p.1 #1 · Leica 50mm Summilux close focus vs previous version.
Does anyone know definitively if there is any difference between the new 11728 Summilux 50 M and the previous generation (11891) other than the hood and close focusing? Any optical advantages?
I bought the 35 Lux close focus and really like it. I'm honestly trying to convince myself to buy the new 50 Lux...
p.1 #2 · Leica 50mm Summilux close focus vs previous version.
crf59 wrote:
Does anyone know definitively if there is any difference between the new 11728 Summilux 50 M and the previous generation (11891) other than the hood and close focusing? Any optical advantages?
I bought the 35 Lux close focus and really like it. I'm honestly trying to convince myself to buy the new 50 Lux...
Chuck
The optical design remains the same, but the aperture mechanism has been slightly updated. I believe it now uses 11 blades instead of 9, so when stopping down to f/2 and beyond, you might notice more rounded specular highlights. It's also possible that the lens coatings have been revised but I don't think Leica commented on that.
So while there aren't any changes to the actual formula, these small tweaks might result in a slightly different rendering...though I expect the differences to be very subtle.
p.1 #3 · Leica 50mm Summilux close focus vs previous version.
Fred Miranda wrote:
The optical design remains the same, but the aperture mechanism has been slightly updated. I believe it now uses 11 blades instead of 9, so when stopping down to f/2 and beyond, you might notice more rounded specular highlights.
does this mean you don't get ninja stars at f/2.8 and f/4 anymore, or just ninja stars with more blades?
p.1 #4 · Leica 50mm Summilux close focus vs previous version.
sebboh wrote:
does this mean you don't get ninja stars at f/2.8 and f/4 anymore, or just ninja stars with more blades?
I haven't tried the new 2023 version yet, but the 2004 version does have inwardly curved aperture blades, so yes...bokeh stopped down tends to take on a "ninja star" shape rather than staying polygonal shaped. From what I've read, the updated version with 11 blades delivers a smoother and more rounded bokeh, though I'm not exactly sure what the stopped-down shape looks like.
The ninja stars still happen with the newer ASPH close focus, but they're subtler.
Thanks for posting this! Yes, it’s an 11-point ninja. ...so maybe not a very noticeable improvement, but possibly better when you're not looking too closely. The pre-ASPH version seems to have best aperture rendering by far, especially at f/2.8.
p.1 #8 · Leica 50mm Summilux close focus vs previous version.
Fred Miranda wrote:
Thanks for posting this! Yes, it’s an 11-point ninja. ...so maybe not a very noticeable improvement, but possibly better when you're not looking too closely. The pre-ASPH version seems to have best aperture rendering by far, especially at f/2.8.
i'm pretty sure the very first series shooting wide open in that comparison he accidentally put the images from the pre-ASPH in for the ASPH CF as well as the for the pre-ASPH. there is no way that the ASPH CF has bokeh fringing and nisan bokeh like that. otherwise a very helpful comparison.
p.1 #9 · Leica 50mm Summilux close focus vs previous version.
crf59 wrote:
Does anyone know definitively if there is any difference between the new 11728 Summilux 50 M and the previous generation (11891) other than the hood and close focusing? Any optical advantages?
I bought the 35 Lux close focus and really like it. I'm honestly trying to convince myself to buy the new 50 Lux...
Chuck
You may find this video useful: &ab_channel=AlexBarrera
One more consideration, apart from the number of the aperture blades and the different coatings (and from the CF ability of the new lens) might be the mechanical one. On my v1 I can feel that stickyness on the focusing ring and I have read opinions about the induced stress that the floating group is providing. They say the newer design should be better at preventing this, (in part) due to a bigger diameter of the lens (focus helicoid).
p.1 #11 · Leica 50mm Summilux close focus vs previous version.
catacore wrote:
One more consideration, apart from the number of the aperture blades and the different coatings (and from the CF ability of the new lens) might be the mechanical one. On my v1 I can feel that stickyness on the focusing ring and I have read opinions about the induced stress that the floating group is providing. They say the newer design should be better at preventing this, (in part) due to a bigger diameter of the lens (focus helicoid).
That could be specific to your copy or due to the condition of the lubrication, which might need a CLA. I've owned several copies of the Leica 50mm f/1.4 Summilux ASPH, and the focusing feel has varied between them. This difference is usually due to factors like age, how much the lens has been used, and slight variations in assembly at the factory.
p.1 #12 · Leica 50mm Summilux close focus vs previous version.
sebboh wrote:
i'm pretty sure the very first series shooting wide open in that comparison he accidentally put the images from the pre-ASPH in for the ASPH CF as well as the for the pre-ASPH. there is no way that the ASPH CF has bokeh fringing and nisan bokeh like that. otherwise a very helpful comparison.
I’m not sure. The order he presented in the close-up crops seems correct to me.
What I got from this comparison is that the new 2023 version with 11 blades still unfortunately shows a similar issue. Personally, I use the 50mm f/1.4 Lux pre-ASPH and ASPH mostly wide open, so I don't really notice this kind of "character"...and I say that with a bit of sarcasm.
p.1 #13 · Leica 50mm Summilux close focus vs previous version.
Fred Miranda wrote:
I’m not sure. The order he presented in the close-up crops seems correct to me.
What I got from this comparison is that the new 2023 version with 11 blades still unfortunately shows a similar issue. Personally, I use the 50mm f/1.4 Lux pre-ASPH and ASPH mostly wide open, so I don't really notice this kind of "character"...and I say that with a bit of sarcasm.
it's just the first set of images, in fact if you look at the image url you can see that the one for ASPH CF actually has pre-ASPH in the title:
p.1 #15 · Leica 50mm Summilux close focus vs previous version.
Here's a side-by-side of the Leica 50mm f/1.4 Lux ASPH. and the 50mm f/1.4 Lux pre-ASPH. showing their aperture blade shapes. You can clearly see the kind of highlight shape the ASPH produces. I'm not sure why Leica switched from the pre-ASPH. design, which gave more rounded highlights when stopped down.
ASPH. (LEFT), pre-ASPH. (RIGHT)
iPhone 12 miniiPhone 12 mini back dual wide camera 4.2mm f/1.6 lens4mmf/1.61/25s800 ISO0.0 EV
p.1 #16 · Leica 50mm Summilux close focus vs previous version.
Fred Miranda wrote:
Here's a side-by-side of the Leica 50mm f/1.4 Lux ASPH. and the 50mm f/1.4 Lux pre-ASPH. showing their aperture blade shapes. You can clearly see the kind of highlight shape the ASPH produces. I'm not sure why Leica switched from the pre-ASPH. design, which gave more rounded highlights when stopped down.
ASPH. (LEFT), pre-ASPH. (RIGHT)
my understanding is that the ninja star apertures actually reduces the amount of focus shift that occurs stopping down.
p.1 #17 · Leica 50mm Summilux close focus vs previous version.
sebboh wrote:
my understanding is that the ninja star apertures actually reduces the amount of focus shift that occurs stopping down.
A ninja star aperture doesn't reduce focus shift. Focus shift comes from SA, where marginal and central rays focus differently as you stop down. The aperture shape only changes bokeh and highlight shapes. What matters for focus shift is the lens design and how well aberrations are corrected.
p.1 #18 · Leica 50mm Summilux close focus vs previous version.
Fred Miranda wrote:
Here's a side-by-side of the Leica 50mm f/1.4 Lux ASPH. and the 50mm f/1.4 Lux pre-ASPH. showing their aperture blade shapes. You can clearly see the kind of highlight shape the ASPH produces. I'm not sure why Leica switched from the pre-ASPH. design, which gave more rounded highlights when stopped down.
ASPH. (LEFT), pre-ASPH. (RIGHT)
I found a big enough difference between the latest 11 blade 50 Lux CF and the previous 9 bladed version that it was worth the approx $1,100 plus trade that it cost me to upgrade. My Leica lens kit now consists entirely of current version lenses.
But, when it comes to round bokeh balls the Thypoch Simera 50mm f/1.2 ASPH with it's 14 blades remains the best. It is inexpensive enough that I keep one as my second fast 50mm M lens. I shoot it for use cases where I want a more character rich (some say cinematic) rendering and round bokeh balls. Often this means it is my nighttime 50mm choice.
p.1 #19 · Leica 50mm Summilux close focus vs previous version.
Fred Miranda wrote:
A ninja star aperture doesn't reduce focus shift. Focus shift comes from SA, where marginal and central rays focus differently as you stop down. The aperture shape only changes bokeh and highlight shapes. What matters for focus shift is the lens design and how well aberrations are corrected.
no, your above explanation of how SA works explains why ninja stars help reduce focus shift (you let more of the marginal rays through for a given aperture size). the idea is to reduce focus shift without changing the optical design.
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p.1 #20 · Leica 50mm Summilux close focus vs previous version.
sebboh wrote:
no, your above explanation of how SA works explains why ninja stars help reduce focus shift (you let more of the marginal rays through for a given aperture size). the idea is to reduce focus shift without changing the optical design.
Ok, I can sort of see that, but with the 50 lux Asph it has a floating elements design and therefore very little focus shift, so shouldn't this be a lens in which they abandon the ninja star aperture shape? Still seems like a major screw up to use that aperture shape on this particular lens.
