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After 13 years of all Sony, I'm trying Nikon

  
 
aCuria
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p.8 #1 · After 13 years of all Sony, I'm trying Nikon


Ross Martin wrote:
My experience agrees with what you are saying, Dan. Software distortion correction is here to stay, but not a limiting factor for making art. For example, two lenses I happily put thousands of images through in the past, the Nikon Z 24-120 has a whopping uncorrected barrel distortion of 5% at 24mm (PhotographyLife test) and the Nikon Z 24-70/2.8 a more modest 3.47% at 24mm. But what matters is the final corrected result, especially for me in print form since that is my standard, and I really don’t think I nor anyone who has visited my home gallery has
...Show more


When you make a zoom with 5x range like the 24-120, there’s gonna be lots of barrel distortion to correct for on the wide end, and lots of pincushion on the long end. This is the nature of a 5x zoom.

Now you can use software correction and have soft corners, or correct it optically with extra lens groups and have soft corners. Either way it’s still soft as per the resolution testing.

The only real way to fix this is to use a lens with less zoom range, which will have less distortion to correct for and sharper corners as a result.

Even expensive optics like the Canon 24-105/2.8L has considerable uncorrected distortion, this is one of those things that doesn’t get fixed by throwing money at the problem

The nice thing about software correction is that software doesn’t weigh anything and doesn’t cost anything compared to optical correction.

The optically corrected lenses are not necessary sharper either. Digitally corrected lenses are often as sharp or sharper, expecially when comparing lenses in the same cost range.



Sep 15, 2025 at 10:49 AM
j4nu
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p.8 #2 · After 13 years of all Sony, I'm trying Nikon


ruthenium wrote:
Re: "The increase in detail..."
I am not sure what is wrong with me but lately I feel increasingly disinterested in the detail of the photos I take. Often they seem too sharp, and I want them naturally soft, glowing in a soft diffused light (something like that - I have not yet figured this out what exactly I am missing in the perfect sharp photos that display a ton of detail).
Maybe I should try diffusion filters...
By the way, I don't shoot birds or similar. Maybe if I did, then things would have been more simple.


Yeah, I mean I wasn't really trying to say that sharper is better. Only that it allows for larger crops, if that is needed for the given photo .
So, I think if we still see an increase in detail on 200 mpx, then our current lenses still have some "sharpness" reserve in them, regardless if it's needed or not...

BTW, I added diffusion filters to my toolbox and they definitely add some variety to the photos, but I wouldn't call them the silver bullet to make all photos great ...



Sep 15, 2025 at 11:56 AM
Ross Martin
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p.8 #3 · After 13 years of all Sony, I'm trying Nikon


aCuria wrote:
When you make a zoom with 5x range like the 24-120, there’s gonna be lots of barrel distortion to correct for on the wide end, and lots of pincushion on the long end. This is the nature of a 5x zoom.

Now you can use software correction and have soft corners, or correct it optically with extra lens groups and have soft corners. Either way it’s still soft as per the resolution testing.

The only real way to fix this is to use a lens with less zoom range, which will have less distortion to correct for and sharper corners
...Show more


Agreed.




Sep 15, 2025 at 11:58 AM
gdanmitchell
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p.8 #4 · After 13 years of all Sony, I'm trying Nikon


Ross Martin wrote:
My experience agrees with what you are saying, Dan. Software distortion correction is here to stay, but not a limiting factor for making art. For example, two lenses I happily put thousands of images through in the past, the Nikon Z 24-120 has a whopping uncorrected barrel distortion of 5% at 24mm (PhotographyLife test) and the Nikon Z 24-70/2.8 a more modest 3.47% at 24mm. But what matters is the final corrected result, especially for me in print form since that is my standard, and I really don’t think I nor anyone who has visited my home gallery has
...Show more

We're on pretty much the same page here, I think. A lot of folks who go on and on (often in hyperbolic, black-and-white terms) about the theoretical differences between different models, brands, and types of gear would do well to check their biases against actual photographs, preferably large prints. I know that doing so has disabused me of some of the odd forumtography notions that I believed early on.

There's nothing quite like exhibiting in a show that includes beautiful prints made with everything from primes to zooms, film to digital, new to old gear, and formats ranging from MFT to LF to refocus things.

I still have a sticky old bias towards high quality, neutral lenses that don't require a ton of digital correction... but I also leaned that a lot of the theories about the supposedly awful effects of such corrections don't generally play out in the final results.

Since I'm here to scope out the world of Sony, with a possible (OK, likely... maybe even "almost certain") move to the brand before too long, I'm interested in both the more traditional options and those that may rely more on digital corrections, and how good photographers (based on your work, I include you in the group) use the gear.

Edited on Sep 16, 2025 at 09:24 AM · View previous versions



Sep 15, 2025 at 01:03 PM
40Driggs
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p.8 #5 · After 13 years of all Sony, I'm trying Nikon


ps09 wrote:
Sitting in a kayak last Weds on green herons waiting for them to hunt in duck weed. Precapture on for nearly 10 minutes until bam, they leap from the stick into the water to fish. With precapture I got it all. Before precapture I would get the shot once the head was in the water on the way out instead of the entire sequence. When you can’t predict when it will happen, precapture saves the day. In the old days I would have shot groups of 300 images anticipating the action. The action would always happen as I hit the
...Show more

It is one of those things that seems pointless until you need it. I was in Africa the beginning of last year and another member of my group was shooting with an a1II. I had rented the original a1 since the second version wasn't available yet. We shot side by side for several days and were similar in experience, but he came away with a lot more action shots to go through. We were shooting malachite kingfishers and similar birds that were flying to and from nests to feed their babies so the action was fast and unpredictable. I REALLY wished I'd been able to get that a1 II on the trip.



Sep 15, 2025 at 03:06 PM
Ross Martin
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p.8 #6 · After 13 years of all Sony, I'm trying Nikon


gdanmitchell wrote:
We're on pretty much the same page here, I think. A lot of folks who go on and on (often in hyperbolic, black-and-white terms) about the theoretical differences between different models, brands, and types of gear would do well to check their biases against actual photographs, preferably large prints. I know that doing so has disabused me of some of the odd forumtography notions that I believed early on.

There's nothing quite like exhibiting in a show that includes beautiful prints made with everything from primes to zooms, film to digital, new to old gear, and formats ranging from MFT to
...Show more


Thank you for that kind word, Dan! I always enjoy your images and refined processing skills, and would love to see your prints in person.

I agree that the hyperbolic, black-and-white reactionary language is not helpful. There’s a lot of nuance that gets lost. When it comes to brands, camera models, and lenses, there are many ‘right’ answers rather than just one.

An example: I have the Sony 24-70/2.8 GMII which is one of the best performing midrange zooms on the market (the Nikon version I used is right up there also, and likely the Canon). Recently I picked up a used Sony 24-105/4 which is an eight year old design but is still in regular use by quite a few landscape pros such as Mads Peter Iversen, and I ran a careful tripod test side by side with my 24-70/2.8GMII on a scene that I test all my lenses on which features a variety of colors, textures, fine details, white tones, and shadows. My copy of the 24-105 shows sharpness across the full frame at every marked focal length and is very well centered, and scrutinizing 100% pixel view after standard Lightroom processing next to its much more expensive brother at f/8 where it will spend most of its life in my shooting, it is extremely difficult if not impossible to see any meaningful differences - both are excellent in terms of sharpness right into the furthest corners, corrected c/a and distortion, color rendition, and contrast. Of course the f/2.8 zoom is better at widest aperture and has its preferred usage. This evidence supports my experience that obtaining a good copy of a lens is often more important than the differences between two competing lenses that folks love to argue about on forums. My copy of the 24-105 has tested so well that it has now found a place in my backpack on my 2 to 3 month fall shooting trip I embark upon tomorrow.

(I did post images from this test in a different thread)

And one of the nice things about having 60mp’s is I have a 24-116mm in practice because of the available 1.1x crop factor when I may need it, compared to the 45mp sensors I was using previously. Is that a huge deal? No, but it is another piece of nuance that gets lost in the extremist forum banter.




Sep 16, 2025 at 08:16 AM
aCuria
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p.8 #7 · After 13 years of all Sony, I'm trying Nikon


Ross Martin wrote:
Thank you for that kind word, Dan! I always enjoy your images and refined processing skills, and would love to see your prints in person.

I agree that the hyperbolic, black-and-white reactionary language is not helpful. There’s a lot of nuance that gets lost. When it comes to brands, camera models, and lenses, there are many ‘right’ answers rather than just one.

An example: I have the Sony 24-70/2.8 GMII which is one of the best performing midrange zooms on the market (the Nikon version I used is right up there also, and likely the Canon). Recently I picked up
...Show more

You must have a “golden copy” of the 24-105. My mate switched from the 24-105 to the 20-70 and he swears the latter is better



Sep 16, 2025 at 07:15 PM
MikeEvangelist
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p.8 #8 · After 13 years of all Sony, I'm trying Nikon


Hit a big bump in the road on my switch to Nikon. I've run up against a built-in limitation that I find so absolutely stupid, I can hardly believe it can be true. Namely, the user memory slots on the Z8 (shooting banks in Nikon parlance) don't store some of the most crucial settings, including drive mode and pre-capture settings.

This means in order to switch from my normal shooting mode to one more suitable for birds, for example, I have to first switch to the right memory bank, and then still manually set the drive mode and pre-capture format/settings. So there is virtually no chance of doing it quickly to catch an unexpected opportunity that might pop up.

The Z6iii user modes don't have this ridiculous handicap, nor do the similar memory modes on Sony cameras. I can't fathom why Nikon would adopt such a brain dead approach. And further it boggles my mind that the Z8 is less capable in this regard than the lower-in-the-hierarchy Z6iii.

I'm still hopeful I can find an alternate workflow that will achieve what I need, but right now I'm very frustrated.



Sep 18, 2025 at 08:23 PM
Ross Martin
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p.8 #9 · After 13 years of all Sony, I'm trying Nikon


MikeEvangelist wrote:
Hit a big bump in the road on my switch to Nikon. I've run up against a built-in limitation that I find so absolutely stupid, I can hardly believe it can be true. Namely, the user memory slots on the Z8 (shooting banks in Nikon parlance) don't store some of the most crucial settings, including drive mode and pre-capture settings.

This means in order to switch from my normal shooting mode to one more suitable for birds, for example, I have to first switch to the right memory bank, and then still manually set the drive mode and pre-capture format/settings.
...Show more

Mike, that sounds frustrating. Other than the price, it seems like the A1II would be perfect for your needs.



Sep 18, 2025 at 09:46 PM
MikeEvangelist
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p.8 #10 · After 13 years of all Sony, I'm trying Nikon


Ross Martin wrote:
Mike, that sounds frustrating. Other than the price, it seems like the A1II would be perfect for your needs.


It would indeed. Unfortunately, out of reach for me.



Sep 18, 2025 at 10:17 PM
 


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RoamingScott
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p.8 #11 · After 13 years of all Sony, I'm trying Nikon


Did you enable Extended Banks? I don’t use banks so I’m not sure of the extra options in Extended will apply to you.

If a Nikon camera has U settings, it does tend to behave differently than the Z8/Z9.



Sep 18, 2025 at 10:24 PM
MikeEvangelist
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p.8 #12 · After 13 years of all Sony, I'm trying Nikon


RoamingScott wrote:
Did you enable Extended Banks? I don’t use banks so I’m not sure of the extra options in Extended will apply to you.


I did enable them, although they don't help or hinder my current dilemma.



Sep 18, 2025 at 10:31 PM
aCuria
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p.8 #13 · After 13 years of all Sony, I'm trying Nikon


MikeEvangelist wrote:
Hit a big bump in the road on my switch to Nikon. I've run up against a built-in limitation that I find so absolutely stupid, I can hardly believe it can be true. Namely, the user memory slots on the Z8 (shooting banks in Nikon parlance) don't store some of the most crucial settings, including drive mode and pre-capture settings.

This means in order to switch from my normal shooting mode to one more suitable for birds, for example, I have to first switch to the right memory bank, and then still manually set the drive mode and pre-capture format/settings.
...Show more

Mike, I don't get why you bothered with the z6iii or z8 when the "pre-capture" implementation on those cameras doesn't work with RAW. Its just pulling frames from the viewfinder feed.

This is a such a big deal breaker that other Nikon users posting here don't even use pre-capture because of it.

Regarding the memory bank issue I suppose you could shoot with drive mode = on and pre-capture = on all the time.



Sep 19, 2025 at 12:48 AM
ruthenium
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p.8 #14 · After 13 years of all Sony, I'm trying Nikon




MikeEvangelist wrote:
Hit a big bump in the road on my switch to Nikon. I've run up against a built-in limitation that I find so absolutely stupid, I can hardly believe it can be true. Namely, the user memory slots on the Z8 (shooting banks in Nikon parlance) don't store some of the most crucial settings, including drive mode and pre-capture settings.

This means in order to switch from my normal shooting mode to one more suitable for birds, for example, I have to first switch to the right memory bank, and then still manually set the drive mode and pre-capture format/settings.
...Show more
Mike, rent OM-1 II with the Olympus 300mm lens. Give it a try. OM-1 II saves ALL settings; thus, it is easy to switch from shooting a perched bird to one in flight. In pre-capture, one can set the number of shots to be taken during pre-capture and the total number of shots. Another useful setting is the exact minimum shutter speed the camera can be set to maintain in the aperture mode.



Sep 19, 2025 at 06:16 AM
MikeEvangelist
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p.8 #15 · After 13 years of all Sony, I'm trying Nikon


aCuria wrote:
Mike, I don't get why you bothered with the z6iii or z8 when the "pre-capture" implementation on those cameras doesn't work with RAW. Its just pulling frames from the viewfinder feed.

This is a such a big deal breaker that other Nikon users posting here don't even use pre-capture because of it.

Regarding the memory bank issue I suppose you could shoot with drive mode = on and pre-capture = on all the time.


Good question. My thought/hope is that the Z8 would be one camera that works for all my other shooting, while adding the pre-capture ability for the (relatively rare) times when that is desirable. I of course shoot RAW for everything except when forced by the limited pre-capture function to use JPEG.

It's an experiment. There's a lot to like about the Nikon and I'm having fun learning a new tool. It's early days.



Sep 19, 2025 at 07:46 AM
MikeEvangelist
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p.8 #16 · After 13 years of all Sony, I'm trying Nikon


ruthenium wrote:
Mike, rent OM-1 II with the Olympus 300mm lens. Give it a try. OM-1 II saves ALL settings; thus, it is easy to switch from shooting a perched bird to one in flight. In pre-capture, one can set the number of shots to be taken during pre-capture and the total number of shots. Another useful setting is the exact minimum shutter speed the camera can be set to maintain in the aperture mode.


The OM looks great for birds and similar stuff, but as an overall system MFT doesn't fit my needs. And I can't afford to maintain two systems.



Sep 19, 2025 at 07:50 AM
aCuria
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p.8 #17 · After 13 years of all Sony, I'm trying Nikon


Steve Spencer wrote:
Even if it has precapture will it have the semi-stacked sensor with the fast sensor read out of the Z6 III? That would be cool, but I won't hold my breath. Nikon has done a really nice job with the Z6 III and Sony needs to really step up with the A7 V. I hope they do, and they should build a 400 f/4.5 lens as well. It is even part of their heritage as Minolta had a really nice 400 f/4.5 for its day.


I hope the A7iv does not show up with the Z6iii's sensor.

The Z6III’s dynamic range is disappointing, at low ISOs, it even falls behind APS-C cameras like the A6700. Its readout speed is 14.4 ms (1/69), which is still significantly slower than a mechanical shutter which is at 4ms (1/250s). Electronic flash sync is only 1/60s. This means that you should be using mechanical shutter most of the time with this camera.

The A7V is positioned for general photography. It needs to exceed the a6700 by at least 1 stop of dynamic range. Add pre-capture and improve the ergonomics, AI auto-focus, IBIS and tilt / swivel LCD to match the A1ii.

Give it 4k/60 with no crop too.

It would be nice to have more fps and a stacked sensor, but this is not really necessary for the camera's target audience.



Sep 20, 2025 at 10:48 AM
Steve Spencer
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p.8 #18 · After 13 years of all Sony, I'm trying Nikon


aCuria wrote:
I hope the A7iv does not show up with the Z6iii's sensor.

The Z6III’s dynamic range is disappointing, at low ISOs, it even falls behind APS-C cameras like the A6700. Its readout speed is 14.4 ms (1/69), which is still significantly slower than a mechanical shutter which is at 4ms (1/250s). Electronic flash sync is only 1/60s. This means that you should be using mechanical shutter most of the time with this camera.

The A7V is positioned for general photography. It needs to exceed the a6700 by at least 1 stop of dynamic range. Add pre-capture and improve the ergonomics, AI auto-focus,
...Show more

I don't know. I have a different view of what the A7 V should be and that is partly because I was not impressed with that A7 IV. I think the A 7 IV should have used the A9II sensor and brought a fast sensor scan speed to that camera. That would have left them with a camera with no base ISO DR advantage over the a6700, but I think it would have been a fantastic camera, just like I thought the A9 was.

There is of course a tradeoff. Fast sensor scan speed lets you shoot silently even for pretty fast moving targets. It improves video. It improves the viewfinder. It improves the AF by increasing the number of calculations possible. It does, however, generally mean lower DR and lower MP in an entry level camera. If you want fast scan speed, higher DR, and lots of MP you are talking the A1/A1II sensor or the Z8/Z9 sensor. That isn't going to happen in a lower level camera.

My preference would be that Sony would balance this tradeoff and allow a bit lower DR and keep the MP down and increase the sensor scan speed. The Z6 II might not have enough sensor scan speed to allow flash sync speeds for most shooting (even the A9 didn't really do that), but the sensor scan speed is four and a half times faster than the sensor scan speed of the A7 IV. It is even slightly faster than the Canon R5. This speed allows useful use of the silent electronic shutter for slower moving targets and the silent electronic shutter only has to be avoided for faster moving targets. This translates into people photography well. The silent electronic shutter on the Z6 II or R5 can be used for almost all people photography (sports is the one exception) but the silent shutter of the A7r V or the A7 IV can't really be used for people photography without risk of motion induced distortion. That is a useful difference and that difference alone, IMO, justifies a hit in DR. Of course, YMMV.

By the way, I expect Sony to use the exact same sensor in the A7 V that they used in the A7 IV, so I think Sony agrees with you. I think Sony would be better off, however, to have a line up with a fully stacked sensor with high MP and DR for the A1 series, a max MP and max DR camera in the A7r series that often needs a manual shutter, and a partially stacked sensor in the A7 series, that sometimes needs a manual shutter but can often shoot even things moving fairly fast with the electronic shutter. Sure this camera takes a DR hit and has lower MP (if you want DR and MP step up to the A7r series), sure it can't use the electronic shutter for almost everything (if you want that step up to the A1 or even the A9 III that really can use the electronic shutter for everything including flash). I think that is a better line up of cameras and pushes people to the higher level cameras if they need it, but Sony isn't asking me what they should build and I could be wrong is six different ways. I think Sony will not be doing what I am suggesting even though Nikon did.



Sep 21, 2025 at 09:39 AM
chiron
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p.8 #19 · After 13 years of all Sony, I'm trying Nikon


Steve Spencer wrote:
I don't know. I have a different view of what the A7 V should be and that is partly because I was not impressed with that A7 IV. I think the A 7 IV should have used the A9II sensor and brought a fast sensor scan speed to that camera. That would have left them with a camera with no base ISO DR advantage over the a6700, but I think it would have been a fantastic camera, just like I thought the A9 was.

There is of course a tradeoff. Fast sensor scan speed lets you shoot silently even
...Show more

I don't expect to ever again buy any Sony camera body until they make a smallish body with a stacked, or possibly a very fast semi-stacked, sensor.

I'm done with photos ruined by banding vs. an inability to use silent shooting, and with lumps of plastic and magnesium that are painful to take traveling, or to carry two of when alternating lenses fast is desirable, or to just take along easily in everyday life.



Sep 21, 2025 at 09:41 AM
Immortal
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p.8 #20 · After 13 years of all Sony, I'm trying Nikon


aCuria wrote:
The Z6III’s dynamic range is disappointing, at low ISOs, it even falls behind APS-C cameras like the A6700. Its readout speed is 14.4 ms (1/69), which is still significantly slower than a mechanical shutter which is at 4ms (1/250s).


If you pixel peep then... maybe. Other than that you will be hard pressed to notice the difference in DR, in 99% of real world aplications.

Also the semi-stacked sensor in Z6 III is great for silent shooting, while true it's slower than mechanical shutter or fully stacked sensor(obviously) it's fast enough to shoot any action outside of extremely fast one. You wont see any rolling shutter in 99% of your shoots.

I have Z6 III(+Z8) and i would take it over A7 IV any day of the week, its just a better camera in most real world aplications unles you have a very specific needs.

I also own A1, which i like, thou i really dislike Sony aproach to firmware upgrades/adding features and i'm not crazy enough to buy A1 II.



Sep 21, 2025 at 04:35 PM
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