I can only speak from the perspective of a Leica Q3 43 user. I find the camera enchanting. I bought it before a spontaneous trip to France and used it with great pleasure. I can partly understand the criticism of Leica's pricing policy. A battery for around €200? A charger for almost the same price? That's outrageous.
I would differentiate, however, with cameras. As far as I can see (although I'm not that well-versed in the subject), they're Made in Germany. That costs money. And I think that's a good thing, and I'm willing to spend more money on products that come from Europe, especially in a segment where that's less common. I see it the same way in the hi-fi sector or, for example, with pianos. A genuine Made in Germany piano costs more. But you usually get something special in return.
It's simply an incredible pleasure to hold the Q3 in your hand. Add to that the simplified user interface (of course, the latter is individual). And: Even I can see how well the combination of this relatively small camera and the lens works. Even I can see how well it produces images.
The most important thing about photography is the joy of it. This can come from the journey to the image or the finished result. But what's wrong with combining both and enjoying it to the fullest? Unfortunately, this joy will remain reserved for a few, because prices are what they are. I hope these prices will help Leica continue to manufacture in Germany.
I think it's a shame that they use Sigma (or Panasonic?) lenses for certain series. On the other hand, if it helps bring the price to regions that are considered more affordable for Leica as an addition to their finest lenses, I'm okay with it. After all, they're not just rebranding.
The quote "“Jeder soll nach seiner Façon selig werden" => "Let every man seek heaven in his own fashion" comes from Frederick II (1712 – 1786), also known as Frederick the Great, King of Prussia. Sometimes I feel it can serve as a nice reminder.
1bwana1 wrote:
However, in the end the images(equivalent to taste in Vodka) is not discernably different than many other systems. That brings the value proposition into question.
I don't agree. While side-by-side images between, for example, an A7R5 and an M11 may not be discernibly different, the kinds of images I take with my Leica are very different from the kinds of images I take with other cameras. I chalk those differences up to the process (which is quite unique as compared to other mirrorless systems), the optics, the interface between the optics and camera, and the fact that I am more inclined to take the smaller, lighter Leica system with me.
And then there are folks like me that make images that reflect their vision regardless of equipment. And the reason they pick a certain piece of equipment is that equipment works best for that vision and makes it easier for them to capture what they are seeing.
airfrogusmc wrote:
And then there are folks like me that make images that reflect their vision regardless of equipment. And the reason they pick a certain piece of equipment is that equipment works best for that vision and makes it easier for them to capture what they are seeing.
Most/almost everyone does that. But it's also interesting to see where certain gear takes you. It can be a very creative process. It always depends on the journey you're embarking on.
Yes, Leica is a “luxury” brand with corresponding diminishing marginal utility. I’d be more than happy if the Leica were NOT viewed as a luxury item and I have no need or desire for any of the special editions… Ironically, whipping out the M11 with a noctilux is uncomfortable when I am among people that might recognize the brand and lenses. Way more comfortable among people that think I’m some curmudgeon using my old-time camera and humoring me.
soarfm wrote:
Yes, Leica is a “luxury” brand with corresponding diminishing marginal utility.
But if you want a rangefinder or a monochrome camera, the concept of "marginal utility" does not apply nowadays as you have no choice.
And if you want to avoid the luxury problem, you can buy Voigt or other compatible lenses, a 2nd hand M 240 and you will have excellent gear for a "reasonable" price. Especially if you use only 1 or 2 lenses.
soarfm wrote:
I’d be more than happy if the Leica were NOT viewed as a luxury item and I have no need or desire for any of the special editions…
Same here. I do not care about the brand up to the point where I sold some of my Leica lenses to replace them with Voigt ones. And I use a Pana GM5 or a Pen-F quite often and do not feel a lesser person or photographer because of it.
soarfm wrote:
Ironically, whipping out the M11 with a noctilux is uncomfortable when I am among people that might recognize the brand and lenses. Way more comfortable among people that think I’m some curmudgeon using my old-time camera and humoring me.
The only people who recognize it are other photographers and I've never had any problems. In fact, I've never attracted any attention using a Leica M. People tend to notice big lenses on a SLR though and walking with a 300mm/2.8 got me more questions than driving a Ferrari ;-)
I rarely get anyone that knows what I'm shooting with when on the streets with my Ms and if I do get attention it is other photographers. I would always get attention when shooting with my DSLRs.
airfrogusmc wrote:
I rarely get anyone that knows what I'm shooting with when on the streets with my Ms and if I do get attention it is other photographers. I would always get attention when shooting with my DSLRs.
I only get marginally more of attention when using 4x5 than I do with Leica Ms, which is not a great deal in either case. Maybe the fact that a lot of people cross the street to avoid the crazy guy with the weird contraption on a tripod has something to do with it. I must say though that I have met some interesting folks
Attention grabbing with Leica gear: my answer is - it depends. When I used my black Leica M6 with red dot about > 8 years ago, it grabbed attention at touristic locations back when I visited Germany. Leica is more known there as brand than in the US to the general public. Since a couple of years even when venturing out recently with my red-dotted (and not hidden underneath a gaffer tape) M-E 240, it did not grab any attention there. I suspect it has to do with the onset and now very common e. g. Fuji mirrorless cameras which look to the general public quite similar. Attention is more occurring when using any kind of camera in the first place - because the large majority of tourists are using their cellphone cameras only. But from my experience in recent years I would phrase it like "Marked safe from grabbing attention with the red dot"
In recent times there has been only one instance of the camera getting attention - it was from a guy and his girlfriend walking on the same sidewalk I was walking on, and he happened to have the exact same camera and lens combination that I was using (M11 + 50mm Summilux ASPH). It was very welcome, as we ended up talking about the neighborhood, our experiences, and our perhaps questionable preferences. Turns out he shoots professionally in LA and shoots almost exclusively Leica - he was even featured at the Leica Store gallery a few years ago.
The guy's girlfriend was wonderful as well and seemed pretty game to let us nerd out.
Lately when some younger person notices the Leica they usually incorrectly guess that it's a Fuji.
Prior to the influencer fad around the X100, the assumption was that it was an old film camera. And often they'd be surprised (perhaps disappointed) when I would flip the camera around to reveal the LCD display.
soarfm wrote:
Yes, Leica is a “luxury” brand with corresponding diminishing marginal utility. I’d be more than happy if the Leica were NOT viewed as a luxury item and I have no need or desire for any of the special editions… Ironically, whipping out the M11 with a noctilux is uncomfortable when I am among people that might recognize the brand and lenses. Way more comfortable among people that think I’m some curmudgeon using my old-time camera and humoring me.
I enjoy and live this: " Way more comfortable among people that think I’m some curmudgeon using my old-time camera and humoring me" walking around in Anchorage people assume I am the old guy with an older camera who is likely making his first trip someplace and there is no sense asking for directions as I obviously cannot find a camera store to get a more recent camera- It is bliss ! Recently a cruise company bus crew tried to usher me in their bus assuming I was their flock and cluelessly meandering about with the same camera I must have had for decades and still using for my trip of a lifetime.....
Get a vintage brown leather case for your leica - makes the deception complete... even better if it is leather brassed- beat up a little. Aside from the M11P I do walk about with a M4 and cold shoe meter and vintage lenses like a 1966 rigid- making the camera in my own band- which it is and all part of the hiding in plain sight strategy.
rscheffler wrote:
Lately when some younger person notices the Leica they usually incorrectly guess that it's a Fuji.
Prior to the influencer fad around the X100, the assumption was that it was an old film camera. And often they'd be surprised (perhaps disappointed) when I would flip the camera around to reveal the LCD display.
I do the same with my film cameras. I’ll flip them around to show the image I just took. Of course the resolution is a little less than if it was a digital camera.
soarfm wrote:
Yes, Leica is a “luxury” brand with corresponding diminishing marginal utility. I’d be more than happy if the Leica were NOT viewed as a luxury item and I have no need or desire for any of the special editions… Ironically, whipping out the M11 with a noctilux is uncomfortable when I am among people that might recognize the brand and lenses. Way more comfortable among people that think I’m some curmudgeon using my old-time camera and humoring me.
You are the only one that is uncomfortable- Honestly its a shame you feel that way holding a camera.
Maybe its time to go to a cheaper system so you can feel better about what others may or may not think of you? All jokes aside, use it, love it, enjoy it or move on.
One big difference must be that a lot of the appeal of Leica goes back to its history, both as the first small camera and as the camera used by Cartier-Bresson and numerous others.
But Ansel Adams' camera doesn't have that appeal. Nor does Nikon, which in its heyday probably captured more historic images than Leica ever did.
