MikeEvangelist wrote:
Cool image! Is that a helicopter rig?
Yes. This particular image was from 2016 while filming in Dubai, also used this setup in Los Angeles and England that year. Some tremendous night cinematography was possible with this setup. At the time there weren't exactly a lot of high speed and clean options for the RED VV format, so I modified my Otus primes to do exactly this.
Zeiss just posted a teaser photo of their new lens—it looks great. I haven’t been excited about a new lens in a long time. Recently, I repurchased most of the Loxia lenses because I hadn’t felt inspired to shoot in a while. There’s something about Zeiss that makes me want to get out and take photos, knowing I’ll come home with something special. Hopefully, it’s not a $5,000 lens!
I wouldn't be surprised if the new consumer lenses are an adaptation of that design.
I have similar thoughts, particularly now the Zeiss Lead Designer for that system commented ( summarized by CineD):" ...ZEISS also had access to much more modern, fully digitized design processes now, which allows them to fully design lenses on the computer before they put them into reality."
Who knows, maybe like the set of Zeiss Nano Primes released just last year, we might end up with a "set" of new Zeiss Emount lenses instead of just the one teaser...but I may be getting ahead of myself ha ha
I was excited at first for the Batis line. I liked where it was going. My biggest issue is it was never completed in my opinion.
Take a look at the ZF2 lineup we has 15mm, 18mm, 21mm, 25mm, 28mm, 35mm, 50mm, 85mm, 100mm, 135mm. The Batis lineup has 18mm, 25mm, 40mm, 85mm, 135mm. That's 10 vs 5 focal lengths to chose from. The ZF2 lineup even had more options as there was multiple 25mm, 35mm, and 50mm options.
Some of those missing focal lengths I feel are Zeiss classics like the 21mm f2.8, 35mm f2, 50mm f2 macro, and 100mm f2 macro.
If I want to get a bit more critical I also feel the Batis and Loxia ranges struggled a bit from trying to figure out the mirrorless world, just like some of Sony's first mirrorless lenses. Granted I think Zeiss could have overcome this like Sony by offering more or even version 2 of some lenses.
On a stylistic note coming from Zeiss in the DSLR days I think of Zeiss lenses as high quality metal manual focus lenses, which is why I also made the ZF2 comparison. But I wouldn't be opposed to having more of a plastic build and larger lenses if AF was included. If Zeiss added 2-3 more lenses to the Batis series I could esially sea me adding a Batis set to my kit.
p.6 #10 · ZEISS Otus ML line officially announced!
DWOfPaul wrote:
A bit late on the reply here.
I was excited at first for the Batis line. I liked where it was going. My biggest issue is it was never completed in my opinion.
Take a look at the ZF2 lineup we has 15mm, 18mm, 21mm, 25mm, 28mm, 35mm, 50mm, 85mm, 100mm, 135mm. The Batis lineup has 18mm, 25mm, 40mm, 85mm, 135mm. That's 10 vs 5 focal lengths to chose from. The ZF2 lineup even had more options as there was multiple 25mm, 35mm, and 50mm options.
Some of those missing focal lengths I feel are Zeiss classics like the 21mm f2.8, 35mm f2, 50mm f2 macro, and 100mm f2 macro.
If I want to get a bit more critical I also feel the Batis and Loxia ranges struggled a bit from trying to figure out the mirrorless world, just like some of Sony's first mirrorless lenses. Granted I think Zeiss could have overcome this like Sony by offering more or even version 2 of some lenses.
On a stylistic note coming from Zeiss in the DSLR days I think of Zeiss lenses as high quality metal manual focus lenses, which is why I also made the ZF2 comparison. But I wouldn't be opposed to having more of a plastic build and larger lenses if AF was included. If Zeiss added 2-3 more lenses to the Batis series I could esially sea me adding a Batis set to my kit. ...Show more →
The Batis 25, 40 and 85 is all I really need for my travel / documentary photography. If I need wider, which is very rare, I take the Sony 20 or can purchase the Batis 18. I really don’t need a ton of lenses to choose from.
I do have the ze line ( 21, 35, 100 ) for my landscape photography, but they are much to heavy to do street / documentary photography.
p.6 #11 · ZEISS Otus ML line officially announced!
My biggest hope is that the new set of lenses is not as huge …
The Batis line had too large casings for the f-stops on offer.
The Loxia line was fine sizewise but rather heavy.
The Otus line is just too huge. And lenses around 1kg and more, who is ever going to take a set outside the studio?
Looking forward to new Zeiss lenses for travelling, but I fear I will be disapointed.
Where are the modern small and lightweight 14-18mm lenses?
Where are the lightweight and small 75 to 135mm lenses?
p.6 #12 · ZEISS Otus ML line officially announced!
The likely source for these new E-mount lenses is the Nano cine range, because the non-trivial R&D and QA processes have been done and they were made specifically for Sony E-mount cine cameras (all 5-6 of them, from Venice 2 to FX3) as their main reason for existence.
The joke on Zeiss is that these full body relativey huge Nano lenses (see the videos earlier in thread) are already lighter than the Otus series, for most of them. That's how egregious the Otus line was for mirrorless applications.
I hope they do better than the Nanos have done over the past year. They have - according to a number of industry figures - unacceptable levels of CA and wer see grind marks showing on their bokeh balls. Must be all that 'much more modern, fully digitized design processes' at work. Beware their PR, they are much better at it than the follow through. But just as the past is another country, lens producers come and go. They went and now they want back!
The Nanos are otherwise more suited to trad Zeiss stills users' sensibilities, having excellent corners and not too much vignette and breathing is under control, pretty much. They are watered down Supremes, with little character - part of the reason why the cine lens revolution is happening. They have a lot of catch up to do. Their fastest MF lenses designed for Sony were f2 items designed back for the ZM range, 20 years ago, then turned into Loxias. The fastest Batis is f1.8.
A lot of photographers will buy them on the name alone, and that is something they will be aware of. They need a better ergo/haptics adviser too. None of them have been good to handle since the ZM/ZF ranges. And better names, more masculine please.
p.6 #14 · ZEISS Otus ML line officially announced!
Thanks for sharing the photo, Mike! I’ve been a member of this forum for almost a decade now, and I still can’t seem to figure out how to post a picture. Haha!
MikeEvangelist wrote:
Like the aesthetic! (what we can see of it)
p.6 #15 · ZEISS Otus ML line officially announced!
M lens versions are most unlikely due to the diameter of the f1.4 lenses, particularly the longer focal lengths which simply cannot be reduced a great deal. These are E-mount optics that will be easily altered to fit Z-mount (16mm flange focal distance) and RF-mount (20mm FFD). Zeiss made a point of saying the short FFD is the reason for the size reduction over the regular cine lens formats (like PL). All assuming the re-use of the Nanos. They might yet spring a surprise on us.
p.6 #16 · ZEISS Otus ML line officially announced!
This is a great way to tier products. Offer their cine lens designs but in photo lens housings and charge substantially less. High margins but low volume in cine; low margins but high volume in photo.
Why buy the Athenes in photo housings? It’s the way to experience Zeiss’ current approach to imagery. Graceful fade to defocus is the selling point of the Supremes, and finally for Zeiss, bokeh-conscious design. The high loca suggests they still care about the 3D pop.
The idea of “updating” lenses is a little foreign to Zeiss I think. They are accustomed to having lifecycles in the decades.
They never saw themselves as being out of the photo market. As far as they are concerned, they have a pretty good lineup there with the Loxias and Batis. That’s how they think.
p.6 #18 · ZEISS Otus ML line officially announced!
kotmj wrote:
The idea of “updating” lenses is a little foreign to Zeiss I think. They are accustomed to having lifecycles in the decades.
What about the Milvus line? It replaced most of the ZE/ZF "Classic" lenses. Apparently most were cosmetic updates, other than the new 50 and 85 optical designs.
p.6 #19 · ZEISS Otus ML line officially announced!
rscheffler wrote:
What about the Milvus line? It replaced most of the ZE/ZF "Classic" lenses. Apparently most were cosmetic updates, other than the new 50 and 85 optical designs.
I think the Milvus is for the DSLR with its sensor stack. The Classic was for film.
The radii of the lens elements would have changed as the Classic optical designs were adapted for digital sensors. So a mechanical redesign was necessary.
Zeiss will eventually get the hang of Sony’s “lens designs will be updated every 10 years”. It sells products. Sony and Fujifilm are doing it this way now.
p.6 #20 · ZEISS Otus ML line officially announced!
I think most of Zeiss’ photo and cine lenses are designed by Thomas Steinich nowadays. Product manager remains Christoph Casenave who did all the Touits and Loxias etc
