Steve Spencer wrote:
I think it does make sense to give the M11 another try, but rangefinder focussing isn't for everyone. It has it limitations and drawbacks and if you don't like it then there isn't a lot of reason to have an M camera, IMO. Although like I said earlier that all may change with the Leica M11V. You very well might be a great fit for that camera.
I think the reason several of us are suggesting other systems is that you have stated that you don't like the rangefinder and some of us (definitely me) think that if you don't like using the rangefinder then it probably makes senses for most people to move on from a Leica M camera and ditch the M11. We think that you aren't missing anything, but Fred may be right what you might be missing is just more practice using the rangefinder....Show more →
Maybe I wasn’t clear then: I like small manual focus lenses that allow me to zone focus (AF lenses that allow that are great too, but they’re rare and mostly not FF). And if I have to focus with MF lenses, I prefer a rangefinder over just about everything else provided I’m not shooting wide open. If I’m shooting wide open, I prefer Nikon’s solution. If I have time, I’m fine with zooming in, and the Leica SL series wins. There are some ifs and buts, but that’s the gist.
johnvanr wrote:
Maybe I wasn’t clear then: I like small manual focus lenses that allow me to zone focus (AF lenses that allow that are great too, but they’re rare and mostly not FF). And if I have to focus with MF lenses, I prefer a rangefinder over just about everything else provided I’m not shooting wide open. If I’m shooting wide open, I prefer Nikon’s solution. If I have time, I’m fine with zooming in, and the Leica SL series wins. There are some ifs and buts, but that’s the gist.
Zone focusing at 60mp high magnification is rough, unless maybe you’re using wides with a ton of DOF. Even f/8 can be narrow sometimes.
The 16 1.4 is a fun lens, and Fujifilm abandoning the clutch focus ring was a mistake, IMO. All they needed to fix was moving away from that slick black finish that always looks sweaty and smeared.
I think it was your musing about the X-E5 that made folks think you wanted alternative suggestions.
Preferring EVF to a rangefinder is reasonable. I favored rangefinders over the old SLR slap and still prefer them for their compact form factor with medium format film. The advantage is less clear vs. small mirrorless like the A7CR. We have lost various ‘M’ viewfinder magnification which really does make wearing glasses (0.58), fast 50mm & 90mm (0.85) easier and faster to shoot. In some ways, old film ‘M’ cameras can bring some of this back. I’m just guessing that the interim M11v will be a partial test bed for what is to come in the M12. A straight fixed magnification rangefinder may not have quite the appeal that it used to.
I have read up to P1#20 and realize I made a similar move some years ago, but it was due to losing one eye with a torn retina that could not be nursed back to good vision. At the time all docs told me my one good eye might go too, so I bought an M9 and printed everything so I could leave some examples of my vision for others to see. So far the good eye is still holding up. except this week I am once again told within 2-3 years my good eye will go very bad.
Thus soon after my eye issues surfaced, Pre Q, I sold ALL my 65 M lenses and 25 R lenses along with 4 M bodies (2 color and 2 mono). I was taking a trip to Prague and Morocco and got the XT-2 with 35 and 23 small f2.0 AF primes, the 56 f1.2 prime, the 50-140 and the 10-24 OIS. I used the later with success from the waist especially in Morocco. Once the M10 came out and a nice (then) EVF I got back half way into the M system.
Bottom line, I now have 4 M11 variants and use all 4 with the EVF since RF shooting is hit for miss due to my vision issues unless using zone focus where I believe the M shines for me. I like using some M lenses on my SL3 and SL3S, but it is big. I like the AF and EVF of the Q3 and now Q43, but often wish for more lens choice on that body.
Due to the huge UI of the Hasselblad (HB) 907X/100C I got it and one new 38V lens and like the more classic rendering of my older HB V lenses (from 40-500 and the 140-280). Sure they are huge and heavy, but offer me huge rewards while using them. They are for landscape and not street.
I do find the M or smaller Fuji X-T series are great for street. For me at this moment I am again looking for an alternative to the M, not only due to their current pricing, which I find over the top, but also due to no AF capabilities FOR ME.
Recently FM's comments about adapting a Sony A7CR with Techart II adapter has peaked my interest for using the 45 or more M and R lenses I have re-acquired. As you can probably tell I can spend if I want, but Leicas battery tariff fiasco in the USA has just turned me off against more Leica gear, the M-V included since it only gets me half way to what I really need, good EVF and AF, but not for around US$10k. So I just acquired the HB X2DII for US$7400 and find it TERRIFIC for my use. Sure it is not small, but it will not be a street camera for me at the moment though I may try it with the smallish 38V. What will be my street camera? To tell the truth I got assaulted in Paris and New York (my 2 favorite street environments to shoot) and as such I am currently turned off about street unless I go with Phil Penman one-on-one which kills the spontaneity of just heading out all day to shoot at will where I like to go. Since I lived in Paris for nearly 5 years I know the city and do not venture into so-so neighborhoods. I also worked in NYC for over 5 years and know the areas I like to shoot in and never venture into unknown neighborhoods there either. But lawlessness has stuck twice and I am alive.
I toyed with the first Sony E mount camera and hated the Sony menu system and sold it after a few months. As a result I am hesitant to even try the A7CR/Kolari/Techart approach to using my M lenses. It does hold appeal and I might try it, but after having used the small Fuji setup for some years I found it a great setup.
So to me in the end if I view and share images via the internet who needs a large sensor. If I print it is mainly 13x19 or 17x22 with the occasional 24x36 or 36x48. If you do not print then forget large sensor cameras as you are wasting your money. Heck even when I needed larger sizes from my heavily cropped XT-2 files I used Topaz 2x or 4x to give me what I wanted or needed. Also Fuji's M lens adapter to the XT system knows what 6bit coded lens you are using if I recall.
In the end it is not the gear, but what enspires you and how you use what you capture-internet or print that matters the most. We have so many good choices these days, it is what makes you feel good-forget others opinions and marketing hype. This is said from someone who has all too often bought into the latter two and has often regretted it and/or doubted his decisions.
Sorry so long, but an important discussion for all of us.
bwcolor wrote:
We have lost various ‘M’ viewfinder magnification which really does make wearing glasses (0.58), fast 50mm & 90mm (0.85) easier and faster to shoot. In some ways, old film ‘M’ cameras can bring some of this back. I’m just guessing that the interim M11v will be a test bed for what is to come in the M12. A straight fixed magnification rangefinder may not have quite the appeal that it used to.
I already use a diopter on my M. If my eyes were 20 years younger, all would be just dandy.
I have read up to P1#20 and realize I made a similar move some years ago, but it was due to losing one eye with a torn retina that could not be nursed back to good vision.
Thus, Pre Q, I sold ALL my 65 M lenses and 25 R lenses along with 4 M bodies (2 color and 2 mono). I was taking a trip to Prague and Morocco and got the XT-2 with 35 and 23 small f2.0 AF primes, the 56 f1.2 prime, the 50-140 and the 10-24 OIS. I used the later with success from the waist especially in Morocco. Once the M10 came out and a nice (then) EVF I got back half way into the M system.
Bottom line, I now have 4 M11 variants and use all 4 with the EVF since RF shooting is hit for miss due to my vision issues unless using zone focus where I believe the M shines for me. I like using some M lenses on my SL3 and SL3S, but it is big. I like the AF and EVF of the Q3 and now Q43, but often wish for more lens choice on that body.
Due to the huge UI of the Hasselblad (HB) 907X/100C I got it and one new 38V lens and like the more classic rendering of my older HB V lenses (from 40-500 and the 140-280). Sure they are huge and heavy, but offer me huge rewards while using them. They are for landscape and not street.
I do find the M or smaller Fuji X-T series are great for street. For me at this moment I am again looking for an alternative to the M, not only due to their current pricing, which I find over the top, but also due to no AF capabilities FOR ME.
Recently FM's comments about adapting a Sony A7CR with Techart II adapter has peaked my interest for using the 45 or more M and R lenses I have re-acquired. As you can probably tell I can spend if I want, but Leicas battery tariff fiasco in the USA has just turned me off against more Leica gear, the M-V included since it only gets me half way to what I really need, good EVF and AF, but not for around US$10k. So I just acquired the HB X2DII for US$7400 and find it TERRIFIC for my use. Sure it is not small, but it will not be a street camera for me. What will be my street camera? To tell the truth I got assaulted in Paris and New York (my 2 favorite street environments to shoot) and as such I am currently turned off about street unless I go with Phil Penman one-on-one which kills the sponaiety of just heading out all day to shoot at will where I like to go. Since I lived in Paris for nearly 5 years I know the city and do not venture into so-so neighborhoods. I also worked in NYC for over 5 years and know the areas I like to shoot in and never venture into unknown neighborhoods there either. But lawlessness has stuck twice and I am alive.
I toyed with the first Sony E mount camera and hated the Sony menu system and sold it after a few months. As a result I am hesitant to even try the A7CR/Kolari/Techart approach to using my M lenses. It does hold appeal and I might try it, but after having used the small Fuji setup for some years I found it a great setup.
So to me in the end if I view and share images via the internet who needs a large sensor. If I print it is mainly 13x19 or 17x22 with the occasional 24x36 or 36x48. If you do not print then forget large sensor camnareas as you are wasting your money. Heck even when I needed larger sizes from my heavily cropped XT-2 files I used Topaz 2x or 4x to give me what I wanted or needed.
In the end it is not the gear, but what ensures you and how you use what you capture-internet pr print. that matters the most. We have so many good choices these days, it is what makes you feel good-forget the bragging rights and marketing hype. This is said from someone who has all too often bought into the latter two and has often regretted it and/or doubted his decisions.
Sorry so long. Just my 2cents....Show more →
Wonderful response to such life altering vision issues. For me, the X2Dii/38v might be the perfect street camera when shooting in Japan/Korea.. safer locals. I’ve avoided Western Europe since Covid due to my concerns regarding street safety. You can insure the cameras, but that doesn’t negate the bad memories/trauma. Thanks for sharing..
I have read up to P1#20 and realize I made a similar move some years ago, but it was due to losing one eye with a torn retina that could not be nursed back to good vision. At the time all docs told me my one good eye might go too, so I bought an M9 and priced everything so I could leave some examples of my vision for others to see. So far the good eye is still holding up. except this week I am once again told within 2-3 years my good eye will go very bad.
Thus soon after my eye issues surfaced, Pre Q, I sold ALL my 65 M lenses and 25 R lenses along with 4 M bodies (2 color and 2 mono). I was taking a trip to Prague and Morocco and got the XT-2 with 35 and 23 small f2.0 AF primes, the 56 f1.2 prime, the 50-140 and the 10-24 OIS. I used the later with success from the waist especially in Morocco. Once the M10 came out and a nice (then) EVF I got back half way into the M system.
Bottom line, I now have 4 M11 variants and use all 4 with the EVF since RF shooting is hit for miss due to my vision issues unless using zone focus where I believe the M shines for me. I like using some M lenses on my SL3 and SL3S, but it is big. I like the AF and EVF of the Q3 and now Q43, but often wish for more lens choice on that body.
Due to the huge UI of the Hasselblad (HB) 907X/100C I got it and one new 38V lens and like the more classic rendering of my older HB V lenses (from 40-500 and the 140-280). Sure they are huge and heavy, but offer me huge rewards while using them. They are for landscape and not street.
I do find the M or smaller Fuji X-T series are great for street. For me at this moment I am again looking for an alternative to the M, not only due to their current pricing, which I find over the top, but also due to no AF capabilities FOR ME.
Recently FM's comments about adapting a Sony A7CR with Techart II adapter has peaked my interest for using the 45 or more M and R lenses I have re-acquired. As you can probably tell I can spend if I want, but Leicas battery tariff fiasco in the USA has just turned me off against more Leica gear, the M-V included since it only gets me half way to what I really need, good EVF and AF, but not for around US$10k. So I just acquired the HB X2DII for US$7400 and find it TERRIFIC for my use. Sure it is not small, but it will not be a street camera for me at the moment though I may try it with the smallish 38V. What will be my street camera? To tell the truth I got assaulted in Paris and New York (my 2 favorite street environments to shoot) and as such I am currently turned off about street unless I go with Phil Penman one-on-one which kills the spontaneity of just heading out all day to shoot at will where I like to go. Since I lived in Paris for nearly 5 years I know the city and do not venture into so-so neighborhoods. I also worked in NYC for over 5 years and know the areas I like to shoot in and never venture into unknown neighborhoods there either. But lawlessness has stuck twice and I am alive.
I toyed with the first Sony E mount camera and hated the Sony menu system and sold it after a few months. As a result I am hesitant to even try the A7CR/Kolari/Techart approach to using my M lenses. It does hold appeal and I might try it, but after having used the small Fuji setup for some years I found it a great setup.
So to me in the end if I view and share images via the internet who needs a large sensor. If I print it is mainly 13x19 or 17x22 with the occasional 24x36 or 36x48. If you do not print then forget large sensor cameras as you are wasting your money. Heck even when I needed larger sizes from my heavily cropped XT-2 files I used Topaz 2x or 4x to give me what I wanted or needed. Also Fuji's M lens adapter to the XT system knows what 6bit coded lens you are using if I recall.
In the end it is not the gear, but what enspires you and how you use what you capture-internet or print that matters the most. We have so many good choices these days, it is what makes you feel good-forget others opinions and marketing hype. This is said from someone who has all too often bought into the latter two and has often regretted it and/or doubted his decisions.
Sorry so long, but an important discussion for all of us.
