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Do you feel Sony is falling behind on the low to mid range FF market?

  
 
chez
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p.2 #1 · Do you feel Sony is falling behind on the low to mid range FF market?


chiron wrote:
Yes, from my point of view I would like an A7Cxx sized camera body, or slightly larger (say the size of the original A9, which was about perfect), that has a stacked sensor, 45mpix or more, and an improved EVF. I really am not interested in FPS or video. For under $5,000. Call it an A1C or an A8 or an A7CIII or A7CRIII.

Sony's current numbering system makes perfect sense to me, but really who cares what numbering system they use?


Yes…whatever nomenclature one gets used to works just fine. In the Canon system I really have no idea what camera is best for landscapes…R1, R3, R5, R6…not R7. What exactly does the number after the R tell me about the camera?



Jul 07, 2025 at 06:13 PM
RoamingScott
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p.2 #2 · Do you feel Sony is falling behind on the low to mid range FF market?


Neat. That’s not what this thread is about

chez wrote:
I use it for street and cultural photography and find it does a wonderful job. I also use it for landscape and could not be happier. I don’t need the speed of the latest generation of cameras.




Jul 07, 2025 at 06:33 PM
DWOfPaul
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p.2 #3 · Do you feel Sony is falling behind on the low to mid range FF market?


Within reason, I don't put too much thought into camera naming conventions.

My thinking was that Sony made the a9 to be a higher end line than the a7 line, and then, when they wanted to go even higher, they made the a1 line 1 being short for 10. So, if Sony wanted to make a 45mp stacked sensor camera in the 4k price range, they could start the a8 line.

Personally, I do kind of feel stuck with Sony's lineup. The a7rV feels old at this point and now expensive that with the recent price hike, it's selling for more now than when it was released in 2022. The a1II was already more than I felt like spending on a camera that feels overkill for my needs. Now with the price hikes, it's gotten even more expensive, too. I enjoy the Sony ecosystem for its large lens selection of lenses. But if you're not looking for a 6k+ body (a9III / a1II) or compact body (a7cII / a7cr), you seem to be in a tough position currently. Admittedly, it's not Sony's fault for the price increases, but it is making their lineup look less appealing, especially given their age to me.



Jul 07, 2025 at 06:37 PM
sonofjesse2010
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p.2 #4 · Do you feel Sony is falling behind on the low to mid range FF market?


I think a lot has to do with release cycles. Like I would hope/guess when the A7V gets released it will be competitive and maybe hair bit more "spec" wise on paper better than the Nikon/Canon, but it also will be the newest, when Nikon/Canon refresh that line it will be better than the A7V, until the A7VI comes out.

Sony has a good spot in the market, and don't' think they are in a panic to release something that is not ready (Could be software, production, pricing etc).

A7RV came out in 2022
Z8 was 2023
R5II was 2024.

So just based on the timeline I would assume the Sony has the "oldest tech specs". However for 95% of photographers i think any of them 3 would get you what you need.

(I"m not just a Sony fan boy). I think all 3 make great cameras now.

My prediction is A7V late this year or early next year for delivery (Christmas sales) and the A7RVI won't be until next year.

If the A7V has all the features we think and at a fair price. I can see a lot of used A7IV's on this board and people upgrading cause hopefully the body will be under 3,000 and have a lot of cool features right:? (AI autofocus, precapture, more FPS etc)

Does anybody release the sales numbers per model of the big 3? I would love see the number. Most people I know just use their phones, as less and less people buy these, I would think the price might have to creep up.



Jul 07, 2025 at 06:48 PM
chez
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p.2 #5 · Do you feel Sony is falling behind on the low to mid range FF market?


RoamingScott wrote:
Neat. That’s not what this thread is about



Well I suggest the A7r3 fits right into the low / mid level camera market. At $1000, the price is right. It’s AF is right there with the low / mid level cameras. Where’s your beef?



Jul 07, 2025 at 07:11 PM
chez
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p.2 #6 · Do you feel Sony is falling behind on the low to mid range FF market?


DWOfPaul wrote:
Within reason, I don't put too much thought into camera naming conventions.

My thinking was that Sony made the a9 to be a higher end line than the a7 line, and then, when they wanted to go even higher, they made the a1 line 1 being short for 10. So, if Sony wanted to make a 45mp stacked sensor camera in the 4k price range, they could start the a8 line.

Personally, I do kind of feel stuck with Sony's lineup. The a7rV feels old at this point and now expensive that with the recent price hike, it's selling for more
...Show more

I took a Quick Look at your www and exactly what is lacking in the A7r5 that stops you from making the images you have posted?



Jul 07, 2025 at 07:12 PM
Choderboy
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p.2 #7 · Do you feel Sony is falling behind on the low to mid range FF market?


Admittedly, it's not Sony's fault for the price increases, but it is making their lineup look less appealing, especially given their age to me.

Worth mentioning, for many in this thread, there has not been a price increase.




Jul 07, 2025 at 09:23 PM
old-gregg
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p.2 #8 · Do you feel Sony is falling behind on the low to mid range FF market?


As someone who was switching to mirrorless very recently, I can share how the competitive landscape feels like to a newcomer.

Nobody is even close to Sony. The lens selection is unparallelled, and not just against other mirrorless vendors, but against any other camera system that existed in the history of photography. And that's just the quanitity. When I look at quality, the story is the same. The GM line of lenses simply has no rivals. If you are a prime shooter like me, nobody offers anything even close to the line of 24mm, 35mm, 50mm, 85mm. They have consistent build, optical quality, and (where reasonable) similar filter sizes. Same materials, same AF motors, same focus hold button on the left. On every lens. Even the Canon EF line, probably the most numerous and storied in the SLR world, can't offer this level of consistency. Their primes are all over the map in terms of build, quality and features.

The story continues in the world of zooms. The GM version of the classic trio of 16-35mm, 24-70mm, and 70-200mm are, again, offer consisten build, handling and quality which leaves nothing to competition to pick on. And then you have f/2 zooms that are simply superb. It's worth mentioning that Sony's opennes to sharing the mount with 3rd parties ensures that the similar abundance exists for value buyers. The Sigma's i-line for the E-mount is a prime example of this. And finally, Sony's consistent focus on optimizing the speed/weight ratio is rarely talked about but it's a huge boon to working photographers.

The bodies don't matter nearly as much as the glass. Everyone shares the same sensors anyways, and temporary advantages in firmware, like the AF performance, usually get eroded over time anyway. But here again, Sony is demonstrating consistency. Their cameras tend to be more compact, complimenting compactness of their lenses, kind of completely making Fuji X-platform pointless. They proiritize physical customizeable buttons over stupid secondary LCDs, and they're not ashamed to steal from the best. Any contemporary Sony body offers the best features from both Canon (thumb wheel), Nikon (power switch), and Fuji (physical buttons and aprture rings) instead of sticking to sub-optimal ergonomics for historical reasons.

Defendable differentiation, as opposed to gimmicks, takes real effort in the form of dedication and perseverance. I am convinced that Sony has build a lead that will last them quite a few years.

That's why the A1 II, despite not delivering new gimmicks, has been sold out immediately after its release, folks. And this is why it will continue to outsell competition even after the recent price hike.



Jul 07, 2025 at 10:24 PM
PIOK
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p.2 #9 · Do you feel Sony is falling behind on the low to mid range FF market?


It feels like you work in Sony Marketing Department

Edited on Jul 07, 2025 at 10:52 PM · View previous versions



Jul 07, 2025 at 10:36 PM
chiron
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p.2 #10 · Do you feel Sony is falling behind on the low to mid range FF market?


old-gregg wrote:
As someone who was switching to mirrorless very recently, I can share how the competitive landscape feels like to a newcomer.

Nobody is even close to Sony. The lens selection is unparallelled, and not just against other mirrorless vendors, but against any other camera system that existed in the history of photography. And that's just the quanitity. When I look at quality, the story is the same. The GM line of lenses simply has no rivals. If you are a prime shooter like me, nobody offers anything even close to the line of 24mm, 35mm, 50mm, 85mm. They have consistent build,
...Show more

Great analysis! However much I may want a smaller sized stacked sensor cbody from Sony, I think you have pointed to exactly the factors that make the Sony line such a pleasure to shoot with and to own. Including Sony's greater overall compactness.



Jul 07, 2025 at 10:45 PM
 


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freaklikeme
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p.2 #11 · Do you feel Sony is falling behind on the low to mid range FF market?


I don't think they're falling behind so much as they rely a little too heavily on selling older models at discounted prices to fill in their low end. The only mistake this armchair CEO thinks they've made recently was with the a7cII. I think they either should've made it just a smaller 7IV, without the AI and improved IBIS, and priced it well south of $2k, or waited until they released the 7V and then released the little guy with a $500 price break like we saw between the 7rV and 7cr.


Jul 08, 2025 at 01:24 AM
EB-1
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p.2 #12 · Do you feel Sony is falling behind on the low to mid range FF market?


old-gregg wrote:
As someone who was switching to mirrorless very recently, I can share how the competitive landscape feels like to a newcomer.

Nobody is even close to Sony. The lens selection is unparallelled, and not just against other mirrorless vendors, but against any other camera system that existed in the history of photography. And that's just the quanitity. When I look at quality, the story is the same. The GM line of lenses simply has no rivals. If you are a prime shooter like me, nobody offers anything even close to the line of 24mm, 35mm, 50mm, 85mm. They have consistent build,
...Show more

I'm not quite sure what you mean history of photography, but I find the Sony lens options quite limiting once at 100mm diameter and above. Where is a 200-400/4, 100-300/2.8, 500/4, 800/5.6 or f/6.3, 200/2, 400/4, etc.?
My limited experience with Sony lenses has not been great. Tilted and decentered maybe are not as common as 5 years ago, but that's what I saw with my own eyeballs. Maybe the fast short primes are good, but I have no use for that kind of lens. I need zooms and big teles. YMMV

I do not count fully adapted lenses as Nikon Z has a shorter backfocus and also more potential options there.

The main Sony differentiator is the sensors. Nobody else has FF 61MP nor the 24MP globular shutter. Nikon is dependent on what Sony gives them and Canon is behind the curve. (I know there are other good sensors, but discussing FF here.)

EBH



Jul 08, 2025 at 09:06 AM
Dave Sanders
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p.2 #13 · Do you feel Sony is falling behind on the low to mid range FF market?


This doesn't address the question posed by the OP - Sony is too expensive. Rumours have the new A7V coming in at around $3000 - that's a lot of money. Photography with interchangeable lenses is already becoming a rich old person's game; this isn't going to help.

I hope the pricing rumours are wrong.

old-gregg wrote:
As someone who was switching to mirrorless very recently, I can share how the competitive landscape feels like to a newcomer.

Nobody is even close to Sony. The lens selection is unparallelled, and not just against other mirrorless vendors, but against any other camera system that existed in the history of photography. And that's just the quanitity. When I look at quality, the story is the same. The GM line of lenses simply has no rivals. If you are a prime shooter like me, nobody offers anything even close to the line of 24mm, 35mm, 50mm, 85mm. They have consistent build,
...Show more




Jul 08, 2025 at 11:20 AM
DWOfPaul
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p.2 #14 · Do you feel Sony is falling behind on the low to mid range FF market?


Something to keep in mind is Sony's historical release frequency.

a7 10/2013
a7II 11/2014
a7III 4/2018
a7IV 10/2021

a7r 10/2013
a7rII 8/2015
a7rIII 10/2017
a7rIV 7/2019
a7rV 12/2022

The a7 and a7r lines are now at their longest duration without an update.

chez wrote:
I took a Quick Look at your www and exactly what is lacking in the A7r5 that stops you from making the images you have posted?


The short answer is technically nothing, as I am still using my a7rIV, and there is no doubt the a7rV is better in every way.

The long answer is that I have also used the Z8 for the past 18 months. Over that time, the quirks of the a7rIV have stood out more to me, and the ability to get substantial firmware updates has shown how much our cameras are limited by a lack of SW updates. There are lenses in the Sony world that I enjoy using, and some lenses I would strongly consider buying if the next Sony camera fits my needs. But the idea of speeding 4k on a 4 years old camera that I know won't be getting any substantial improvements does not sound like a good value to me.

BTW I don't see this as a Sony exclusive issue. A Nikon Z7 would also fill a nice hole in my Nikon kit. But I can't see buying an almost 5 year old Z7II camera either. Granted at least Nikon has lowered the base price on the Z7II as time has gone on.

I can't help but feel if I buy a a7rV or Z7II the next month an update will come out 😂



Jul 08, 2025 at 11:40 AM
NJPhotographer
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p.2 #15 · Do you feel Sony is falling behind on the low to mid range FF market?


old-gregg wrote:
As someone who was switching to mirrorless very recently, I can share how the competitive landscape feels like to a newcomer.

Nobody is even close to Sony. The lens selection is unparallelled, and not just against other mirrorless vendors, but against any other camera system that existed in the history of photography. And that's just the quanitity. When I look at quality, the story is the same. The GM line of lenses simply has no rivals. If you are a prime shooter like me, nobody offers anything even close to the line of 24mm, 35mm, 50mm, 85mm. They have consistent build,
...Show more

That sums it up. It's a great system because the lens selection is phenomenal. Of course, nobody has a perfect system. I always wish that I could set up my Sony cameras so that they don't change settings accidentally.

I suspect that few of us have the time or inclination to keep track of small differences in camera bodies among brands, and even fewer will switch systems because of modest price differences in camera bodies.



Jul 08, 2025 at 11:47 AM
tsdevine
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p.2 #16 · Do you feel Sony is falling behind on the low to mid range FF market?


NJPhotographer wrote:
That sums it up. It's a great system because the lens selection is phenomenal. Of course, nobody has a perfect system. I always wish that I could set up my Sony cameras so that they don't change settings accidentally.

I suspect that few of us have the time or inclination to keep track of small differences in camera bodies among brands, and even fewer will switch systems because of modest price differences in camera bodies.


With Fuji medium format...you have 2 choices, either autosave any change you make to the current custom config......or not. If you chose not to, then the setting you change is lost when you power down and power up the camera. With Sony, I know I can tweak a setting and it will stick until I switch to another C1/C2/C3. With Fuji, I'm pretty much forced to autosave, then I have to remember to undo it when I don't want that tweak anymore.

May not be exactly what you are describing, but it's taken me quite a bit of time to handle both paradigms when shooting both systems. The fact that a lot of things are handled similarly almost lulls you into thinking you don't have to think. But there are enough differences to poke holes in that.



Jul 08, 2025 at 12:03 PM
chez
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p.2 #17 · Do you feel Sony is falling behind on the low to mid range FF market?


DWOfPaul wrote:
Something to keep in mind is Sony's historical release frequency.

a7 10/2013
a7II 11/2014
a7III 4/2018
a7IV 10/2021

a7r 10/2013
a7rII 8/2015
a7rIII 10/2017
a7rIV 7/2019
a7rV 12/2022

The a7 and a7r lines are now at their longest duration without an update.

The short answer is technically nothing, as I am still using my a7rIV, and there is no doubt the a7rV is better in every way.

The long answer is that I have also used the Z8 for the past 18 months. Over that time, the quirks of the a7rIV have stood out more to me, and the ability to get substantial firmware updates has shown how much
...Show more

If your current gear doesn’t hold you back, why do you want to buy the latest?



Jul 08, 2025 at 12:06 PM
gocolts
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p.2 #18 · Do you feel Sony is falling behind on the low to mid range FF market?


RoamingScott wrote:
Until you want to shoot things that move, or have rock solid eye detect, or shoot modern video, or a slew of other use cases that cause the A7R3 falls flat on its face.

It's the best value LANDSCAPE camera on the market still, that much is true.


These guys were moving pretty fast and my old A7R3 kept up...have a number of keepers from this event 5 years ago. Granted, I'm very happy with my A1 for events like this these days, but that's due to a number of factors beyond tracking moving objects. As always the more modern cameras are better, but I didn't find the A7R3 unusable.

DSC09577 adobe_filtered by Matt Ebersole, on Flickr

DSC01201 adobe_filtered by Matt Ebersole, on Flickr



Jul 08, 2025 at 12:14 PM
tctmp
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p.2 #19 · Do you feel Sony is falling behind on the low to mid range FF market?


DWOfPaul wrote:
Something to keep in mind is Sony's historical release frequency.

a7 10/2013
a7II 11/2014
a7III 4/2018
a7IV 10/2021

a7r 10/2013
a7rII 8/2015
a7rIII 10/2017
a7rIV 7/2019
a7rV 12/2022

The a7 and a7r lines are now at their longest duration without an update.

The short answer is technically nothing, as I am still using my a7rIV, and there is no doubt the a7rV is better in every way.

The long answer is that I have also used the Z8 for the past 18 months. Over that time, the quirks of the a7rIV have stood out more to me, and the ability to get substantial firmware updates has shown how much
...Show more

That's why car makers come out with new models every 5 years or so, even if not much change underneath. Psychologically, without much discount, people just don't like buying something that they could have gotten years ago, especially for technology items.

And while Sony can sell the old models for "cheap", pieces like rubber age even sitting in warehouses. There is also implication of how much longer service and parts will be available. It's not uncommon those ends soon after the last new item is sold. So I don't know many people are interested in buying those. People know it's "obsolete" even if bought new. Let's say someone could have bought a camera 5 years ago for full price and use it for 10 years, or buy the same camera today for half the price and use it for 5 years before having to upgrade, is buying today a good strategy? Not sure about that.



Jul 08, 2025 at 12:20 PM
DWOfPaul
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p.2 #20 · Do you feel Sony is falling behind on the low to mid range FF market?


tctmp wrote:
That's why car makers come out with new models every 5 years or so, even if not much change underneath. Psychologically, without much discount, people just don't like buying something that they could have gotten years ago, especially for technology items.

And while Sony can sell the old models for "cheap", pieces like rubber age even sitting in warehouses. There is also implication of how much longer service and parts will be available. It's not uncommon those ends soon after the last new item is sold. So I don't know many people are interested in buying those. People know it's "obsolete"
...Show more

That's exactly my line of thinking. It's also been practical for me. Usually, I go 3-4 years between camera purchases. Then, when I buy a new camera, my previous camera becomes my second body. So if I buy a new camera, I am hoping to get 6-8 years out of it. I still use my a7rII from time to time.



Jul 08, 2025 at 01:04 PM
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