It's an imperfect world and there will always be people who aren't kind, considerate or disagree. Hope the venting and goodbye message helped. Thanks for the advise and good luck to BB.
Typical post from someone with a "brittle" personality.
You can leave the game, but it's not your ball, so we'll keep on playing.
Come back when you've developed tact, then your knowledge and experience will truely be helpful. Ramming criticism down someone's throat and telling them to like it is pointless.
"Sorry, but could a person be more dramatic" - Well, it is the Oscar season.
Spartan, I copied and pasted your message from earlier, like BB copied and pasted his DPR farewell.
I'm thinking of the BB in Oscar season and all I can think of is Leonardo di Caprio on the front of the Titanic with that annoying music going in the background
Personally, hats off to Scott as the mod, great job all round.
Now he's going to delete my post..................
If one doesn't like the way things are going with "cocky newbie's" you don't join the fight and throw mud back. If you truly are one of the respectful, well-intentioned members why didn't you just ijnore the posters that bothered you. The fact that were scolded by the moderators maskes me think that you were also guilty in some way. Remember from when we were all kids, you didn't necessarily have to be the one who "started it" to be in the wrong. In fact, the moderators may have been harder on you because they expected more from you, given that you were "not a newbie." I always remember my parents being much harder on me than others when me and my buds stepped out of line.
The other issue I have is this term of "newbie"..what does it mean? Everyone was new here at some time. Also, IMO post count means nothing. There are plently of examples of people rapidly increasing their post count with useless posts and threads. The countless bumps for a good guy on B&S comes to mind (IMO it's ok to bump an occasional friend, but often one person has bumped a whole slew of posts within minutes). Many of us have been here for along time (Iin fact I have been here regularly from before BB) but have small post count because we only post when we have something constructive to say and we don't jump on every little comment.
I think we've all fallen into a trap here (myself included as I posted earlier in this thread)--- really we should just have IGNORED the entire thread --first of all it has NOTHING whatever to do with Canon Mounted SLR's (Or at least I'm having difficulty in determining the connection) and secondly this IS the INTERNET where people can come and go at will.
So I'm still voting for FM (and hopefully the mods will delete this entire thread).
Hmm .. sad to see BB go ..although I wished he would at least have given us a chance. BB was not only talking about the "cocky newbies" but about the respect accorded by the administrators
Im sorry to say this but Ive come to feel that myself and others who have remained here to share your experience simply arent given enough respect by the administrators of this forum.
Ive come to feel that this forum cares more about simply attracting every new DSLR owner to come join and hopefully buy some software than they do about providing a good experience for all.
Should we conduct a post mortem? It was sad to see some stalwarts like Jack Flesher and several others go. I fear that if we don't stem this tide, the number of good members leaving will exceed those joining
I don't even pretend to know the Issues BB had with the administrators of this forum, and I don't think many if any of those who have posted in this thread do either.
Weather or not you like BB, or his attitude, he has contributed much to this forum, and I dare say that just about everybody who has read his posts have learned something from him, myself included. His advise will be missed, at least by those who seriously want to improve their photography skills, pro or not.
I am appaled at some of the posts I read in this thread, while FM and most of us will go on, some of you need to follow your own advise, and just not comment on things that you do not like. I will not stoop to the level that some of you have by putting down individuals.
It is crap like this that drives away the people who can teach us new things and help us improve. Unless you already are the best possible photographer you can ever be, and if you are, why are you wasting out time?
I don't see it as drama. It's a statement and one that probably many of us have had flash through our minds more often lately than we may want to admit. The underlying feeling is valid and a reflection of the times. So many sensitive people, so many jerks ... what a fun mix. B'sides a change of pace is good for the spirits. I think that BB had a helpfull spirit and that same character is why you see the post. I'm sure he is going with mixed emotions, he would probably be much happier to stay if there was more of the old camaraderie, but even in leaving he wanted to contribute, to make a statement, a marker if you will of how it has really changed. Not drama.
Guy Mancuso wrote:
This is were the rubber hits the road and i am also not happy with some of these responses. i really don't care if you love him or hate him he probably does not either but from coming from a pro he gave a lot to this forum and gave a lot of great advice to world of FM. I think it all comes down to respect and Pro's that venture in here and HELP than get torn to shreds is simply not fair. Personally I have run into this same crap that BB might have gone through , first it is not right to offend someone that at first is trying to help you . Thick skin or not we have put many years into this business and shoulkd be treated like such. I as a Pro never ever dish another Pro on any topic we may disagree and that is fine but there must be some boundries . These new posters with 46 posts are mostly idots to begin with , with a chip on there shoulde rthat they are better than anyone else. Yes there are at least 5 a week that do the same crap. So i really don't want to hear it don't exist. What is going to happen when i leave are you going to dish me too. Probably but before you do let me say this , this is our business we are not accountants, engineers, attorneys, doctors etc. we are photographers and we don't tell other people in there industry how to do there job. We come here to HELP you guy's and engage in friendly dialogue, we don't need to be here . But you need us here to help you pursue your hobby. Think about that before you start bashing Pro's around , we won't be here when you need help and all that is left is the cool kid that thinks he knows something. Some of you understand this value , spread the word to those that don't. From my prospective here I learn very little but teach many, that goes for guys like BB and the other pros here.
i know this won't be a popular post , but you needed to hear from someone that knows. it comes down to respect and the knowledge of others that will help you. Not pissing off every Pro that walks in the door, there are very few of us left....Show more →
Well put, Guy! I couldn't have said it any better.
Hey Guy, I don't see a lot pro-bashing with serious posters on this site, but I do confess that I regard the posts by anti-social types as pure entertainment. I personally appreciate all the input by you pro's, you are after all the ones that are the experts, you have to be to survive and I learn something new here every day.But please don't make all amateurs out to be idiots. There are some around that have been studying photography out of interest for decades and are here to try and learn something more, but are equally qualified to say something on a subject they do know something about, even if their main profession is lawyer or doctor, if only to relieve you pro's of the burden of explaining the same basics over and over again.
jaapv wrote:
Hey Guy, I don't see a lot pro-bashing with serious posters on this site, but I do confess that I regard the posts by anti-social types as pure entertainment. I personally appreciate all the input by you pro's, you are after all the ones that are the experts, you have to be to survive and I learn something new here every day.But please don't make all amateurs out to be idiots. There are some around that have been studying photography out of interest for decades and are here to try and learn something more, but are equally qualified to say something on a subject they do know something about, even if their main profession is lawyer or doctor, if only to relieve you pro's of the burden of explaining the same basics over and over again....Show more →
I think taking a break may have been a better option for BB but of course that's his call. The last major thread that caused most of these problems turned really ugly. Part of the responsibility that pros have here if they really want to help is the way that they conduct themselves. The offering of help is a great benefit to everyone that reads these forums but at the same time, it should be done in a way that is constructive.
I can understand BB's frustration though. It can become very unnerving to attempt to help someone only to get it thrown back in your face. At that point, I would have suggested to just walk away from that thread instead of the other thing. We all lose when great photographers leave the forum.
In the future, I hope people will understand that asking for help, for a critique or just posting a photo opens up the door for criticism. Most of the time it is contructive. Learn from that or don't ask for the help.
Guy, I just want to make one point. I think this "pro" stuff is being taken a bit too far. I don't think a "pro" deserves any special recognition for his/her advice. "Pro" simply means that you make your living with photography. That does not at all mean that you know more or are more talented than an involved amateur.
I've been a professional PJ for many years working for TASS (former Soviet Union's main news agency) yet I see many amateur shots here that I wish I could come close to.
What I personally value the most is the desire to share experience. Pro or not pro.
Don't discount the fact that although you are a pro you may also benefit from an advice coming from someone with more digital experience.
But in any public forum you'd have to accept that every now and then you will run into an unpleasant personality. You have to learn to ignore it.
Let's just share what we know, we'll all be better for it. Forget the pro/non-pro stuff
Guy Mancuso wrote:
I agree was maybe dipping to deep in the pile. yes there are many serious posters that we appreciate there time here . I was trying to refer to the ones that make you shake your head a few times , hope you know what i mean. It was more a general statment because there are many really wonderfull people that I love to have discussions with.
