p.3 #1 · Using Leica together with other camera brands?
I went from a Nikon DSLR system to Fuji circa 2017 in order to carry a smaller system. I really ended up liking the Fuji system a lot and it was also the most fun and satisfying for working with vintage lenses of all kinds (other than some m-mount lenses that did not perform well with the Fuji sensor). When I decided to start photographing wildlife, I moved from Fuji to Sony for both the AF and the long lens selection.
Prior to getting a Sony, I bought my first Leica which was the CL digital and immediately fell in love with it. Since then, I have moved on to the SL series and have an M10. I enjoy shooting the Leica gear more than I enjoy the Sony gear. I also find the files to be more pleasing right out of the camera and easier to edit than from my Sony A1 bodies.
At this point in time, I use the Sony gear when photographing wildlife and when on a trip that has a substantial wildlife component. If wildlife is not a big factor, then I take a selection of Leica gear. For the SL equipment, the only real negative for me is the weight, particularly the 24-90mm and the 90-280mm. That said, they are completely worth carrying on a trip for the fabulous image quality.
p.3 #2 · Using Leica together with other camera brands?
highdesertmesa wrote:
The new Sigma 70-200 2.8 is the best L-mount option out there right now for this. Incredible IQ, insanely fast AF with dual linear motors, and great stabilization. Their newest 28-70 2.8 (II) also has the faster linear motor, but the 28-45 1.8 is a better pairing, IMO, if you can live without 50-70mm.
I have both the Sigmas. Actually the 24-70II and 70-200 2.8. IMHO the Leicas are better, APO and I *really* like the extra reach. There’s really only the Olympus 40-150 and the gargantuan Canon 100-300 as alternatives. I think the closest in L mount is actually the Leica 100-400. It pairs well with the 24-90 and the IQ on my (second) copy is excellent. The 90-280 is still better though, optically, matching the Canon, easily. Just not the Af speed.
p.3 #3 · Using Leica together with other camera brands?
Fred Miranda wrote:
My M-lenses actually perform better on this setup than on the Leica SL series. Plus, having a lightweight body with IBIS and the option to AF manual lenses is a big advantage that's hard to ignore.
For some reason I was under the impression that the mod improved the use of M lenses at the detriment of phase detect AF, leaving contrast detect only. Is that true?
p.3 #4 · Using Leica together with other camera brands?
flash wrote:
I have both the Sigmas. Actually the 24-70II and 70-200 2.8. IMHO the Leicas are better, APO and I *really* like the extra reach. There’s really only the Olympus 40-150 and the gargantuan Canon 100-300 as alternatives. I think the closest in L mount is actually the Leica 100-400. It pairs well with the 24-90 and the IQ on my (second) copy is excellent. The 90-280 is still better though, optically, matching the Canon, easily. Just not the Af speed.
Gordon
I guess I'm confused because you're valuing the Leica APOs over the near-APO 70-200 2.8 but then saying the 100-400 works, but it's positioned by Sigma as consumer grade. Is your 100-400 really that good?
L-mount needs a competitor to the Canon RF 100-500, IMO. The latest 60-600 is there IQ-wise, but it's huge and way too heavy.
p.3 #5 · Using Leica together with other camera brands?
helimat wrote:
For some reason I was under the impression that the mod improved the use of M lenses at the detriment of phase detect AF, leaving contrast detect only. Is that true?
Not true. It does not affect AF, IBIS or even automatic sensor cleaning.
p.3 #6 · Using Leica together with other camera brands?
Fred Miranda wrote:
Not true. It does not affect AF, IBIS or even automatic sensor cleaning.
Thanks for the clarification.
So by my calculation, the only real advantage the SL series would have (depending on which camera is modified) is the automatic M lens detection via the Leica M-L adapter.... Which only works with 6-Bit lenses of course. Interesting 🤔
p.3 #7 · Using Leica together with other camera brands?
I'm currently using four brands... a Leica Q2m and Q3 for a travel and art work. I also use a Nikon Z8 plus trilogy zooms for events and landscapes. I even still use a Fuji X-H1 (w/16-55mm) for family parties and grand kiddo photography. I love each of these cameras for different reasons and currently had zero GAS.
p.3 #8 · Using Leica together with other camera brands?
helimat wrote:
Thanks for the clarification.
So by my calculation, the only real advantage the SL series would have (depending on which camera is modified) is the automatic M lens detection via the Leica M-L adapter.... Which only works with 6-Bit lenses of course. Interesting 🤔
Some M-mount adapters for Sony can automatically detect the lens' FL using Leica's 6-bit code. I use the TTArtisan adapter with this feature, and it works quite well. For lenses without a 6-bit code, you can also manually select the focal length on the adapter.
The Techart EA9 AF adapter also lets you manually input the FL. You won't see the Leica lens name in the EXIF, but it does record the focal length and other helpful info for editing. Besides AF, another advantage is that it allows closer focusing, since it extends about 5mm (similar to a close-up adapter). The main downside is its size and weight, which are greater than those of basic manual adapters.
One more thing to mention is that the modded camera still works just fine with original FE lenses. They won't perform exactly the same, since the thinner sensor stack changes field curvature a bit, but everything functions normally. In fact, with some lenses, that field curvature actually improves. For example, with lenses like the 55mm f/1.8, 35mm f/1.8, or the Batis 135mm f/2.8, the corners can look even smoother in the OOF background when shooting wide open. So for certain situations, like wide-open portrait work, it can actually be a plus.
This setup also replaced my Q2. I now use the A7CR UT with the Techart EA9 and the Voigtlander 28mm f/1.5 Nokton (My favorite 28mm). It gives me 61MP, IBIS, AF, macro capability, and a faster lens, all in about the same size package. Of course, the Q2 or Q3 is a more elegant solution, but the A7CR lets me use other lenses too.
p.3 #9 · Using Leica together with other camera brands?
Fred Miranda wrote:
Some M-mount adapters for Sony can automatically detect the lens' FL using Leica's 6-bit code. I use the TTArtisan adapter with this feature, and it works quite well. For lenses without a 6-bit code, you can also manually select the focal length on the adapter.
The Techart EA9 AF adapter also lets you manually input the FL. You won't see the Leica lens name in the EXIF, but it does record the focal length and other helpful info for editing. Besides AF, another advantage is that it allows closer focusing, since it extends about 5mm (similar to a close-up adapter). The main downside is its size and weight, which are greater than those of basic manual adapters.
One more thing to mention is that the modded camera still works just fine with original FE lenses. They won't perform exactly the same, since the thinner sensor stack changes field curvature a bit, but everything functions normally. In fact, with some lenses, that field curvature actually improves. For example, with lenses like the 55mm f/1.8, 35mm f/1.8, or the Batis 135mm f/2.8, the corners can look even smoother in the OOF background when shooting wide open. So for certain situations, like wide-open portrait work, it can actually be a plus.
This setup also replaced my Q2. I now use the A7CR UT with the Techart EA9 and the Voigtlander 28mm f/1.5 Nokton (My favorite 28mm). It gives me 61MP, IBIS, AF, macro capability, and a faster lens, all in about the same size package. Of course, the Q2 or Q3 is a more elegant solution, but the A7CR lets me use other lenses too. ...Show more →
I had no idea there was a 6-Bit adapter for other mounts, that's super neat to hear. Opens up some interesting options... I have less interest in AF adapters, but like that native lenses still work well when AF is needed. I was under the impression that the SL3 was the only option that played well with M glass, offered automatic lens detection, and offered phase detect AF. Thanks for breaking it all down!
p.3 #10 · Using Leica together with other camera brands?
highdesertmesa wrote:
I guess I'm confused because you're valuing the Leica APOs over the near-APO 70-200 2.8 but then saying the 100-400 works, but it's positioned by Sigma as consumer grade. Is your 100-400 really that good?
L-mount needs a competitor to the Canon RF 100-500, IMO. The latest 60-600 is there IQ-wise, but it's huge and way too heavy.
The only comparison I’m making is that the 100-400 is longer than 200. The Sigma 70-200 is great. Not 90-280 great but great all the same. 200 is just 80mm short of what I like about the 90-280. To me the 90-280 is the perfect match of range and performance. Good 70-200’s fall short.
I would rather carry the 100-400 for the range than the 70-200 for the speed. The 90-280 is the goldilocks middle ground but heavy and slow AF. My 90-280 is as good as my RF100-300.
And my current copy of the 100-400 is basically indistinguishable from my RF100-500 or 100-400GM. The first one I had was awful and I exchanged it. Being a Sigma clone I guess there’s some copy variation. The replacement is a keeper for sure.
p.3 #11 · Using Leica together with other camera brands?
helimat wrote:
I had no idea there was a 6-Bit adapter for other mounts, that's super neat to hear. Opens up some interesting options... I have less interest in AF adapters, but like that native lenses still work well when AF is needed. I was under the impression that the SL3 was the only option that played well with M glass, offered automatic lens detection, and offered phase detect AF. Thanks for breaking it all down!
p.3 #12 · Using Leica together with other camera brands?
helimat wrote:
For some reason I was under the impression that the mod improved the use of M lenses at the detriment of phase detect AF, leaving contrast detect only. Is that true?
Perhaps the mod you're thinking of is the one that renders a Sony camera as monochromatic only. That mod improves resolution at the cost of phase detect AF.
p.3 #13 · Using Leica together with other camera brands?
I'm using three systems right now for specific things (though at some point over the last thirty years I feel like I've used at least 5 or 6 different brands as primary systems):
1. Sony A1 + a bunch of GM lenses for... well... generalist everything stuff including video. Where getting the shot as it happens matters, Sony is my go-to.
2. Canon R5 + 10-20 f/4L for landscapes and seascapes only.
3. Leica M11 + 35, 50, and 75 Summilux and CZ 21mm f/2.8 for when having fun with photography, a certain "look," or being discreet matters more than getting every shot perfect.
As to your question about why Fred doesn't talk as much about Sony anymore, I would say I don't really talk much about Sony anymore either. There isn't much to say except that it works almost perfectly all the time. Just figure out what focal lengths and capabilities you want or need, get the cameras and lenses you want (or just get an A1), and convert any situation that emerges before you (and some that are in your own mind) into serviceable images. There isn't a ton of craft or process in using the camera itself - you can pretty much point, focus, process, and display.
The Leica process is very different, and that's what most of us are in it for I think. It's a quirky process as compared to the intuitive point-and-capture approach that modern mirrorless camera systems enable, and that's a rich source of conversation in and of itself. Also, at least to my eye there does seem to be a Leica "look" - not sure whether its the lenses, process, or both acting in a way to change the kinds of photos one takes. But my Leica photos feel distinct from my Sony photos in ways that I really like - imperfect, casual, often a little dreamy, but always a special sort of memorable to me. Put another way, the work I do on Sony (and to a lesser degree, the Canon) are as much for others as they are for me - it's rare that I'm using either of those cameras without the intent to show finished results to others in a public gallery or website. The Leica, however, is a tool for capturing moments that I might not share with anyone other than those closest to me.
p.3 #14 · Using Leica together with other camera brands?
chiron wrote:
Perhaps the mod you're thinking of is the one that renders a Sony camera as monochromatic only. That mod improves resolution at the cost of phase detect AF.
p.3 #15 · Using Leica together with other camera brands?
As a gear whore and collector, I am surrounded by multiple brands of cameras, lenses, adapters, films, sensor sizes, projectors. Things are out of control when you are using stuff like this:
I doubt even the Leica fanatics here can describe what is shown above. The registration distance of DSLR made M lens usage very difficult, but I thought the advent of Alpha 7 would solve every problem—until the cover-glass debacle. I won't acquire digital M bodies for various reasons, and my A7ii has fallen out of favor. This leaves my Nikon DSLRs (D3X, D4, D500) and Z6 as my choice bodies, and the Z6 as the best body for adapting everything. I should shoot more E-6 before it goes extinct, and for that medium I have a complete Contax/Yashica system, Contax T rangefinders, and complete Leica system of M4, IIIb, flash, and lenses.
p.3 #16 · Using Leica together with other camera brands?
rico wrote:
As a gear whore and collector, I am surrounded by multiple brands of cameras, lenses, adapters, films, sensor sizes, projectors. Things are out of control when you are using stuff like this:
I doubt even the Leica fanatics here can describe what is shown above. The registration distance of DSLR made M lens usage very difficult, but I thought the advent of Alpha 7 would solve every problem—until the cover-glass debacle. I won't acquire digital M bodies for various reasons, and my A7ii has fallen out of favor. This leaves my Nikon DSLRs (D3X, D4, D500) and Z6 as my choice bodies, and the Z6 as the best body for adapting everything. I should shoot more E-6 before it goes extinct, and for that medium I have a complete Contax/Yashica system, Contax T rangefinders, and complete Leica system of M4, IIIb, flash, and lenses....Show more →
Whoa. Is that an original 1Ds? I remember drooling over those almost two decades ago! 11MP full frame in a weather-proof body seems utterly insane. How the world changes!
p.3 #17 · Using Leica together with other camera brands?
Arka wrote:
Whoa. Is that an original 1Ds? I remember drooling over those almost two decades ago! 11MP full frame in a weather-proof body seems utterly insane. How the world changes!
Yeah, 1Ds, the camera that buried Hasselblad AB. Was my front-line studio machine for 10 years, and I adapted all kinds of crazy lenses. Weighs a freaking ton but the handling was divine. Still own it, too.
p.3 #18 · Using Leica together with other camera brands?
rico wrote:
As a gear whore and collector, I am surrounded by multiple brands of cameras, lenses, adapters, films, sensor sizes, projectors. Things are out of control when you are using stuff like this:
I doubt even the Leica fanatics here can describe what is shown above. The registration distance of DSLR made M lens usage very difficult, but I thought the advent of Alpha 7 would solve every problem—until the cover-glass debacle. I won't acquire digital M bodies for various reasons, and my A7ii has fallen out of favor. This leaves my Nikon DSLRs (D3X, D4, D500) and Z6 as my choice bodies, and the Z6 as the best body for adapting everything. I should shoot more E-6 before it goes extinct, and for that medium I have a complete Contax/Yashica system, Contax T rangefinders, and complete Leica system of M4, IIIb, flash, and lenses....Show more →
p.3 #19 · Using Leica together with other camera brands?
Nick YR wrote:
I dont know how you guys can use so many systems at once.
Do you bring more than 1 cam every time you go out?
For a while I was shooting client work on Leica M with wide to standard focal length lenses alongside my Canon DSLRs with telephoto lenses to benefit from the speed and certainty of AF where it mattered more for what I photographed.
The M and Canon ergonomics couldn't be more different (traditional dials vs. buttons/dials/LCD displays), but I have been using Canon since the 80s and starting with the T90, their ergonomics have actually been quite consistent in the higher end cameras, so they have become pretty much second nature for me. Throwing the M into the mix wasn't as difficult as it might seem and it has certain strengths, which is what attracted me to the system in the first place (high quality, easy to focus small wide angle lenses).
The biggest challenge IMO was post production because the Canon and Leica files respond to post very differently, along with different color characteristics (at least the older M cameras I have experience with when I frequently used both systems side by side: M9 and M240; the M10 and M11 series might be more similar to contemporary competitor systems, especially the M11 and its Sony sensor). I find Canon's files much easier to color correct for typical skin tones when doing people photography. For landscape/urban photography I generally prefer Leica's colors. But for skin tone, IMO, the M's very thin sensor stack and suboptimal IR filtering messes with people's complexions, depending on the light source and quality.
Having transitioned to Canon mirrorless from DSLRs, Canon's cameras have become smaller, and along with other conveniences such as IBIS and killer people/face/eye AF tracking, and lenses like the 28-70/2, while huge in itself, has in some ways 'freed' me from certain previous constraints. As a result I find myself using my Canon system for a lot more of what I previously used the M system. But I just spent a couple days only using the M. It was a great experience and reminded me what I like so much about the system. I think I might want to make it more of a 'snapshot' system now, by which I mean walk-around, typically stopped down photography, for which I don't need Lux lens speed and therefore can downsize the kit with smaller, slower lenses in place of those.
p.3 #20 · Using Leica together with other camera brands?
My phases/stages are in opposite direction, I am so used to the mirrorless convenience in terms of AF, AF tracking, IBIS, and photography becomes mindless clicking and there was thoughtless process behind the images.
Moving to Leica M rangefinders made me think about the process once again, and I become very selective on what picture to take, thus the images become more memorable in the end.
rscheffler wrote:
For a while I was shooting client work on Leica M with wide to standard focal length lenses alongside my Canon DSLRs with telephoto lenses to benefit from the speed and certainty of AF where it mattered more for what I photographed.
The M and Canon ergonomics couldn't be more different (traditional dials vs. buttons/dials/LCD displays), but I have been using Canon since the 80s and starting with the T90, their ergonomics have actually been quite consistent in the higher end cameras, so they have become pretty much second nature for me. Throwing the M into the mix wasn't as difficult as it might seem and it has certain strengths, which is what attracted me to the system in the first place (high quality, easy to focus small wide angle lenses).
The biggest challenge IMO was post production because the Canon and Leica files respond to post very differently, along with different color characteristics (at least the older M cameras I have experience with when I frequently used both systems side by side: M9 and M240; the M10 and M11 series might be more similar to contemporary competitor systems, especially the M11 and its Sony sensor). I find Canon's files much easier to color correct for typical skin tones when doing people photography. For landscape/urban photography I generally prefer Leica's colors. But for skin tone, IMO, the M's very thin sensor stack and suboptimal IR filtering messes with people's complexions, depending on the light source and quality.
Having transitioned to Canon mirrorless from DSLRs, Canon's cameras have become smaller, and along with other conveniences such as IBIS and killer people/face/eye AF tracking, and lenses like the 28-70/2, while huge in itself, has in some ways 'freed' me from certain previous constraints. As a result I find myself using my Canon system for a lot more of what I previously used the M system. But I just spent a couple days only using the M. It was a great experience and reminded me what I like so much about the system. I think I might want to make it more of a 'snapshot' system now, by which I mean walk-around, typically stopped down photography, for which I don't need Lux lens speed and therefore can downsize the kit with smaller, slower lenses in place of those....Show more →
