Just because you make your living doing something does not mean you are the 'best' and the last word on a subject.
If the masses need to bow down every time a "pro" speaks to feed his ego.... Just so he will stay... Sorry, not worth it.
I have learned just as much if not more from the serious amateur that doesn't have the "God" complex.
spartan
mt-m wrote:
Guy, I just want to make one point. I think this "pro" stuff is being taken a bit too far. I don't think a "pro" deserves any special recognition for his/her advice. "Pro" simply means that you make your living with photography. That does not at all mean that you know more or are more talented than an involved amateur.
I've been a professional PJ for many years working for TASS (former Soviet Union's main news agency) yet I see many amateur shots here that I wish I could come close to.
What I personally value the most is the desire to share experience. Pro or not pro.
Don't discount the fact that although you are a pro you may also benefit from an advice coming from someone with more digital experience.
But in any public forum you'd have to accept that every now and then you will run into an unpleasant personality. You have to learn to ignore it.
Let's just share what we know, we'll all be better for it. Forget the pro/non-pro stuff...Show more →
I just want to say that I value the knowledge I get from guys like BB and Guy. How many new posters come here then leave after a couple of weeks because they are just not serious?
Should'nt long standing members get alittle latitude?
First, I think the last thing we want is to make this thread a kind of pro vs non-pro argument.
Some non-pros can be helpful; some pros may turn unhelpful. When I read a post I do not really care about the origin, culture, occupation of the author.
I appreciate the contribution of members like Guy, BB and many others. I do not focus on their occupation. I am aware they give a lot of knowledge and respect their contribution.
BTW I know that some very good contributors (in this forum or the photographic boards, such as landscape, macro, wildlife I am very interested in) are not pro and even started photography recently; they are just as useful as pros.
Benjamin Munn wrote:
The last major thread that caused most of these problems turned really ugly.
...
At that point, I would have suggested to just walk away from that thread instead of the other thing.
Very well said.
It happened to me several times in the last month to decide not to post in a thread that was looking bad at page 1 and to believe it would get ugly and then to look at it back a few days later and to see it became ugly and was locked (in one case, the initial poster was banned and came back to make trouble under another name).
So maybe it would be good to leave some threads that have a bad smell; IMHO, this can be seen quickly. If the first friendly, helpful answers get flaming replies then, it might be worth leaving the thread, reporting it and let the moderators lock the thread (this looks like a nice alternative to thread deletion: when a discussion will only yield aggration, just stop it).
I hope this one will not get ugly and result in some thinking about what to do to make all members (especially the most important contributors like BB) happy.
Guy Mancuso wrote:
...let's try to forget that your are on a keyboard , look the person in the eye before you start typing
The last time you posted a pic of yourself with a bunch of people and most couldn't figure out who you are. I had to wait for your answer before "looking you in the eye".
I wasn't going to add to this mess, but I think BB is right on all counts. And if some people can't handle it they should leave alone or just accept that not everyone agrees them. It's a shame we have to have these -as i call them-"dummy threads"(pointless and serve no useful purpose).
Guy Mancuso wrote:
This is were the rubber hits the road and i am also not happy with some of these responses. i really don't care if you love him or hate him he probably does not either but from coming from a pro he gave a lot to this forum and gave a lot of great advice to world of FM. I think it all comes down to respect and Pro's that venture in here and HELP than get torn to shreds is simply not fair.
Guy, first of all let me say how much I value the contribution of you and other professionals here. FM would not be the same without you, and I hope everyone can at least agree on that point.
I'm not a professional photographer, and have tried to imagine myself in a similar situation to the professionals here, posting on a forum relating to my professional work, that is also frequented by amateurs/hobbyists. I can certainly see that if I were posting about something where I knew from my professional experience that what I was saying was of great value, but the hobbyists were not respecting what I was saying, then yes, that would wind me up. At the same time, like photography, my profession is a vast and diverse area, and it would be highly likely that many hobbyists would have better knowledge than me in a lot of areas, so I would hope I'd be able to recognise the value in their contributions too.
So I think that mutual respect is the key, everybody should be judged by the value of their contribution, not whether they're a professional or not, though knowing if someone is a professional will of course help to add context to a contribution. There will be good and bad contributions from professionals, and good and bad contributions from amateurs, let's focus on trying to keep FM a forum where good contributions are the norm, whoever they come from.
Guy Mancuso wrote:
It's sometimes is a tough call, i guess this may have happened to BB , i had my share 2 weeks ago and it was not fun
I remember this story very well... Very bad. Actually, when I saw the thread about the 20D kit, I had the feeling it would possibly just turn out as bad.
Walking away is harder a decision after having posted a first reply.
However, even when a thread goes so wrong, if you see that most members (especially the old members you know well) support and share your positions, it means that you are right; the reason for the mess is due to the poster and if you feel replying again and again does not make you happy anymore or even worse aggravates you, then it is better to just leave the thread before having hard feelings.
The problem is that even only one "bad guy" a week can really make the forum look bad. I like the idea of locking threads, moving some discussions to PM but agree it might not be enough.
Xavier
Edited by Xavier Rival on Mar 02, 2005 at 04:56 PM GMT
While I haven't read the entire thread, I'd like to add my good-bye. I've always enjoyed TBB's comments and opinions ...
A couple of comments about the state of the forum. First of all, I haven't seen/read the flame war that precipitated TBB's exit. Perhaps I'm not addicted enough to FM. :-)
Actually, I've been impressed at the *lack* of sarcasm and flaming that has come to posters of the latest "Which lens for a 20D?" posts.
Second, I do lament the evolution the Canon main forum has taken. I loved being new here, taking everything in. I was reluctant to reply, much less to start a topic, because everyone here had much more experience than myself and the discussions seemed to be at at least a semi-pro level. That's all very different now -- and only partly because my own competence has grown. :-)
This forum does become more like DPR by the week, and that's too bad. I have *never* spread the word on how great this place is, and I cringed whenever I saw DPRers refered over here. Maybe FM has lost it's snob appeal. ;-)
chrisutley: Ignore idiots (especially ME when I'm idiotic) and the world will continue on very nicely...
Kyle Yates: Its the natural progression of "the only freedom of the press is the for the guy that owns the press", well, now we ALL get to be demagogic blathering loudmouths.
Both ways, I say ignore the Experati and continue to participate...sometimes I just take a vacation from a board...
My .02 on DPReview: I think that board went to hell purely because the whole community became obsessed (and tolerant) of endless rumor-mongering.
G.
p.s. I forgot...due to the BRILLIANT nature of the board, if nobody comments on a stupid post, it will just float away into history...and a short one at that! (Its good to think that in 10 yrs google will not be returning 8 billion pages for every search)
