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 p.1 #18 · Tips for this BIF shooter trying Sony for the first time? | |
arbitrage wrote:
Well he returned it all within 24hrs without even trying to work out how he could improve things. So what is the point of even trying to help him out?? Seems like he just wanted a click bait video dissing the Sony AF without even attempting to figure it out.
I don't know how he can be getting better results with a Z9 not jumping to background over an A9III?. This past Fri-Sun I shot Z9 and A1II (IME A9III AF behaves identical to A1II) and the Z9 is so much worse jumping to backgrounds and never recovering to the near subject. It is absolutely the worst of the three main flagships (I had the R1 last month to compare to my A1II and the R1 is much better than Z9 also). Of course if you listen closely he does say the Z9 is just as bad holding onto backgrounds in a very quick one off sentence after ranting about the A9III doing so. But he also says the Sony is excellent at holding onto a bird when it is close to the background which typically is where Nikon and Canon fall on their face and one of the reasons I love Sony for BIF as I can acquire far off and let it track as it approaches before I shoot it. So it seems maybe he is just annoyed that the A9III isn't able to jump from near focus to a close approaching subject like the Z9 does. Maybe there is some truth to that, I don't have a clear grasp as to which one is better for that specific scenario. I'll give that a try this weekend as I still have both cameras in the bag for another 3 days before I return the Z9.
I also don't see how anyone can say the A9III EVF when it drops resolution for AF is so bad. The Z9 EVF is one of the worst I've ever looked through in a modern flagship. The resolution is lower than what an A9III drops down to while AF. The contrast is so bad in the Z9 EVF you can never tell what is actually going to blow out. The WYSIWYG on a Z9 is one of the worst out there. The only EVF I'd give a slight edge to over the A9III/A1II is the R1 but that is very slight as I deliberately went back and forth with the A1II and R1 comparing the EVFs and it was nitpicking to give the edge to the R1. Z9 isn't even in the conversation.
I could certainly give some suggestions that may help but he already returned the gear within 24hrs.
But here are a couple suggestions that may help others who actually are willing to try and learn a brand new system and give it more than 24hrs: For one, don't use the Tracking versions of the AF modes for that type of close, quick BIF. Use Wide or Zone or Custom Zone. Two, yeah, you are going to have to be prefocused somewhere in the range of these close, frame filling BIF coming straight at you. I really don't believe a Z9 focused on the background will jump to a pigeon almost filling the frame any better than an A9III. The Z9 is much worse than the Sony moving to near, grossly OOF birds even when they are just still on a perch and using a Small AF point to concentrate the camera on the subject. We know all MILCs suffer from this but Sony is much better than Nikon to get this done when Sony is put in a Small AF point. He admits he has to use prefocus settings on the Z9 to get these close BIF. He is correct that Sony only supports this on the prime superteles and those PZ lenses....that is a deficiency if one is going to be using the 100-400, 200-600 or 400-800.
And then there are a lot of new AF settings that one may need to fiddle with to really dial in the camera for this very specific BIF use. The older A1 and A9/A9II were much simple to setup with only a single AF slider.
The last caveat is I don't have experience with that 400-800 lens. The 200-600 is certainly a handicap in getting great AF speed and therefore BIF results with a Sony setup. The 400-800 supposedly has better AF motors but it still could be part of the issue for those very close birds.
Give this guy a little bit of time with the A9III (forget about the A7RV for what he is trying to do) AND a 300GM (which would also get him the preset focus option he needs) and IME there is no other camera/lens combination better for the type of shots he is trying to get. I have thousands of those close, frame filling, straight on BIF shots with A9 and A1 series cameras going all the way back to the original A9 and I've owned the top Canon and Nikon Z9 bodies and they are just not up to the task as well as the A9III/A1II and a 300GM is.
If he really is interested in giving it another shot my #1 first thing for him to try would be making sure he isn't using the Tracking versions of those AF modes. I bet he was as everyone thinks they must be better but they are certainly not, especially for the stuff he is trying to do in the examples he shows.
Sorry for my rant but I just can't wrap my head around his experience unless that 400-800 lens is way worse than people say. Others who shoot both Nikon and Sony like Steve Perry and Jan Wegener always seem to agree that for the stuff he is trying to do the A9III/A1II are ahead of Nikon so if he puts in the time he will see the magic come alive....Show more →
Right I'll work through this in order.
1. I've covered the clickbait stuff above.
2. Yes the main difference, as I said in the video, is between how the A9III and the Z9 react when trying to focus on an isolated, fast moving subject against a complex, distant background. My Z9 setup for this is extremely simple: wide box C1 AF area, sensitivity set to 2 and steady movement, bird or animal AF on (both work fine), custom button for resetting focus back to minimum distance which I use before each bird appears. In my usual scenario as I described in the video, the Z9 is extremely consistent in hitting the bird and following it. The A9III, and I'll cover all the settings I used/tried for this below, misses the bird half the time and you have to manually pull your focus back. It seems to be distracted by trees. Both cameras will sit on the background unless prompted - on the Nikon it will usually shift once it figures out what you're following, or if you mash the focus button repeatedly; the Sony did not.
3. I did say in the video that the resolution/quality drop on the A9III EVF isn't as bad as the A7RV. The Z9 EVF is fantastic for what it is: fast and consistent. I shoot in the "Adjust for Ease of Viewing" EVF mode because I also shoot in highlight-priority mode for birds (as the Z9 does like to blow highlights) and I don't want the view going dark. The Z9's EVF may be lower resolution but it's consistent and never lags, even in low light. I don't really care about the maximum resolution for action photography. The R1's EVF seems fantastic though, and the Z9's feels very small and unexciting by comparison.
4. So the A9III settings: I didn't use tracking AF. My usual go-to is a wide area AF on most cameras, with responsive settings for sensitivity, particularly for newly appearing subjects or subjects crossing in front of the current focus. I then had the AF-On button configured to single-point AF, which was basically pointless as that didn't work. I then cycled through all the different settings, trying different combinations for sensitivity settings and different area modes/shapes/sizes. What was particularly bizarre was how it would miss birds in the centre of the frame within the wide area - the Z9 doesn't need a subject, it'll just focus on the closest thing. As I said in the video, for most scenarios the A9III AF seemed very good and worked well with a variety of settings, but in this particular scenario (which I shoot a lot), it was worse than the Z9. It was definitely compounded by the inability to set a preset focus - I'd love to try the setup again if they ever fix that.
5. I do suspect the maximum f/8 aperture of the lens could have contributed. The lens' AF seemed fast enough but if it's close to the limits of the light sensitivity of the AF on the sensor then it will likely be degraded.
6. I'd love to try out the 300GM. Unfortunately most of the larger companies aren't interested in dealing with smaller YT channels so it's rare I get the chance to test out gear unless I buy it. With the exception of Sigma, who are super cool.
7. I did watch a lot of content from other YouTubers ahead of making the purchase, as well as a lot of reading - it's why I was so surprised by how it performs. I think it most likely comes down to a very specific scenario combined with that setup. I did watch Jan's videos on the camera, for example, but his BIF shots from what I could see were either from perched starting positions or on the coast. I did two other shoots within that 24 hours which went better, but they were different circumstances: birds in the city against a background of buildings, and perched birds taking off (where the A9III really does track well).
Honestly the best camera I've shot for this specific purpose is still the OM-1. It's absurdly twitchy, to the point of being useless in many situations, but it's a fiend for rapid BIF shooting. I've got the Z9 in a good workable state for it these days but I would probably get more shots using an OM-1 II.
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