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What's your take on software correction?
I will not buy a lens that "requires" software correction.
I will buy a lens that "requires" software correction if it otherwise fits my needs/wants.
If there are no other viable options, I will consider buying a lens that "requires" software correction if and when the need arises, but would prefer not to.
I prefer lenses that "require" optical correction if the final image quality is more or less just as good, and it results in a smaller, lighter, and/or less expensive lens.
Undecided.

Lenses that "require" software correction.

  
 
takowasa
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p.2 #1 · Lenses that "require" software correction.


comotionfilms wrote:
I enjoy the character of a lens, so I prefer to keep corrections turned off unless there’s a particular need, so lenses that require correction (and are basically unusable with out it), are of little interest to me. Weight and price are secondary to me, so I’d rather carry a heavier lens if I love the rendering and image quality. I understand the appeal of lenses that need digital tricks in order to shave weight and cost, it’s just not for me and the way that I shoot.


Why the interest in the character of a lens, per se, as opposed to the character of the photo after software corrections? What makes physical corrections superior to software corrections, if the final photo after software corrections has the characteristics that you want, or, more accurately, renders the final photo as close to the characteristics you want as a physically corrected lens?

To me, it sounds like diamonds. That is, synthetics diamonds can be made in a lab that are flawless. So why prefer a real diamond over a synthetic diamond? Because of the flaws? Then wouldn't one also prefer film over digital for the same reasons? Or is the argument that software corrected lenses deliver inferior photos to physically corrected lenses by the very nature of software correction? I think this premise is false. That is, it is entirely likely that a software corrected lens could deliver a superior image because due to relaxed design constraints that allow the lens designers to actually make it optically superior. Yes, the software corrections would then necessarily reduce the final IQ, but it is entirely likely that even with the IQ reduction from software corrections that the final result is still superior. I'm not saying that's the case with the current lenses "requiring" software correction, mind you, because they may have chosen to reduce size/weight at the expense of IQ. However, had they gone with larger/heavier lenses that still "required" software correction (but not larger/heavier than physically corrected lenses) the results could well result in a "superior photo" overall.



Jun 10, 2025 at 09:34 PM
comotionfilms
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p.2 #2 · Lenses that "require" software correction.


Because I like seeing how a lens looks, without artificial corrections. I enjoy the vignette and weird edge bokeh and other flaws the same way I’d rather not use software or AI driven sharpening solutions. Other people do, and that’s great, it’s just not for me. I often enjoy weird lenses, like the newish Cooke SP3s, for instance. I’m not opposed to using corrections, but if I turn off corrections and I don’t like the lens, then that lens probably isn’t for me. And when I’m looking to shoot with a perfect lens, like the Sigma 40mm, I don’t mind the extra weight, as I’d rather not make compromises.

takowasa wrote:
Why the interest in the character of a lens, per se, as opposed to the character of the photo after software corrections? What makes physical corrections superior to software corrections, if the final photo after software corrections has the characteristics that you want, or, more accurately, renders the final photo as close to the characteristics you want as a physically corrected lens?

To me, it sounds like diamonds. That is, synthetics diamonds can be made in a lab that are flawless. So why prefer a real diamond over a synthetic diamond? Because of the flaws? Then wouldn't one also prefer film
...Show more




Jun 10, 2025 at 11:26 PM
takowasa
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p.2 #3 · Lenses that "require" software correction.


I'm still having difficulty understanding your reasoning. I mean, I know what you are saying, but am not understanding why. For example, is it as if a camera metered lighter than you like, but was spot on with, say, -1/3 EV, you'd similarly not use that camera? Or is it more like you feel it is like AI manipulation of the photo making the result something that was created in software rather than recording an actual scene, thus no longer "pure"?

If the latter, then I understand where you're coming from, but disagree. Lens designers use software to determine the shape, placement, and composition of the lens elements. Lenses "requiring" software correction simply use digital corrections after the fact rather than analog corrections before the fact, where by "analog", I mean "physical" in the form of larger, heavier, or more lens elements in a design.

So, if this is correct, then I understand why someone would prefer a lens that didn't "require" software corrections in the same way that someone would prefer a handwritten letter over an email or a phone call over a text. Some prefer that the technology be something tangible so that they relate more with it, which matters more than the end result. And, if software is used to "manipulate" the photo, you want to be in charge of what the software is doing rather than the software doing its thing behind closed doors beyond your control, in the same way many feel safer driving than flying because they're in control of the car but not in control of the plane, even though, per mile, planes are way, way, way safer than cars. However, software beyond your control is used to design the lenses, and you weren't in control of that, either.

But, like I said, I disagree (presuming my understanding of your objection is more or less correct). Whether an additional lens element is used to correct of distortion (and that lens element is designed with computer software) or the distortion is corrected after the fact with software based on knowing exactly what form the distortion takes based on the other lens elements, is all the same to me, so long as the IQ is still there (or, perhaps, even better, as the after-the-fact software corrections can do a better job than the compromises made in designing additional lens elements to make the analog corrections).

Still, it would be an "agree to disagree" situation -- I understand that point of view and can't argue with it, I just have a different opinion. But, again, that's presuming that I'm understanding what you're saying correctly, and I'm not sure that I am.

comotionfilms wrote:
Because I like seeing how a lens looks, without artificial corrections. I enjoy the vignette and weird edge bokeh and other flaws the same way I’d rather not use software or AI driven sharpening solutions. Other people do, and that’s great, it’s just not for me. I often enjoy weird lenses, like the newish Cooke SP3s, for instance. I’m not opposed to using corrections, but if I turn off corrections and I don’t like the lens, then that lens probably isn’t for me. And when I’m looking to shoot with a perfect lens, like the Sigma 40mm, I don’t mind
...Show more




Jun 11, 2025 at 03:18 AM
tcphoto
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p.2 #4 · Lenses that "require" software correction.


I use the lens correction in Photoshop for all my images, it helps the images to some extent on every lens whether they have a red ring or not.


Jun 11, 2025 at 09:03 AM
Cliff L.
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p.2 #5 · Lenses that "require" software correction.


Using a lens designed to have its optical performance corrected by software and then complaining about its performance with software corrects disabled is basically "user error" - much the same as switching off autofocus and then complaining the AF isn't as snappy or precise as you'd like...


Jun 11, 2025 at 09:15 AM
Mike_5D
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p.2 #6 · Lenses that "require" software correction.


I think some people feel short changed by lenses requiring software corrections in post to render and acceptable image. The sensor captures an imperfect image, then some of the pixels are sacrificed to create a usable image and/or the ISO (and noise) is raised in the corners. I get where they're coming from in theory, but in reality it hasn't been an issue for me.

takowasa wrote:
I'm still having difficulty understanding your reasoning. I mean, I know what you are saying, but am not understanding why. For example, is it as if a camera metered lighter than you like, but was spot on with, say, -1/3 EV, you'd similarly not use that camera? Or is it more like you feel it is like AI manipulation of the photo making the result something that was created in software rather than recording an actual scene, thus no longer "pure"?

If the latter, then I understand where you're coming from, but disagree. Lens designers use software to determine the shape,
...Show more



Jun 11, 2025 at 09:49 AM
dcisive
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p.2 #7 · Lenses that "require" software correction.


Having used virtually all competent programs for RAW demosaicing out there, there is no question in my mind and experience that DXO Photolab has by far the finest profiles for the plethora of lenses out there including those that require compensation for correction of their native flaws. In the end all that really matters is is the perspective corrected properly and is the end resulting image sharp corner to corner side to side. Any other argument is fruitless and non-sensible.


Jun 11, 2025 at 11:44 AM
comotionfilms
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p.2 #8 · Lenses that "require" software correction.


I don’t feel short changed, I’m just not interested in these lenses when other options exist that don’t require post fixes to be made whole. Personally I’d rather just grab any number of 35mm 1.2 or 1.4 lenses than buy the canon VCM version, but I’m not a weight junkie and I’m not using it for video, so I’m not the target audience. If weight is a concern that day, I’ll just grab my RX1 and it’s brilliant (and absolutely tiny) 35mm. Or even my r8 and the decent rf. 35 1.8. I’m glad these options exist (though much less options with the canon rf mount) because everyone can shoot with lenses that they enjoy.

Mike_5D wrote:
I think some people feel short changed by lenses requiring software corrections in post to render and acceptable image. The sensor captures an imperfect image, then some of the pixels are sacrificed to create a usable image and/or the ISO (and noise) is raised in the corners. I get where they're coming from in theory, but in reality it hasn't been an issue for me.





Jun 11, 2025 at 11:56 AM
bcguy
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p.2 #9 · Lenses that "require" software correction.


I picked option 2, which says that I am willing to buy such a lens--but I would rather not have to rely on digital corrections. For example, the RF 14-35mm f/4L IS is one of those lenses that requires digital correction. For that I get a compact lens with an appealing focal length range. I might pick up the EF 16-35mm f/4L IS, or even a Sigma 14-24mm f/2.8 instead. The Sigma and the EF lens are both better corrected, but the RF lens is smaller and very sharp after correction. I have to admit, I am tempted by the RF lens.


Jun 11, 2025 at 12:56 PM
EB-1
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p.2 #10 · Lenses that "require" software correction.


dcisive wrote:
Having used virtually all competent programs for RAW demosaicing out there, there is no question in my mind and experience that DXO Photolab has by far the finest profiles for the plethora of lenses out there including those that require compensation for correction of their native flaws. In the end all that really matters is is the perspective corrected properly and is the end resulting image sharp corner to corner side to side. Any other argument is fruitless and non-sensible.


A major problem is that DXO mostly has profiles for newer lenses and cameras, and fewer for the older ones.

EBH



Jun 11, 2025 at 01:49 PM
 


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chez
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p.2 #11 · Lenses that "require" software correction.


bcguy wrote:
I picked option 2, which says that I am willing to buy such a lens--but I would rather not have to rely on digital corrections. For example, the RF 14-35mm f/4L IS is one of those lenses that requires digital correction. For that I get a compact lens with an appealing focal length range. I might pick up the EF 16-35mm f/4L IS, or even a Sigma 14-24mm f/2.8 instead. The Sigma and the EF lens are both better corrected, but the RF lens is smaller and very sharp after correction. I have to admit, I am tempted by the
...Show more

If it’s small and light and sharp after corrected, what’s the issue?



Jun 11, 2025 at 01:52 PM
bcguy
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p.2 #12 · Lenses that "require" software correction.


chez wrote:
If it’s small and light and sharp after corrected, what’s the issue?


Well, that is the conclusion that I reached as well. As I said, I am willing to buy a lens requiring digital correction. I'd rather buy a well corrected lens, but a good lens needing digital corrections is only a slight compromise, and it is a compromise I would accept. If I was ready to buy a wide angle zoom now, I would very likely go for the RF 14-35mm f/4L IS.




Jun 11, 2025 at 02:02 PM
artsupreme
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p.2 #13 · Lenses that "require" software correction.


bcguy wrote:
Well, that is the conclusion that I reached as well. As I said, I am willing to buy a lens requiring digital correction. I'd rather buy a well corrected lens, but a good lens needing digital corrections is only a slight compromise, and it is a compromise I would accept. If I was ready to buy a wide angle zoom now, I would very likely go for the RF 14-35mm f/4L IS.



I have both the EF 16-35 and RF 14-35. The EF collects dust now and the only reason I still have it is because I use it in a water housing that has zoom control built for the EF 16-35.



Jun 11, 2025 at 02:08 PM
artsupreme
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p.2 #14 · Lenses that "require" software correction.


This is a very subjective topic and it all depends on what one needs/wants out of their glass. I personally used to be an f/1.2 junkie but after many many years I realized I'm the only one who's looking at all the "issues" under a microscope (corner/edge sharpness, CA, flare, distortion, etc). So yes, it's the meticulous photographers (you and I) who will beat themselves up over these microscopic "issues" that no one else is going to notice or even care about if you point it out to them. I've "pointed them out" to the people I'm shooting and they look at me like I'm crazy.

With that said I now look for the things that matter most to me which is sharpness in the middle and character. This has resulted in dumping all my f/1.2 and third party glass, and consolidating with a simple VCM kit of 24, 35, and 50. The fact they are all the same size is amazing for me considering I shoot in water housings and I can now use one lens port for all three lenses. This is a dream come true, not to mention my Samyang 85 f/1.4 also fits in that same port. So one port for 4 lenses is simply amazing. I can even use my 14-35 in there from about 16-28mm without zoom control. Other than the compact size/weight of the VCM's, I love the character of them uncorrected. So it's really been a win-win with small size and character of the VCM's while not using digital correction.

I find that the 24 VCM needs my own little custom correction to get rid of the corners, but I do not need to take it nearly as far as the regular profiles do with the heavy crop. Being that the 24 is much wider than 24mm uncorrected, I'm guessing I can get closer to a 20mm if I really want it with my custom profile.

I'm curious if Canon will offer an 85, 100, or 135 VCM, but I don't think they would be the same size. I would love a 135 f/2 VCM to finish off my compact prime kit.





Jun 11, 2025 at 02:52 PM
Toothwalker
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p.2 #15 · Lenses that "require" software correction.


Carlo_M wrote:
The Digital Picture has a great comparator page for lenses, here's the link for their EF 35 1.4L II vs. RF 35 1.4L VCM

https://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ISO-12233-Sample-Crops.aspx?Lens=994&Camera=979&Sample=0&FLI=0&API=0&LensComp=1694&CameraComp=1697&SampleComp=0&FLIComp=0&APIComp=0

Keep in mind it's not going to be a totally fair comparison because the camera bodies will differ (I'm guessing they tested the EF lens prior to Canon's mirrorless releases which makes sense). The link above has the EF on the EOS 5Ds R (and you can choose 1DSmk3 or 7Dmk2 but you'll have a big resolution mismatch) and the RF is on the R5mk2 (you can choose R5 if you want). The results are with lens
...Show more

And here for a real-life comparison: https://www.cameralabs.com/canon-rf-35mm-f1-4l-vcm-review/

If that is a representative sample of the EF 35 1.4L II, then I really have no idea why people claim that it is better.





Jun 11, 2025 at 04:30 PM
Carlo_M
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p.2 #16 · Lenses that "require" software correction.


Toothwalker wrote:
And here for a real-life comparison: https://www.cameralabs.com/canon-rf-35mm-f1-4l-vcm-review/

If that is a representative sample of the EF 35 1.4L II, then I really have no idea why people claim that it is better.

Thank you for linking Gordon's video.

I think the conclusion many people jumped to when the VCMs were released, and it was very obvious the amount of corrections that the profile was doing was more than what most other previous RF lenses experienced, the temptation was just to assume "it's clearly a way worse lens because when you need to apply that much correction clearly the corners will suffer tremendously".

That's why in my post earlier in the thread, I differentiated between middling (for lack of a better word) lenses that require LPC to even become acceptable, vs. lenses designed with LPC in mind, as an actual integral part of the workflow from lens to final image product. When you see what the corrected results are with those types of lenses, the end result even after LPC can either match or in this case exceed the previous lens requiring much less LPC.

Most people don't have an old EF 35 1.4II hanging around, and also decided to buy an RF 35 VCM to do a fair comparison. They just saw how relatively well corrected the EF version was, and how much LPC the new RF 35 needed, and assumed the RF was the inferior lens.

My eye opening moment was when I shot test charts and actual artwork photography on the 35 VCM and compared the results vs. my 50 1.2L and now-sold 24-70 2.8L. That's when I knew this wasn't a "poor lens needing LPC to be acceptable" but rather a lens designed to take advantage of LPC to deliver as-good or better results while also keeping size and weight down. And price. Say what you want about the VCMs being $1400-1700 but they are still some of the cheaper L lenses in this focal range and faster than f/4.



Jun 11, 2025 at 04:56 PM
kirbic
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p.2 #17 · Lenses that "require" software correction.


I'm dubious as to just how good these lenses are for nightscape work, but their performance in daylight is good enough that I will have to reserve judgment until I see some really good night sky work done with them. I am particularly interested to see how the 20/1.4 VCM performs at the corners. Bottom line, if the (corrected) performance is there, then it's there. The only real downside would be trying to stack and do panos with such a lens. You'd ideally want to use the RAW files in PixInsight, but you might not be able to with the distortion.


Jun 11, 2025 at 05:09 PM
takowasa
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p.2 #18 · Lenses that "require" software correction.


kirbic wrote:
I'm dubious as to just how good these lenses are for nightscape work, but their performance in daylight is good enough that I will have to reserve judgment until I see some really good night sky work done with them. I am particularly interested to see how the 20/1.4 VCM performs at the corners. Bottom line, if the (corrected) performance is there, then it's there. The only real downside would be trying to stack and do panos with such a lens. You'd ideally want to use the RAW files in PixInsight, but you might not be able to with the
...Show more

A few large samples from the RF 20 / 1.4L VCM here:

https://www.reddit.com/r/canon/comments/1kpcp3v/new_gear_rf_20mm_14l_vcm_initial_try_at_astro/



Jun 11, 2025 at 08:30 PM
nightnight
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p.2 #19 · Lenses that "require" software correction.


The 35 1.4 VCM is the single best lens I have ever used, bar none. It is blindingly sharp, light, focuses instantly, and the colors are spectacular. I do understand the arguments from the crowd who say a lens should not need such aggressive correction, but I think in this circumstance they do so at the cost of a truly spectacular piece of kit. (On the plus side, these VCM lenses can be had in like new condition for a relative bargain as a result -- I got my 35 for $1000 in indistinguishable-from-new condition).


Jun 12, 2025 at 04:20 AM
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