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Leica M11 discontinued

  
 
1bwana1
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p.6 #1 · Leica M11 discontinued


Fred Miranda wrote:
I actually prefer that it doesn't have all those high-tech features. I like keeping things simple, with no temptation to connect it to a phone or charge it like one... Maybe Leica should focus on pushing new tech in their EVF models while keeping the rangefinder version more basic, with fewer features and no connectivity.

Don't get me wrong, I do appreciate the latest technological innovations, but for that, I prefer other cameras.


Here we disagree. Full use of USB capabilities has been a great addition to the M line of. It is more simple, and streamlines workflow in so many ways.

No more bottom plate to remove and reinstall when you want to charge the battery, or move your image files to you computer. Just plug in the USB cable and both are done. No more charging accessories cluttering up your desktop, or taking space when traveling. Driving around, stopping shooting for refreshments, stuck in an airport lounge, shooting lots of video in studio, out on an extended camping trip away from power sources? Just plug into USB keep the battery charged or running indefinitely. Hassle free. Use it to connect to you phone only if that adds something for you. Otherwise don't. I have never used it for that as I depend on wireless to work with the Fotos APP.

All that is so much more powerful, problem eliminating, lower workload, than in prior cameras. In comparison, removing an attachment that simulates a legacy film loading system makes no sense to me. Like the "D" series cameras it seem more likemind game with oneself than anything else.

USB features are are a technology that offers huge benefits to users. It is not tech for tech sakes, or box front features like so many others these days. You will use it, and benefit from it every time you use the camera. All my Leica cameras now have this. I have a USB cable always hooked up to my home compute desk station. Whichever camera I used that day I just plug in the USB when I get home. Files transfered, battery charged, everything internal to the camera. No need to manage different battery types, card types, or anything else. The workflow is identical, and simple as it acn be.



Apr 10, 2025 at 11:28 AM
Fred Miranda
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p.6 #2 · Leica M11 discontinued


1bwana1 wrote:
Here we disagree. Full use of USB capabilities has been a great addition to the M line of. It is more simple, and streamlines workflow in so many ways.

No more bottom plate to remove and reinstall when you want to charge the battery, or move your image files to you computer. Just plug in the USB cable and both are done. No more charging accessories cluttering up your desktop, or taking space when traveling. Driving around, stopping shooting for refreshments, stuck in an airport lounge, shooting lots of video in studio, out on an extended camping trip away from
...Show more

I know that many photographers, probably the majority, might see things differently, but this is just my personal and honest experience. I don't find myself valuing the electronic advancements on my Leica M as much as I do with my other mirrorless cameras. When I shoot with my M, I prefer to have all the distractions minimized. But I completely understand that this is a very personal and subjective experience.

Yes, I'm one of those people who actually appreciate the removable bottom plate.

Don't worry, though...there is no indication that Leica is taking my opinion on this matter to heart!



Apr 10, 2025 at 12:37 PM
gordec
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p.6 #3 · Leica M11 discontinued


Anyone else sent their M11s in for color calibration to get rid of the magenta cast? I still see M11 pictures in the forums with clear magenta cast. It's probably my biggest knock on it. I'm consider getting a M11 again that's still in warranty and send it in.


Apr 10, 2025 at 12:38 PM
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p.6 #4 · Leica M11 discontinued


gordec wrote:
Anyone else sent their M11s in for color calibration to get rid of the magenta cast? I still see M11 pictures in the forums with clear magenta cast. It's probably my biggest knock on it. I'm consider getting a M11 again that's still in warranty and send it in.


In Lightroom, try reducing the tint to -10 (shifting from magenta to green). That should fix the issue for most of your images. Shooting with custom white balance (like using a gray card) won't make much of a difference, as some have reported.

I do this for all my M11 images to ensure they have a neutral tint. It's hard to believe Leica hasn't addressed this in a firmware update since it's such a consistent variable. So much time has passed without a fix that photographers have now gotten used to the new 'magenta' Leica look.



Apr 10, 2025 at 12:43 PM
gordec
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p.6 #5 · Leica M11 discontinued


Fred Miranda wrote:
In Lightroom, try reducing the tint to -10 (shifting from magenta to green). That should fix the issue for most of your images. Shooting with custom white balance (like using a gray card) won't make much of a difference, as some have reported.

I do this for all my M11 images to ensure they have a neutral tint. It's hard to believe Leica hasn't addressed this in a firmware update since it's such a consistent variable. So much time has passed without a fix that photographers have now gotten used to the new 'magenta' Leica look.


Did you go back to M11? I thought you are still rocking M10R BP. Someone in the forums was telling me M11 color calibration can only be corrected it when you send it in. It doesn't make sense to me, but he mailed it in to Leica and they did it. I'm like why can't firmware update do that.



Apr 10, 2025 at 01:05 PM
1bwana1
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p.6 #6 · Leica M11 discontinued


gordec wrote:
Anyone else sent their M11s in for color calibration to get rid of the magenta cast? I still see M11 pictures in the forums with clear magenta cast. It's probably my biggest knock on it. I'm consider getting a M11 again that's still in warranty and send it in.


Wouldn't it be easier to just have a custom profile that is auto applied on import to LightRoom that handles color to your preferences?



Apr 10, 2025 at 01:28 PM
gordec
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p.6 #7 · Leica M11 discontinued


1bwana1 wrote:
Wouldn't it be easier to just have a custom profile that is auto applied on import to LightRoom that handles color to your preferences?


It's weird, I still have my old M11 files. I played with them again last week in LR. I just can't get them to look just like M10R files. It may be subjective since I don't have picture taken at the same time with the same lens.



Apr 10, 2025 at 01:53 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.6 #8 · Leica M11 discontinued


gordec wrote:
Did you go back to M11? I thought you are still rocking M10R BP. Someone in the forums was telling me M11 color calibration can only be corrected it when you send it in. It doesn't make sense to me, but he mailed it in to Leica and they did it. I'm like why can't firmware update do that.


I shoot with both but mainly use the M11 when testing resolution in reviews.



Apr 10, 2025 at 02:05 PM
crf59
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p.6 #9 · Leica M11 discontinued


I have had no issues with color cast on either of my M11s. I also own an M10R and M10-P and they are all very similar in color rendering. Not doubting your experience as I did have an M10 that was wonky in that regard and replaced it.

The sensor used in the M11s is a Sony and it's very good. Any color cast should be a result of processing and so should be changeable in post easily. Presets should work.

For what it's worth, I get better color (to my taste) out of the M11s than the M10R. I think the M10R has this mystical reputation that is perhaps overdone a tad. I think the M11 files are better in every way to the M10R. On the other hand, the M11s initially drove me crazy with the occasional lockup which the M10R never displayed, but the recent firmware has fixed the occasional issue in my M11s.

Off topic, but the feature that clearly makes the M11 superior to any previous M is off-sensor metering. It is MUCH better than any other M in that regard.

Edited on Apr 10, 2025 at 05:59 PM · View previous versions



Apr 10, 2025 at 05:54 PM
 


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wdshuck
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p.6 #10 · Leica M11 discontinued


I use Fred’s method for my images and it seems to work well for me! I had an A7RIV so definitely remember seeing a strong magenta cast on the similar sensor.

Fred Miranda wrote:
In Lightroom, try reducing the tint to -10 (shifting from magenta to green). That should fix the issue for most of your images. Shooting with custom white balance (like using a gray card) won't make much of a difference, as some have reported.

I do this for all my M11 images to ensure they have a neutral tint. It's hard to believe Leica hasn't addressed this in a firmware update since it's such a consistent variable. So much time has passed without a fix that photographers have now gotten used to the new 'magenta' Leica look.




Apr 10, 2025 at 05:57 PM
serhan_
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p.6 #11 · Leica M11 discontinued


So new release of M11 100 years version is becoming collectible...

Leica M11 100 YEARS OF LEICA:
One of the main highlights of our celebrations is the launch of the Leica M11 100 YEARS OF LEICA. This anniversary edition of the iconic rangefinder camera with the highly sought-after glossy black paint finish appears in 6 different country versions in total, with 100 units of each available for purchase. The variants of the Leica M11 100 YEARS OF LEICA differ in that they each feature individual engravings and special serial numbers, and can be considered real rarities thanks to their unique characteristics.

https://leica-camera.com/en-US/photography/100-years-products?utm_source=CRM&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=20250410_HQ_US_CNL2_ALL_100#m11



Apr 10, 2025 at 07:38 PM
RustyBug
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p.6 #12 · Leica M11 discontinued


Tariq Gibran wrote:
I would think IBIS would be the most important update, way more so than a tilt screen. There is probably even a very strong argument to be made for NO rear screen whatsoever(ala M-D) since one would have the EVF finder. That would save a bit of body thickness as well and perhaps maintain the minimalist aesthetics of the M. For me, that would be the ideal.

The below image is the bottom of the Sony A7cr with tilt screen and IBIS. I don't have one around to measure but it if we knew the distance from where the tilt
...Show more

I wasn't suggesting that Tilt should come before IBIS ... just that it might take the engineers longer to get IBIS in the M where they want it "to their standards", than it will take them to put in the tilt display. +1 that IBIS would be PREFERRED along with the EVF ... and a -D version (i.e. no LCD back, but EVF) with IBIS would be the cat's meow for a lot of folks.


On the different note about USB ... yeah, I'd like to have a USB in ALL my cameras. Having different batteries for my M246 / M10R and SL/Q bodies ... three different batteries types, three different chargers.

And, in the ETHOS of Leica of "less is more" to "get things out of the way" ... yeah, get the matter of battery management out of the way. I'm definitely a fan of USB charging. It's very nice to be able to plug in while I'm driving to top off the battery on my commute, etc.

As is ... too dang many different batteries to my temperament. USB unifies all that ... and "gets out of the way". For me, the bottom plate is fine, if they would just all have the same battery, etc. On board storage is okay, but I'm okay with SD cards too.

Battery management is my "pain point" ... gimme USB any day, every day.



Apr 10, 2025 at 09:51 PM
1bwana1
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p.6 #13 · Leica M11 discontinued


IBIS is like getting a huge sensor upgrade. Using my SL3 I am easily able to get sharp images shooting 4 stops shutter speed slower than I am with my M11. Keep in mind that the sensors are the same and I tested using the exact same lenses.

That means if I had to use ISO 12,500 on my M11 I could use ISO 600. That results in a huge step up in image quality in both lower noise and higher dynamic range. I suspect it will be may years before sensors improve that much.

Far from being a modern gimic that lessens the authenticity of a camera, it provides real value to users.



Apr 10, 2025 at 10:09 PM
philip_pj
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p.6 #14 · Leica M11 discontinued


How often percentage-wise do users need, not want, ISOs in the 12000s? Even at f2 and usable s/s, you will be in negative LV territory. Sony did a lot of early work manufacturing pleasant and post-workable noise quality. Some like the gritty look.

I believe it's important to stay functional in low light without the weight/bulk/cost overheads of IBIS, a baby and bathwater issue. Tech always threatens skills. Watch cashiers wait for the change calc from the money drawer.



Apr 11, 2025 at 12:03 AM
1bwana1
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p.6 #15 · Leica M11 discontinued


philip_pj wrote:
How often percentage-wise do users need, not want, ISOs in the 12000s? Even at f2 and usable s/s, you will be in negative LV territory. Sony did a lot of early work manufacturing pleasant and post-workable noise quality. Some like the gritty look.

I believe it's important to stay functional in low light without the weight/bulk/cost overheads of IBIS, a baby and bathwater issue. Tech always threatens skills. Watch cashiers wait for the change calc from the money drawer.


I often find myself having to shoot at high ISO with my M11. Low light in early morning, evening, and low light interiors in European cities, combined with some degree of stopped down aperture are common in my shooting. In addition at 73 years old with inherited essential tremors (right hand treatment helped a lot) in my hands I am not as steady as I once was. No amount of working on skills make up for these. IBIS is a gift from heaven in this regard.



Apr 11, 2025 at 12:20 AM
RustyBug
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p.6 #16 · Leica M11 discontinued


1bwana1 wrote:
I often find myself having to shoot at high ISO with my M11. Low light in early morning, evening, and low light interiors in European cities, combined with some degree of stopped down aperture are common in my shooting. In addition at 73 years old with inherited essential tremors (right hand treatment helped a lot) in my hands I am not as steady as I once was. No amount of working on skills make up for these. IBIS is a gift from heaven in this regard.


Hey Steve, I hear ya.

Back when ... I could shoot hand held well under the 1:1 rule of thumb. I got away from things for a while, then got a bunch of OIS lenses, and when I tried to shoot some manual glass without OIS, I found out how badly my skills had retarded. I totally sucked and needed about 4:1. Pretty pathetic (my internal assessment).

That was pre-Leica M. Today, I'm good with 1:1 and with care, I'll step below that a smidge. So yeah, there is a skill level involved. For some, developing that skill is of little / no interest to them. They'd vastly prefer the convenience of IBIS. I won't deny BOTH its effectiveness and its convenience. It has come a long way since first being introduced.

But, then too ... ISO has come a long way, as well. And, so has NR. I guess my perspective is that I do recognize the value of IBIS. But, I won't let the lack of IBIS deter me, even if it does mean I need to make some adjustments, accommodations or concessions in using a tool of choice that doesn't have IBIS. The tech is understood and appreciated, but not a hard requirement. A "can do" spirit will continue with or without IBIS, and not be deterred.


That said, as my eyes are slowly aging ... I'm beginning to more appreciate the EVF vs. RF challenges that tech helps with. Same could be said for folks whose skills aren't in the 1:1 or below territory. No blood, no foul ... we're human and we all have our limits of performance that we A) inherently are capable of, and B) have developed our skill level toward.

As an aside, I'm gonna get smoked in tournament tonight, playing out of my league (they had to move me from the newbie bracket to the big boys, due to lack of entrants in my group). I have to accept the limits of my skills (realistically vs. pro level player), but I'm gonna still step on the court and give it the gusto that I can muster, and learn from it along the way. What I learn, and what it takes to develop those skills ... yeah, developing skill takes dedicated effort.

IBIS doesn't require the same level of dedicated effort as slow shutter, non-IBIS does. Just a human nature thing ... all good, either way. We should be aware of our limits and either work within them, or work toward improving them. Either way is fine. Just kinda depends on the individual temperament.

That said, some days my temperament is different than others ... but, I'll still not be deterred if I find myself without IBIS in a svelte body vs. if I find myself with IBIS in a monster, brick body. I'll work within the limits of the tool and my skills ... whatever combination that might be at a given time. So, yup ... somedays I'm using the M, other days it's the Q or SL. Three different levels of stabilization in the tools (i.e. none, OIS, IBIS), and I accept that there are some situations where I have to adjust my approach, depending on the tool I'm using that day. And, I equally accept that there are situations where the difference has little to no bearing on things.

I'll always be a detail-junkie at heart, but I do try and recognize that our beloved craft can tolerate less than technically perfect pixel level inspection and still be superbly, excellent imagery.

To that end, use the tool that puts a smile on your face. Either while using it, or from the results you get from it. If it ain't puttin' a smile on our face (or a smile from the dollar you make with it) ... then, we probably should be considering a different tool (traditional, techno-advanced or hybrid) that raises the "smile factor" a notch or two.

YMMV




Apr 11, 2025 at 06:47 AM
1bwana1
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p.6 #17 · Leica M11 discontinued


RustyBug wrote:
Hey Steve, I hear ya.

Back when ... I could shoot hand held well under the 1:1 rule of thumb. I got away from things for a while, then got a bunch of OIS lenses, and when I tried to shoot some manual glass without OIS, I found out how badly my skills had retarded. I totally sucked and needed about 4:1. Pretty pathetic (my internal assessment).

That was pre-Leica M. Today, I'm good with 1:1 and with care, I'll step below that a smidge. So yeah, there is a skill level involved. For some, developing that skill is of little
...Show more

As usual we think a lot alike. Having competed at a World level in three sports in my life (racing, surfing, and areobatics) I have always felt it good to play a level up. Makes you work harder. Don't worry about trophies, they end up in boxes in the garage. Enjoy the tournament.

The M11 is still my favorite camera to shoot despite missing IBIS. I have developed methods to keep the shutter speed acceptably low. Still, it will be an instant upgrade for me if they put IBIS in a future generation. Yes, the EVF is a much better composition, exposure, and focusing tool than the Range Finder. However, I love the RF experience and don't see myself giving it up.



Apr 11, 2025 at 07:36 AM
rji2goleez
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p.6 #18 · Leica M11 discontinued


RustyBug wrote:
Hey Steve, I hear ya.

Back when ... I could shoot hand held well under the 1:1 rule of thumb. I got away from things for a while, then got a bunch of OIS lenses, and when I tried to shoot some manual glass without OIS, I found out how badly my skills had retarded. I totally sucked and needed about 4:1. Pretty pathetic (my internal assessment).

That was pre-Leica M. Today, I'm good with 1:1 and with care, I'll step below that a smidge. So yeah, there is a skill level involved. For some, developing that skill is of little
...Show more

I couldn't agree with you guys more. My aging eyes can still handle the RF but I see more and more value to EVF (and AF). And as you say, with post processing tools for sharpening and noise reduction that have evolved, I've been shooting with my camera on auto ISO for many years now. While I will never move away from Leica, my new Fuji GFX 100S II is a game changer whether I use native AF lenses or zoomed in focus peaking with adapted lenses. Both systems put a smile on my face!



Apr 11, 2025 at 09:58 AM
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