p.20 #1 · After 13 years of all Sony, I'm trying Nikon
I'd really love to try my hand at a Nikon Camera, after having started with Canon, and then switched to Sony. But even the D850 is a little too pricey for me on the used market. Will keep waiting.
p.20 #3 · After 13 years of all Sony, I'm trying Nikon
mojoh wrote:
Hi Mike,
Besides manual focus aids and multi-exposure mode, do u find any other features missing (or lagging behind) on Sony cameras?
I was drawn to the Z8 for its high-resolution, black-out free EVF, 20fps RAW, silent shutter & fast focusing. Also wanted to have pre-capture. Sony has all those things, but at much higher prices. The new A7v looks very nice, but only 33mpx.
When I can buy a used A1ii for around $3k, I might be back. But until then the Nikon is delivering at an overall cost that's much lower.
p.20 #4 · After 13 years of all Sony, I'm trying Nikon
old-gregg wrote:
I would expand on this and say that all E-mount lenses, in general, make it impossible to transition to anything else. In addition to your favorites, there's the entire f/1.4 GM line of primes which Nikon can't compete with, the ultra-compact G-line of primes, and all Sigma lenses, many of them unique, like the 105mm macro art, which none of Z-mount macros can compete with.
Even 3rd party manufacturers who offer Z-mount lenses have wider selection for E, like the Voigtlander primes. Only a small subset of them are available for the Z mount.
Nikon should bundle Megadap ETZ with all of their bodies. ...Show more →
As you note, though, you can use most of these on Z mount without any issue by using an adapter. (The GM primes adapt beautifully...I use a 35/1.4 GM myself). I also find the statement about the Sigma 105mm macro being something with which none of the Z mount macro lenses can compete. The Z 105mm Macro is absolutely exceptional. Brilliantly sharp from corner to corner, apochromatic, gorgeous rendering.
p.20 #5 · After 13 years of all Sony, I'm trying Nikon
old-gregg wrote:
I would expand on this and say that all E-mount lenses, in general, make it impossible to transition to anything else. In addition to your favorites, there's the entire f/1.4 GM line of primes which Nikon can't compete with, the ultra-compact G-line of primes, and all Sigma lenses, many of them unique, like the 105mm macro art, which none of Z-mount macros can compete with.
Even 3rd party manufacturers who offer Z-mount lenses have wider selection for E, like the Voigtlander primes. Only a small subset of them are available for the Z mount.
Nikon should bundle Megadap ETZ with all of their bodies. ...Show more →
It really depends on your needs. Not counting size / weight / price, Nikon has some unique lenses too, such as:
35mm f1.2
85mm f1.2
400mm f4.5
600mm f6.3 PF
800mm f6.3 PF
400mm f2.8 TC
600mm f4 TC
Third party also gets a bit complex because Sony places limits on third party lenses, which Nikon does not. For example, If you want a Taron 35-150mm you won't be limited to 15fps on Nikon.
If it was completely one sided, it would have made things much easier by now for those of us in both systems.
p.20 #6 · After 13 years of all Sony, I'm trying Nikon
Jman13 wrote:
I also find the statement about the Sigma 105mm macro being something with which none of the Z mount macro lenses can compete. The Z 105mm Macro is absolutely exceptional. Brilliantly sharp from corner to corner, apochromatic, gorgeous rendering.
I digitize negative film and transparencies on a permanently tethered copy stand rig where I test nearly all promising (1:1 falt-field) macro lenses regardless of mount. I have a USAF-based test target specifically for testing macros.
It may surprise most people, but there is not a single macro lens, for any mount, which offers corner resolution comparable to center at any aperture. This causes film grain to look smeared outside the center, especially if you're printing large. The reason for this is that it's exceptionally rare for any lens to have a true flat focus field, and at macro distances even the slightest curvature becomes brutal.
So... The corners of the Nikkor 105mm Z are visibly worse than the Sigma. You are right, it is a fantastic lens, in the same category as Canon's and Sony's own 90mm macro. Great for insects or other isolated subjects. But when it comes to the torture use case of flat subjects at macro distances, it can't touch the Sigma. Nothing can. It is truly exceptional.
p.20 #7 · After 13 years of all Sony, I'm trying Nikon
old-gregg wrote:
But when it comes to the torture use case of flat subjects at macro distances, it can't touch the Sigma. Nothing can. It is truly exceptional.
The best lens I've found for slide duplicating, after trying more macro lenses than I can count, is still my old Ai 55mm f3.5 Micro-Nikkor. I would expect the Sigma would have better control of chromatic aberration than this 60-year old gem, but I doubt it has noticeably better flat-field sharpness.
I should get another F to FE adapter so I can use it on my Sony cameras now that all of my Nikon gear is gone...
p.20 #8 · After 13 years of all Sony, I'm trying Nikon
Cliff L. wrote:
The best lens I've found for slide duplicating, after trying more macro lenses than I can count, is still my old Ai 55mm f3.5 Micro-Nikkor. I would expect the Sigma would have better control of chromatic aberration than this 60-year old gem, but I doubt it has noticeably better flat-field sharpness.
I should get another F to FE adapter so I can use it on my Sony cameras now that all of my Nikon gear is gone...
p.20 #9 · After 13 years of all Sony, I'm trying Nikon
DWOfPaul wrote:
@MikeEvangelist@ how do you find the Z7II compared to the Z8? I keep thinking of picking one up to go with my Z8, but I wonder if I will find it to slow (AF / playback responsiveness) after getting spoiled by the Z8.
It depends on what you're using it for.
For static subjects, landscape, travel, etc. it's a great camera. It's a slow readout sensor, so I always have mechanical shutter on, and it's possibly one of the most pleasant sounding shutters I've ever used.
It wouldn't be my go to camera for sports, but that's what the Z8 is for.
For landscape photographers, ISO64 base is really nice to have.
p.20 #10 · After 13 years of all Sony, I'm trying Nikon
Circling back to the (evolved) main topic...Bifurcation
My 'migration' to Nikon has proved to be very challenging. Ultimately I just couldn’t get over the loss of the very small, very high resolution Sony body (with its great crop-ability). I sold the Z7ii and all my non-telephoto Nikon lenses and re-added an a7CR. Along with that, I re-bought my favorite, the 20-70mm G, plus the 14mm AIR and 85mm EVO in e-mount. For the Z8 I kept the FTZ+70-200mm and the 180-600mm.
Now my kit is now divided into two distinct sub-kits: the Sony for travel and ‘normal’ shooting, and the Nikon for action/wildlife. Of course, the Sony lenses can also be used on the Nikon, for the rare occasions where I need to shoot with two bodies simultaneously.
p.20 #11 · After 13 years of all Sony, I'm trying Nikon
MikeEvangelist wrote:
Circling back to the (evolved) main topic...Bifurcation
My 'migration' to Nikon has proved to be very challenging. Ultimately I just couldn’t get over the loss of the very small, very high resolution Sony body (with its great crop-ability). I sold the Z7ii and all my non-telephoto Nikon lenses and re-added an a7CR. Along with that, I re-bought my favorite, the 20-70mm G, plus the 14mm AIR and 85mm EVO in e-mount. For the Z8 I kept the FTZ+70-200mm and the 180-600mm.
Now my kit is now divided into two distinct sub-kits: the Sony for travel and ‘normal’ shooting, and the Nikon for action/wildlife. Of course, the Sony lenses can also be used on the Nikon, for the rare occasions where I need to shoot with two bodies simultaneously....Show more →
For travel, you might want to consider the Sigma 20-200mm. Critically looking at sharpness (100/200%, 5K, 27" monitor) it is seemingly every bit as sharp as my Sony 20-70mm (which I, consequently, sold). Also, another amazing, cheap and super-light lens for travel is the 50mm f2 AIR. My new travel kit is the 14mm AIR, 50mm f2 AIR and 20-200mm.
I normally shoot the A1 II and A7R5. Before going to Europe in December, I sold the A7R5 and acquired the A7CR for the trip. While the size/weight was nice, I just didn't enjoy shooting it. When I returned, I sold the A7CR and re-purchased an A7R5 off of FM. As it turned out, the camera was originally yours. It still looks brand-new.
p.20 #12 · After 13 years of all Sony, I'm trying Nikon
InFocus2014 wrote:
For travel, you might want to consider the Sigma 20-200mm. Critically looking at sharpness (100/200%, 5K, 27" monitor) it is seemingly every bit as sharp as my Sony 20-70mm (which I, consequently, sold). Also, another amazing, cheap and super-light lens for travel is the 50mm f2 AIR. My new travel kit is the 14mm AIR, 50mm f2 AIR and 20-200mm.
I normally shoot the A1 II and A7R5. Before going to Europe in December, I sold the A7R5 and acquired the A7CR for the trip. While the size/weight was nice, I just didn't enjoy shooting it. When I returned, I sold the A7CR and re-purchased an A7R5 off of FM. As it turned out, the camera was originally yours. It still looks brand-new. ...Show more →
I considered the 20-200mm, but decided against it (primarily for the way the aperture hits 5.6 so early in the range). When I want longer than 70mm, I usually want faster, not slower. That's why I've got the 85mm EVO and the 135mm GM. I've also got a Sony 40mm G on the way for the times I want to go all primes.
Glad you got that old A7R5 of mine; it's hard to beat.
p.20 #13 · After 13 years of all Sony, I'm trying Nikon
MikeEvangelist wrote:
Circling back to the (evolved) main topic...Bifurcation
My 'migration' to Nikon has proved to be very challenging. Ultimately I just couldn’t get over the loss of the very small, very high resolution Sony body (with its great crop-ability). I sold the Z7ii and all my non-telephoto Nikon lenses and re-added an a7CR. Along with that, I re-bought my favorite, the 20-70mm G, plus the 14mm AIR and 85mm EVO in e-mount. For the Z8 I kept the FTZ+70-200mm and the 180-600mm.
Now my kit is now divided into two distinct sub-kits: the Sony for travel and ‘normal’ shooting, and the Nikon for action/wildlife. Of course, the Sony lenses can also be used on the Nikon, for the rare occasions where I need to shoot with two bodies simultaneously....Show more →
Interesting.
Yeah, I find it hard to let go of 60 megapixels as well. What's weird is that I rarely use it: only for daytime landscape. But when it works, those 60mpx sensors are *so* good.
Base ISO64 on Nikon, and 60mpx on Sony, if someone came up with 64ISO and 60mpx, I'd drop everything and run to that.
p.20 #14 · After 13 years of all Sony, I'm trying Nikon
Life has gotten a LOT simpler having stopped caring about high res sensors. I barely touch my Z9 anymore and no one would know the difference except for me behind the monitor.
Use an appropriate lens to minimize cropping and any full frame sensor these days is nails. And obsessing over a 1/3-1/2 stop improvement of base ISO isn't worth even talking about. You know these cameras have dual gain ISOs right?
p.20 #15 · After 13 years of all Sony, I'm trying Nikon
MikeEvangelist wrote:
Circling back to the (evolved) main topic...Bifurcation
My 'migration' to Nikon has proved to be very challenging. Ultimately I just couldn’t get over the loss of the very small, very high resolution Sony body (with its great crop-ability). I sold the Z7ii and all my non-telephoto Nikon lenses and re-added an a7CR. Along with that, I re-bought my favorite, the 20-70mm G, plus the 14mm AIR and 85mm EVO in e-mount. For the Z8 I kept the FTZ+70-200mm and the 180-600mm.
Now my kit is now divided into two distinct sub-kits: the Sony for travel and ‘normal’ shooting, and the Nikon for action/wildlife. Of course, the Sony lenses can also be used on the Nikon, for the rare occasions where I need to shoot with two bodies simultaneously....Show more →
Very interesting development, Mike! It seems from another recent thread that quite a few folks are running a combo of Sony and Nikon, maybe that will prove satisfying for you. I may end up doing the same, as I have a Z8 and Z6III en route, plus Megadap+, and am looking forward to shooting these with my favorite E glass. Not sure where I will end up long term but I know I’ll have fun in the process.
Not everyone who wants the 45mp sensor wants the size/weight of a Z8, and the only other option of Z7II for small/light 45mp feels so outdated compared to the newer processor & AF in the latest 24mp bodies. I saw the thread where quite a few are desiring a 45mp ZF. I’m sure Nikon has plans to remedy this at some point.
As Scott noted recently, and I totally agree: "Ultimately, even a high res Z5 variant would be killer. Just give us the sensor with Expeed 7 in a body that is sized for hiking, that's all anyone wants. There are too many QoL issues I have with the Z7ii to go back.”
p.20 #16 · After 13 years of all Sony, I'm trying Nikon
I will say were spoiled in this day and age having all these great cameras. I have shot all the major brands over the last 20 years. They all produced great images (with the Olympus 4/3) being my least favorite.
Sony/Nikon/Canon are just making some AMAZING gear. Can you image what people 50 years ago would have done if having this gear?
I really wanted a Z8, but they wanted too long (Based on when I was jumping back in), so I went Sony cause they had 3rd party support and a lot of the used market here and FB is a "Sony world" so much easier to buy/sell Sony gear.
Can't wait to see where things will go in the next 10 years!
p.20 #17 · After 13 years of all Sony, I'm trying Nikon
sonofjesse2010 wrote:
I will say were spoiled in this day and age having all these great cameras. I have shot all the major brands over the last 20 years. They all produced great images (with the Olympus 4/3) being my least favorite.
Sony/Nikon/Canon are just making some AMAZING gear. Can you image what people 50 years ago would have done if having this gear?
I really wanted a Z8, but they wanted too long (Based on when I was jumping back in), so I went Sony cause they had 3rd party support and a lot of the used market here and FB is a "Sony world" so much easier to buy/sell Sony gear.
Can't wait to see where things will go in the next 10 years!
p.20 #18 · After 13 years of all Sony, I'm trying Nikon
Is there any evidence that ISO 64 on the Nikon is any better than ISO 100 on the Sonys?
nineblade wrote:
Interesting.
Yeah, I find it hard to let go of 60 megapixels as well. What's weird is that I rarely use it: only for daytime landscape. But when it works, those 60mpx sensors are *so* good.
Base ISO64 on Nikon, and 60mpx on Sony, if someone came up with 64ISO and 60mpx, I'd drop everything and run to that.
p.20 #19 · After 13 years of all Sony, I'm trying Nikon
ronno wrote:
Is there any evidence that ISO 64 on the Nikon is any better than ISO 100 on the Sonys?
There was a time when Nikon’s base ISO 64 bodies gave them an edge in DR, but not currently. Some landscape photographers prefer the lower ISO so they can more easily blur water with corresponding slower shutter, but I prefer the higher base ISO because I shoot a lot of woodlands landscapes and am almost always batting wind/breeze and need faster shutter speed. But I can live with either implementation, frankly - it would not be the criteria by which I select my landscape camera.
p.20 #20 · After 13 years of all Sony, I'm trying Nikon
MikeEvangelist wrote:
Circling back to the (evolved) main topic...Bifurcation
My 'migration' to Nikon has proved to be very challenging. Ultimately I just couldn’t get over the loss of the very small, very high resolution Sony body (with its great crop-ability). I sold the Z7ii and all my non-telephoto Nikon lenses and re-added an a7CR. Along with that, I re-bought my favorite, the 20-70mm G, plus the 14mm AIR and 85mm EVO in e-mount. For the Z8 I kept the FTZ+70-200mm and the 180-600mm.
Now my kit is now divided into two distinct sub-kits: the Sony for travel and ‘normal’ shooting, and the Nikon for action/wildlife. Of course, the Sony lenses can also be used on the Nikon, for the rare occasions where I need to shoot with two bodies simultaneously....Show more →
I think you do interesting experiments with owning gear, Mike! It is always fun to try out something new, and it always interesting to hear your take. As Oscar Wilde said, a foolish consistency if is the hobgoblin of little minds. Good for you for being willing to change according to your own experience.
For me, it was the small size of the Sony NEX-7 that first got me to try something other than Canon. I have been hooked on the small size ever since. It may not matter to some people, but for me the small size makes a large difference in carrying and using the camera. A lot of my shots are documentary-style and aim at intimacy. For achieving intimacy, I find a small camera is helpful both to me in how I act and to the subjects in terms of how they react to the presence of a camera. This, I think, was always one of the most appealing selling points of the Leica (but I want AF and IBIS).
The A7CR is almost a perfect camera for my purposes, except it needs a stacked sensor and could benefit from a somewhat improved EVF. If Sony ever makes a camera no larger than the original A9 or smaller, with a stacked sensor, 42+ mpix, and current technology for autofocus and IBIS, I'll be buying two of them out of the gate. I am looking forward to what their next iteration of the A7CII and A7CR will be.
