fredmiranda.com
Login

Moderated by: Fred Miranda
  New fredmiranda.com Mobile Site
  New Feature: SMS Notification alert
  New Feature: Buy & Sell Watchlist
  

FM Forums | Nikon Forum | Join Upload & Sell

       2       3       4       5       end
  

A $1900 shot vs a $13000 shot

  
 
RoamingScott
Online
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #1 · A $1900 shot vs a $13000 shot


The more I shoot medium format, the more impressed I have become in how competitive full frame has gotten in the big scheme of things, with so many quality of life features that most medium format cameras are lacking.

It's easy to forget that improvements in IQ are exponentially diminishing as costs rise.

Just a simple A/B sample between the ZF + CV 40/2 Ultron and the X2D + 55V, all shot SOOC with a Nikon profile that matches as close out of camera to the Hassy as I could find to make it easy. All downsized to 5000x on the long side.


























Jul 09, 2025 at 05:09 PM
DWOfPaul
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #2 · A $1900 shot vs a $13000 shot


It's definitely impressive how much Hasselblad and Fuji have been able to progress medium format, with medium format mirrorless. Personally, though, the biggest advantage I currently see in MF over FF mirrorless is if the extra resolution or squarer aspect ratio helps your print needs. The overall IQ of the images between MF and FF are very close. Hasselblad does have higher flash sync speeds with leaf shutters if you need faster sync speeds, but I use flash less and less as cameras have gotten better, and my styles of photography have changed. Technically, MF also has shallower DOF, but the lenses are usually slower. Which brings us to lens selection, where FF camera systems have a much larger number of lenses to choose from. MF cameras also seem to still be slower and have worse AF than FF cameras.

As much as the Fuji GFX100S II interests me on paper, I just don't see it adding enough to my overall ability to produce photos that it would be worth starting a MF system. Maybe in another generation or two of MF cameras, it will be worth reconsidering. Your sample is yet another good reminder that at least currently, MF does not have a major leap over FF in image quality.



Jul 09, 2025 at 05:52 PM
OwlsEyes
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #3 · A $1900 shot vs a $13000 shot


Scott,
I enjoyed looking at your comparison and can echo your sentiment. While my Hasselblad is "only" 50MP, I'm not sure that its larger pixels and "color science" offer me much in image quality advantages as I'd like to think it does. My Nikon bodies and lenses produce amazingly beautiful files that don't make me want for more. However, the Hasselblad is worth owning because it offers me a different shooting experience and there are times when the shooting experience means more to me than the final image. Furthermore, I purchased my Hasselblad for an unbelievably low price, so it was a bit of a no brainer for someone wanting to have a medium format option in their bag.

cheers,
bruce



Jul 09, 2025 at 06:26 PM
woodstork
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #4 · A $1900 shot vs a $13000 shot


Many years ago I shot Mamiya 7 medium format and it provided a significant IQ boost over 35mm film because it hit a meaningful threshold in size increase. Its impact occurred at a glance and even when images from both formats were printed at modest sizes. Major IQ game changer worth all the pain in the rear limitations of the shooting experience.

When people talk about the medium format look, I’ve never thought it was about thin depth of field. For me it was about full depth of color, great contrast, and the very smooth tonal transitions you get from having a bigger gathering of light information on the bigger piece of film. It just looks so much more natural and dimensional and inviting to me, especially on transparency films.

In comparison, the Fuji and Blad ‘mini-medium format’ mirrorless sensors never quite hit me the same over full frame mirrorless the same way as 67 film did versus its full frame contemporary. Not enough IQ lift to give up the frame rate and versatility of the Z system on any given day. Sold my GFX as soon as Nikon started issuing their spectacular super telephoto lenses and the Z9. More fun for the money.

But I do miss medium format shooting at times. To get a fix I sometimes shoot quick 3-panel stitched shots with 645 system medium format lenses and a shift adapter on my Z7 and these images get close to a medium format look akin to an XPan aspect ratio. One other way the Z system offers versatility.

Now, if Fuji would make a camera and lens system paired with a Phase One sized sensor at a humane price point… count me in! That larger medium format sensor does offer ‘at a glance’ IQ advantage over full frame sensors in a manner reminiscent of how 67 film renders better than 35mm.



Jul 09, 2025 at 09:49 PM
Alistair1
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #5 · A $1900 shot vs a $13000 shot


Interesting. Presumably the last 2 are the Hassy?


Jul 10, 2025 at 12:35 AM
catacore
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #6 · A $1900 shot vs a $13000 shot


My guess would be, for the first two pictures: Nikon, then Hassy, both with their lenses at wide open apertures. Then the last two would be Hassy, then Nikon, with treir lenses stopped down 2-3 stops.

But as Bruce has said above, for some (me included) the shooting experience means a lot, for me this is the reason I own and shoot Leica M cameras (M3 and a 13 years old model M240, at "only" 24MPx).



Jul 10, 2025 at 01:07 AM
bernardl
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #7 · A $1900 shot vs a $13000 shot


This is all the more impressive that the Ultron is significantly behind the best Nikon glass in terms of image quality, or the APO-Lanthar.

Cheers,
Bernard



Jul 10, 2025 at 02:29 AM
fjablo
Online
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #8 · A $1900 shot vs a $13000 shot


Well hard to see differences when shooting at equivalent focal lengths and aperture and downsizing to the same resolution. Also not a scene that would particularly play into the slightly better DR of the larger sensor (no criticism, I think in reality most scenes are like that).

Ultimately 44x33 is not *that* much larger than full frame. But it does allow shooting 100mp with the same pixel-level quality of 60mp on full frame, so that's not nothing.

A bit of a shame that we didn't get mirrorless and the corresponding price decrease of recent years on larger medium format sensors. My Hasselblad H3Dii-39 has a sensor that's 49x36mm and with current sensor tech that would show a more dramatic difference to full frame. And then there are the actual 645-sized beasts like the H6D-100c / 400c with 53x40mm sensors - though tbh many H lenses are not on the level of modern GFX, XCD or even Nikon/Sony/Canon glass, so not sure there is much of a real world IQ benefit either.

For me a CFV back for the Hasselblad 500 series with a 645-sized sensor would be the dream. Not for IQ, but user experience.



Jul 10, 2025 at 04:32 AM
fjablo
Online
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #9 · A $1900 shot vs a $13000 shot


Regarding the A/B: there is a significant difference in color on my MPB, esp. in the magena tones. One camera renders them significantly lighter. That camera also seems to have less punchy greens, maybe a bit more luminance difference in colors overall (my guess would be that's the Hasselblad?). But could probably be matched very closely in post.


Jul 10, 2025 at 04:43 AM
RoamingScott
Online
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #10 · A $1900 shot vs a $13000 shot


DWOfPaul wrote:
It's definitely impressive how much Hasselblad and Fuji have been able to progress medium format, with medium format mirrorless. Personally, though, the biggest advantage I currently see in MF over FF mirrorless is if the extra resolution or squarer aspect ratio helps your print needs. The overall IQ of the images between MF and FF are very close.


Yes, the more square native aspect ratios and the higher resolution giving you more opportunities to use unique aspect ratios are the two big selling points for me. GFX and Hassy still don't have the film 6x7 type "look" to me with their bokeh.

---------------------------------------------

OwlsEyes wrote:
Furthermore, I purchased my Hasselblad for an unbelievably low price, so it was a bit of a no brainer for someone wanting to have a medium format option in their bag.


Unfortunately, my Hassy wasn't a steal so I'm sat here giving it a hard look and determining what it gains me and what it doesn't vs my very capable Nikon gear, even down to the "lowly" Zf. I certainly enjoy the output of the X2D, but there are real pain points with shooting with it.

---------------------------------------------

woodstork wrote:
When people talk about the medium format look, I’ve never thought it was about thin depth of field. For me it was about full depth of color, great contrast, and the very smooth tonal transitions you get from having a bigger gathering of light information on the bigger piece of film. It just looks so much more natural and dimensional and inviting to me, especially on transparency films.

In comparison, the Fuji and Blad ‘mini-medium format’ mirrorless sensors never quite hit me the same over full frame mirrorless the same way as 67 film did versus its full frame contemporary.
...Show more

Agree with all of this, though I prefer shooting the Zf over the Z9 for most things...oh how I wish we could get the Z7ii sensor in the Zf body!

---------------------------------------------

Alistair1 wrote:
Interesting. Presumably the last 2 are the Hassy?


I was curious if anyone would pick up on my trick. It's N > H > H > N

---------------------------------------------

catacore wrote:
My guess would be, for the first two pictures: Nikon, then Hassy, both with their lenses at wide open apertures. Then the last two would be Hassy, then Nikon, with treir lenses stopped down 2-3 stops.

But as Bruce has said above, for some (me included) the shooting experience means a lot, for me this is the reason I own and shoot Leica M cameras (M3 and a 13 years old model M240, at "only" 24MPx).


And there he is =)

The older I get, the more I value the shooting experience over everything else, since output has become so close, especially if you post process.

---------------------------------------------

bernardl wrote:
This is all the more impressive that the Ultron is significantly behind the best Nikon glass in terms of image quality, or the APO-Lanthar.


Indeed! I didn't think comparing to my APO-L would look similar enough FOV wise, plus this proves my point even better

I think the Ultron is a slept on lens, though.

---------------------------------------------

fjablo wrote:
Regarding the A/B: there is a significant difference in color on my MPB, esp. in the magena tones. One camera renders them significantly lighter. That camera also seems to have less punchy greens, maybe a bit more luminance difference in colors overall (my guess would be that's the Hasselblad?). But could probably be matched very closely in post.


My wife picked up on the magenta differences immediately. It wasn't meant to be a perfect color match, or I would have edited them. That said, the Hassy colors straight out of camera are some of the most "true to life" to how my eyes see of any camera I've used. Amusingly, I realized through this experiment that the Hassy JPG files out of camera are identical to the RAW files (color wise), but simply without lens corrections, which is odd and funny.



Jul 10, 2025 at 08:37 AM
 


Search in Used Dept. 

highdesertmesa
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #11 · A $1900 shot vs a $13000 shot


Good time to be a photographer with all our choices. I'm even happy with the results from the 26mp X-M5 I recently acquired. Shoot what brings you joy.

For close up shots like the samples, the Q cameras (and to a lesser extent the X100 series) have given me the most unique and satisfying results.



Jul 10, 2025 at 08:55 AM
olegkin
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #12 · A $1900 shot vs a $13000 shot


I shoot often with both Nikon Z8 and GFX100s2. There is no situation where I would prefer to work with Nikon files over GFX. GFX files are so freaking flexible in post processing. You hit the limit with Nikon much faster. And I don't even really do any extreme processing. I also prefer GFX ergonomics over Nikon. I learned to live with Nikon, but I don't like it every single time I pick it up. All of these cameras are a huge overkill for everything I do. If I had any rational brains in me, I would still shoot everything with om1


Jul 10, 2025 at 10:19 AM
bernardl
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #13 · A $1900 shot vs a $13000 shot




olegkin wrote:
I shoot often with both Nikon Z8 and GFX100s2. There is no situation where I would prefer to work with Nikon files over GFX. GFX files are so freaking flexible in post processing. You hit the limit with Nikon much faster. And I don't even really do any extreme processing. I also prefer GFX ergonomics over Nikon. I learned to live with Nikon, but I don't like it every single time I pick it up. All of these cameras are a huge overkill for everything I do. If I had any rational brains in me, I would still shoot everything
...Show more

Really? I own both as well and using C1-Pro I find the editing experience to be pretty similar. The UI is for me much better with Nikon, that’s a matter of taste I guess.

Cheers,
Bernard



Jul 10, 2025 at 11:12 AM
OwlsEyes
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #14 · A $1900 shot vs a $13000 shot


RoamingScott wrote:
Yes, the more square native aspect ratios and the higher resolution giving you more opportunities to use unique aspect ratios are the two big selling points for me. GFX and Hassy still don't have the film 6x7 type "look" to me with their bokeh.

---------------------------------------------

Unfortunately, my Hassy wasn't a steal so I'm sat here giving it a hard look and determining what it gains me and what it doesn't vs my very capable Nikon gear, even down to the "lowly" Zf. I certainly enjoy the output of the X2D, but there are real pain points with shooting with it.

---------------------------------------------

Agree with all
...Show more

As you already know, I'm a nature photographer that dabbles in other stuff from time to time. As such, I pumped my dollar resources into a Nikon kit w/ the Z9/Z8 and glass that covers my wildlife and landscape needs. I bought my Hasselblad X1D-50C because I wanted something different, but recognized that the resolution was essentially the same as the Nikon.
At first blush, I felt as I was seeing a difference between the cameras... and I still think the Hasselblad resolves fine detail better than the Nikon if I am working from a tripod on a static landscape. I also enjoy the iPhone like interface for landscape photography, but if I have to work fast or in bad weather, I'd grab the Nikon's even if there is a marginal loss in image quality.

I traded my Leica M10 and "cheap" Voigt 35mm f2.5 Color-Skopar to get a 2nd Hasselblad (X1D-2 and 45P). I thought this made sense since I was going on a long landscape trip. I used the two Hasselblads for 90% of my photography in the Redwoods and Oregon, but feel as if I could have ended up with the same outcome had I used the Nikon gear... The only advantage of the Hasselblad was that I slowed down and had to spend more time thinking about composition with my fixed lenses. The latter would have occurred if I brought fixed lenses for my Nikon.

Enter yesterday... I sold my X1D-2 and 45P. I'm holding on the original X1D and my 30mm/90mm original version lenses for now. However, if my Z9 or Z8 were to crap out on me, those would be the first things sold to replace the bodies that I know meet 98% of my needs/wants...

bruce



Jul 10, 2025 at 11:20 AM
sungphoto
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #15 · A $1900 shot vs a $13000 shot


The amount you can push and pull the GFX 100mp files vs the Nikon Z9/D850 is pretty impressive. I don't love filling one gig for every 5 photos I take, but it in a way does reinforce a bit more discipline with the shutter button.


Jul 10, 2025 at 11:23 AM
RoamingScott
Online
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #16 · A $1900 shot vs a $13000 shot


It's funny...everyone that shoots GFX loves the "malleability" of the files...meanwhile, the X2D raw files come out lush with great white balance and need hardly any work at all to look fabulous. Sure, you can shove them around to get a stylized look, but in practice, they don't need the flexibility they possess.

The Nikon HE* RAWs are no slouches and perform great in the vast majority of cases. If you know how to shoot your camera to maximize the IQ in body first, you can get great results with anything.

I don't really buy that the 102mp sensor is leaps and bounds better than the Z9's 45 or even the ZF's 24 in real world use outside of fringe edge cases.



Jul 10, 2025 at 11:30 AM
Ai_Print
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #17 · A $1900 shot vs a $13000 shot


RoamingScott wrote:
I don't really buy that the 102mp sensor is leaps and bounds better than the Z9's 45 or even the ZF's 24 in real world use outside of fringe edge cases.


If it were not for my fringe cases of clients wanting files big enough to support output over 10' feet wide, I am not sure I would bother with the X2D, but they do.

The most notable case is a mural that just went into a hallway of a hotel, it printed 36' feet wide using stitched X2D files. You can stand back 20' feet and take it all in or you can walk up to it and need to use reading glasses to see the maximum detail, just bonkers.

And really, that is where I am at in my fine art work / commissions, I want to break the long standing spell of viewing distance and with this recent mural, I most certainly have.

The biggest hold back now is not the cameras but the software. Photoshop is capped at 4GB on a PSB file and even fabulous stitching software like PTGUI is capped at 65,000 pixels.



Jul 10, 2025 at 01:06 PM
Grenache
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #18 · A $1900 shot vs a $13000 shot


Indeed, the Fuji and Hassie current offerings might better be described as Middle Format, rather than what has been known as Medium Format. The resolution advantages are maximized on these Middle Format sensors only when no cropping (of both dimensions) is done, or if the same scene would have required cropping on a 35mm sensor as well.

In terms of the “medium format look,” this is an eye of the beholder concept. One might see it as better than 35mm, but I don’t think anyone would objectively say it looks like a 6x6 or other film style.

None of the above is to cast shade on either product nor company. It is just to calibrate expectations. I have been on the fence about acquiring one for some time, but it is not to get “the medium format look.” If there were a reasonable price point on a larger sensor approaching PhaseOne size, I’d have already snagged one. Because these are “tweeners,” it has been harder for me to justify.

Jim

Edited on Jul 10, 2025 at 05:15 PM · View previous versions



Jul 10, 2025 at 01:34 PM
sungphoto
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #19 · A $1900 shot vs a $13000 shot


RoamingScott wrote:
It's funny...everyone that shoots GFX loves the "malleability" of the files...meanwhile, the X2D raw files come out lush with great white balance and need hardly any work at all to look fabulous. Sure, you can shove them around to get a stylized look, but in practice, they don't need the flexibility they possess.

The Nikon HE* RAWs are no slouches and perform great in the vast majority of cases. If you know how to shoot your camera to maximize the IQ in body first, you can get great results with anything.

I don't really buy that the 102mp sensor is leaps and
...Show more

Pushing an image for me is less about looking great out of camera, and more about not having to shoot multiple plates to bracket exposures for certain use cases, primarily for commercial projects. For a lot of commercial stuff I shoot about a stop under the "correct" exposure to retain information in the highlights, and it's nice knowing that I have about a stop or two more latitude. You can push the GFX file farther in exposure and shadow recovery without having them feel overcooked vs the same Nikon file. Still shoot Nikon for most of my projects and love what they produce, but there's only so much you can push, upscale and sharpen a 45mp file.



Jul 10, 2025 at 01:48 PM
highdesertmesa
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #20 · A $1900 shot vs a $13000 shot


It’s easy to stitch together an image with smaller formats into a file equal to or greater than 100mp for static subjects. The 100mp 44x33 bodies just become a convenience at that point.

For me, the biggest draw of 44x33 is the native image ratio.



Jul 10, 2025 at 02:20 PM
       2       3       4       5       end






FM Forums | Nikon Forum | Join Upload & Sell

       2       3       4       5       end
    
 

Welcome back
Log in to your account