more evident now we have auto ISO in manual and you can't change one of the dials (rotation) to EV comp (you can have this on the lens ring, which feels weird). A button press is required. Have fun with that one in gloves. Nor can you program the push function to EV comp on the dial push settings. You HAVE to reach for the little button on the top of the camera or change the lens ring to EV comp. Bizarrely, you can set a dial button push to EV comp reset but not EV comp.
So, it's physically impossible to have front dial as shutter, lens ring as aperture and rear dial as EV comp with auto ISO.
It's even more cumbersome on the 907x where the options are less limited.
The P lenses and every original XCD lens do not have the ring whereas every GFX lens does have one except the 35-70. That's 6 out of 16 lenses with the ring. You can buy a 5 year old GFX lens and have full functionality. I just pointed this out for the uninitiated. That's all.
Also, aperture rings have hard stops, which makes them easier to use instinctively. Plus, the GFX dials can be customised to have SS, AV and EV/ISO set up a bit better for the 35-70. Does anyone actually program the lens rings to anything other than aperture anyway?
Ah, I see what you mean, you're referring to actually changing the behavior of the dial itself, sorry I missed that. Yes, I agree, that's a missed boat by Hasselblad that almost all other cameras are on board with. You're correct, the dials have alternative functionality when pressed, but the default behavior of the dials themselves can't be changed for now.
Regarding manual aperture ring control, I was not making any statement to older lenses not having that capability, just that the newer generation lenses do (most of them). Since you mentioned Fuji lenses having an aperture dial ("yay!") without any mention of the Hasselblad lenses that do, I felt it beneficial to mention that some of them do, and future lenses I expect will as well. And they do have click stops for the apertures.
It used to be simple Aperture ,Shutter speed, ISO and or course EC but that seems not what the Hasselblad engineers choose for you to adjust and shoot with...there must be another way that I just haven't figured out yet.
On the same subject Ive been adjusting my final tweak to the exposure with ISO and have been not only successful but very happy with the results of the final image.
PS I agree with the above that it should be up to the user as to what buttons do what functions
Pray for a B&W preset and for profile renaming.
2613pch wrote:
It used to be simple Aperture ,Shutter speed, ISO and or course EC but that seems not what the Hasselblad engineers choose for you to adjust and shoot with...there must be another way that I just haven't figured out yet.
On the same subject Ive been adjusting my final tweak to the exposure with ISO and have been not only successful but very happy with the results of the final image.
PS I agree with the above that it should be up to the user as to what buttons do what functions
Pray for a B&W preset and for profile renaming.
Yes, the default functions of the dials for the X2D II are lacking options. But the buttons (and the dial presses), while missing some things, do offer (so far) 36 different optional user preferences to choose from. I'd love to see more - BW presets would be great.
I'm genuinely surprised no one has brought up weather sealing yet – for me, it's been a real deciding factor.
I'm lucky enough to own both cameras and honestly love them each for different reasons. The Hasselblad is such a joy to carry around – that lightweight design and portability really make a difference. Image quality-wise, both are absolutely superb in my experience. I do use the Cobalt profiles to get the Fujifilm tuned to my preferences and a bit closer to that fantastic HNCS look from Hasselblad, but that's just personal taste.
In practice, I find myself reaching for the Hasselblad most of the time – it's a wonderful camera. But when I'm heading out on expeditions where I know I'll face challenging conditions (desert environments, fine sand, high humidity, heavy rain), I pack the Fujifilm without hesitation. I just don't feel confident putting the Hasselblad through those extremes.
The other consideration, and I say this with some sadness, is that my experiences with Hasselblad service for repairs or even thorough cleaning have been frustrating and time-consuming. Fujifilm has simply been more reliable in that department, which gives me peace of mind when I'm far from home.
Both are fantastic cameras – it really just depends on where you're taking them!
zhangyue wrote:
Don’t have experience for X2D or later but X1D and X1DIi are leave many things to be desired for me. Shutter delay, AF ( at the same time manual focus by wire not working good), EVF (optical corner smear), long black frame between exposure, laud and slow focus. All these leave me cold. It does have best hand hold feeling and very large display with great UI design, an European feature shared with Leica too, premium material used throughout that you can feel you are using a luxury product.
It is must be personal that i can’t stand with most of the flaws i mentioned that I sold the system within a month.
Now back to Fuji, menu system is one of worst, handholding feeling is similar to many MILC system. GFX100II actually has really great build quality a cut above most of modern high end Sony, Panasonic S1R2, Nikon Z7x I used. However, in hand, I feel it is a step below Nikon Z8 in term of handhold ergo and build tightness and it feel heavy and uncomfortable to hold, worse than Hasselblad X for sure.
Ergo wise, Fuji is fine as it gave enough customization to the dial that I never need dive in menu and build quality wise, it is on par with any top brand out there. Their lenses are ugly though compare to Hasselblad.
I don’t feel the color difference when I had both Fuji 50s and X1D2, maybe because I use Lightroom.
For now, I use GFX1002 with only 1 Fuji native lens 35-70, rest all adapting. This is the key decision factor for me to stay with Fuji and overall I am happy for what they did: incredible EVF, great ergo in general and lots of film simulation to select for JPEG. ...Show more →
The Fuji GFX100S II has a much better in-the-hand feel (to me) than does the GFX100 II. I bought and then sold the GFX100 II for exactly that reason, buying the GFX100S II instead, which I find much more comfortable to hand hold. The GFX100 II perhaps makes a better studio and tripod camera because of its tiltable and higher resolution EVF. But it is bigger, heavier, and larger in the hand.
You can't change the dial functionality. You can program the dial push function (but not to EV compensation - see below), which is a button, essentially but not what the dials do when you rotate them. Nor can you change the direction of function when rotating them. You can on the Fuji (and every other brand as well) but not the Hasselblad.
I have every X camera and XCD lens ever made here, except the 907x/100C. I noted the two buttons that can't be changed. Does that not imply the others can be? Personally, I'd like those to be customisable as well. I don't need the exposure lock button. Hilariously, you can program any other button to be the AE-L or AF-D button but you can't program the AE-L or AF-D button to any other function. Is it that important you need either of these twice on the camera?
My main gripe is you can't program the dial functionality. The problem is more evident now we have auto ISO in manual and you can't change one of the dials (rotation) to EV comp (you can have this on the lens ring, which feels weird). A button press is required. Have fun with that one in gloves. Nor can you program the push function to EV comp on the dial push settings. You HAVE to reach for the little button on the top of the camera or change the lens ring to EV comp. Bizarrely, you can set a dial button push to EV comp reset but not EV comp.
So, it's physically impossible to have front dial as shutter, lens ring as aperture and rear dial as EV comp with auto ISO.
It's even more cumbersome on the 907x where the options are less limited.
The P lenses and every original XCD lens do not have the ring whereas every GFX lens does have one except the 35-70. That's 6 out of 16 lenses with the ring. You can buy a 5 year old GFX lens and have full functionality. I just pointed this out for the uninitiated. That's all.
Also, aperture rings have hard stops, which makes them easier to use instinctively. Plus, the GFX dials can be customised to have SS, AV and EV/ISO set up a bit better for the 35-70. Does anyone actually program the lens rings to anything other than aperture anyway?
The Hasselblad form factor sounds excellent, but no EC wheel would be a deal-breaker for me. My entire shooting style is in manual with Auto ISO and with a wheel for aperture, a wheel for shutter, and a wheel for EC.
Although I am among the first not to look for tiny gear, the weight difference going Fuji is a lot and with every component. Fuji’s 110/2 is spectacular and reminds me of the old Hassy of the same specs. I have to imagine Hassy has one on the production list.
If I could pull together the funds, I would go Hassy for the reasons Gordon mentioned. While I like computers fine, I spend too much time editing and would love for images to just look right…or at least look just like the scene did, so I am not trying to coax files into remembering what they saw.
In the mean time, I am surprised that no one raves about the Q3 series and their colors. My Q3 43 replicates a scene just about perfectly, when using either Standard or Eternal profiles/Looks.
I bought a leather half case for 100II, the handling has been much better for me to hold it long time without hand strain. No matter what , I admit 100II is a hefty camera but not more so than Leica S I had.
I had 100S, call me minority, I am actually prefer and in love with 100II design. Whenever I pick it up, I got the urge to treat it seriously. It is like a modern digital Pentax67 or Mamiya 7 film camera in hand. I just love its industry look. Even compare with X2Dii that I have seen in person a few times during my recent China trip in Hasselblad brand store and last time, I was in Yosemite, one photographer using the X2Dii, we chatted a little bit and he showed very high interest on my setup S100cron on GFX100II
I don’t have the feeling that grass greener on other land right now. 100II with 35-70 iand 7.5 stop IBIS is an awesome setup for me. One day, once there are more clicks from Hasselblad clicked, I might get myself one but now I am happy.
chiron wrote:
The Fuji GFX100S II has a much better in-the-hand feel (to me) than does the GFX100 II. I bought and then sold the GFX100 II for exactly that reason, buying the GFX100S II instead, which I find much more comfortable to hand hold. The GFX100 II perhaps makes a better studio and tripod camera because of its tiltable and higher resolution EVF. But it is bigger, heavier, and larger in the hand.
