p.1 #2 · lightweight M 28 lenses - simple question
I haven't read the thread, but I did buy the Elmarit from Hong Kong as the only Leica lens I have for my Leica camera. It replaced my Zeiss 28mm. Never tried any of the Voigtlanders. I'm sure they're all fine unless you pixel peep.
p.1 #3 · lightweight M 28 lenses - simple question
I bought and sold the latest version of all three lenses. I prefer the elmarit and then the f2 voigtlander and then the f2.8 voigtlander. I think the Leica has more vibrant colors and the vignetting was a lot better controlled and looked better than the voigtlander even with digital correction (which fixes it but looks a bit unnatural).
The voigtlander f2 had the best across the frame sharpness and the f2.8 voigtlander was the smallest by a tiny amount.
If I were to rebuy one of these, it would be the Leica but the voigtlanders are great value for the money.
In the end I decided that my Leica 21mm SEM can pull double duty but I mildly regret selling the elmarit and would buy it back at a good price.
p.1 #4 · lightweight M 28 lenses - simple question
tzhang4284 wrote:
I bought and sold the latest version of all three lenses. I prefer the elmarit and then the f2 voigtlander and then the f2.8 voigtlander. I think the Leica has more vibrant colors and the vignetting was a lot better controlled and looked better than the voigtlander even with digital correction (which fixes it but looks a bit unnatural).
The voigtlander f2 had the best across the frame sharpness and the f2.8 voigtlander was the smallest by a tiny amount.
If I were to rebuy one of these, it would be the Leica but the voigtlanders are great value for the money.
In the end I decided that my Leica 21mm SEM can pull double duty but I mildly regret selling the elmarit and would buy it back at a good price....Show more →
If the price and resale value of these three lenses were identical, which one would you choose and why
Voigtlander 28mm f/2.8 Color-Skopar VM
Voigtlander Ultron 28mm f/2 (either ASPH or pre ASPH)
Leica 28mm f/2.8 ASPH Elmarit-M II
It depends on what you're looking for in terms of performance. The CV 28mm f/2.8 Color-Skopar is impressive for its compact size, but it performs slightly worse wide open at f/2.8 compared to the Ultron and Summicron at the same aperture, which is expected. From my experience reviewing and using this lens, stopping down to f/3.2 improves evenness across the frame. In terms of resolution and contrast, the Color-Skopar performs similarly to the Leica Elmarit, as shown in the review's comparison.
The differences between these lenses become more noticeable when using the M11 rather than the M10-R, as the extra resolution highlights variations more clearly.
All of these lenses reach their optimal performance around f/4 to f/5.6, making the differences minimal when stopped down. My advice is to choose the smallest one or the one that feels best in terms of haptics. However, if you want the highest resolution and contrast across the frame at f/2 and f/2.8, the Ultron or Summicron would be the better choices, especially if you need top-tier performance wide open.
In terms of rendering, I find the Color-Skopar has a bit more character. The bokeh has more outlining, which I personally prefer. That's the case when comparing it to the Ultron, Summicron and Elmarit. There are times when I don't want extremely high resolution and contrast on my subject, and shooting the Color-Skopar at f/2.8 wide open works well --- sharp but not overly sharp. Having used all of them, including the Leica versions, my personal favorites for this focal length are the Voigtlander 28mm f/2.8 Color-Skopar and 28mm f/1.5 Nokton.
p.1 #6 · lightweight M 28 lenses - simple question
Fred Miranda wrote:
It depends on what you're looking for in terms of performance. The CV 28mm f/2.8 Color-Skopar is impressive for its compact size, but it performs slightly worse wide open at f/2.8 compared to the Ultron and Summicron at the same aperture, which is expected. From my experience reviewing and using this lens, stopping down to f/3.2 improves evenness across the frame. In terms of resolution and contrast, the Color-Skopar performs similarly to the Leica Elmarit, as shown in the review's comparison.
The differences between these lenses become more noticeable when using the M11 rather than the M10-R, as the extra resolution highlights variations more clearly.
All of these lenses reach their optimal performance around f/4 to f/5.6, making the differences minimal when stopped down. My advice is to choose the smallest one or the one that feels best in terms of haptics. However, if you want the highest resolution and contrast across the frame at f/2 and f/2.8, the Ultron or Summicron would be the better choices, especially if you need top-tier performance wide open.
In terms of rendering, I find the Color-Skopar has a bit more character. The bokeh has more outlining, which I personally prefer. That's the case when comparing it to the Ultron, Summicron and Elmarit. There are times when I don't want extremely high resolution and contrast on my subject, and shooting the Color-Skopar at f/2.8 wide open works well --- sharp but not overly sharp. Having used all of them, including the Leica versions, my personal favorites for this focal length are the Voigtlander 28mm f/2.8 Color-Skopar and 28mm f/1.5 Nokton....Show more →
thanks and interesting.
I've got the 28 1.5 Nokton and am not blown away by its pics (examples: https://brick.smugmug.com/Photography/2024-9-1-Cherokee-rodeo), and especially not in love with its size/weight which is why I've been looking around at small/light alternatives.
p.1 #7 · lightweight M 28 lenses - simple question
brick33308 wrote:
thanks and interesting.
I've got the 28 1.5 Nokton and am not blown away by its pics (examples: https://brick.smugmug.com/Photography/2024-9-1-Cherokee-rodeo), and especially not in love with its size/weight which is why I've been looking around at small/light alternatives.
You're welcome! If the size and weight of the 28mm f/1.5 Nokton feel too much, the Leica 28mm f/1.4 Summilux would be even less appealing. I switched to the Nokton because it's noticeably lighter and more compact, while the performance and rendering are nearly identical.
As for the CV 28mm f/2.8, I mentioned earlier that it doesn't perform as well away from the center when wide open compared to other lenses. However, this is largely due to its more pronounced field curvature. In my infinity tests, I focus on the center when assessing other areas, but if you were to focus on the mid-field, its performance would be better than it appears in those tests.
p.1 #8 · lightweight M 28 lenses - simple question
Fred Miranda wrote:
You're welcome! If the size and weight of the 28mm f/1.5 Nokton feel too much, the Leica 28mm f/1.4 Summilux would be even less appealing. I switched to the Nokton because it's noticeably lighter and more compact, while the performance and rendering are nearly identical.
As for the CV 28mm f/2.8, I mentioned earlier that it doesn't perform as well away from the center when wide open compared to other lenses. However, this is largely due to its more pronounced field curvature. In my infinity tests, I focus on the center when assessing other areas, but if you were to focus on the mid-field, its performance would be better than it appears in those tests....Show more →
if price/value were equal, would you take the CV 28/2.8 or Leica 28mm f/2.8 ASPH Elmarit-M II?
p.1 #9 · lightweight M 28 lenses - simple question
brick33308 wrote:
if price/value were equal, would you take the CV 28/2.8 or Leica 28mm f/2.8 ASPH Elmarit-M II?
Yes, I prefer the rendering of the CV 28mm f/2.8. The Elmarit's transitions feels overly smooth and modern to me, though some may prefer it for that reason. The Voigtlander is also more compact/lighter, especially with their hoods attached.
I just took these images to show how the CV 28mm f/2.8’s field curvature can make it seem weaker in the mid-field. However, when focusing on the mid-field, that area performs noticeably better --- though at the expense of center sharpness.
Center area at f/2.8: LEFT focused at center, Right focused at mid-field
Mid-field area at f/2.8: LEFT focused at center, Right focused at mid-field
If the price and resale value of these three lenses were identical, which one would you choose and why
Voigtlander 28mm f/2.8 Color-Skopar VM
Voigtlander Ultron 28mm f/2 (either ASPH or pre ASPH)
Leica 28mm f/2.8 ASPH Elmarit-M II
I currently have and use both the CV 28/2.0 Version I lens and the Leica 28/2.8 pre-ASPH lens. I tested them side by side, and I didn't see any difference in image quality whatsoever just that the CV is one stop faster. Here a comparison at f/8.0 which I made a few years ago on my Leica M-E 240 camera from the same tripod position:
Leica 28/2.8 Elmarit-M
CV 28/2.0 Ultron-M
If you look closely at the upper left corner, the Leica lens is a tiny bit wider than the CV lens, but it is very marginal.
p.1 #11 · lightweight M 28 lenses - simple question
Fred Miranda wrote:
Yes, I prefer the rendering of the CV 28mm f/2.8. The Elmarit's transitions feels overly smooth and modern to me, though some may prefer it for that reason. The Voigtlander is also more compact/lighter, especially with their hoods attached.
I just took these images to show how the CV 28mm f/2.8’s field curvature can make it seem weaker in the mid-field. However, when focusing on the mid-field, that area performs noticeably better --- though at the expense of center sharpness.
thanks Fred for those images.
In the thread I originally linked there was discussion of applying the Leica 28mm Summaron 6-bit code (110001) to the Voigtländer 28mm f/2.8 Color-Skopar in order to reduce vignetting. Does that apply to both Type I and Type II of the Voigtlander? And is this the correct sequence: Black – White – White – White – White – Black?
Finally it seems that the differences between I and II are basically cosmetic, with the II being slightly lighter and shorter, but both having identical optics. Correct?
p.1 #12 · lightweight M 28 lenses - simple question
I have the CV 28 Color Skopar II, CV 28 Ultron II, Leica 28 Elmarit, and an older Zeiss Biogon (with a little wobble).
All are good, but the latest Elmarit, in my opinion, is the best lens. Smooth transitions, good colors and contrast, and small size. I had a 28mm Summicron (pre- screw on hood) and it was simply not as good as the Elmarit-M. The new 28mm Summicron is great (rented one), but it's expensive relative to the use I would get out of it.
p.1 #13 · lightweight M 28 lenses - simple question
I have the Ultron 28/2 and the Elmarit 28/2.8 asph II. I really like them both, and they are both very sharp. If I had to choose, I would, without any hesitation, choose the Ultron. It is a stop faster, slightly sharper everywhere at f2.8, and the slightly larger size is negligible.
The only reason I keep the Elmarit is that when fitted to my M246 it slides into a leather belt pouch more easily than the Ultron, and can pair well with the Rokkor 40/2 as a very light and petite two lens set. The Ultron pairs more regularly with the Typoch 50/1.4 for when I really want the last degree of sharpness, and I’m prepared to take a small camera bag.
p.1 #14 · lightweight M 28 lenses - simple question
brick33308 wrote:
thanks Fred for those images.
You're welcome!
In the thread I originally linked there was discussion of applying the Leica 28mm Summaron 6-bit code (110001) to the Voigtländer 28mm f/2.8 Color-Skopar in order to reduce vignetting. Does that apply to both Type I and Type II of the Voigtlander? And is this the correct sequence: Black – White – White – White – White – Black?
Yes, the same code applies to both Type I and Type II, as they share the same optical formula. I've compared them, and the results were identical. The differences are primarily aesthetic.
For the code: 1 = black and 0 = white
Finally it seems that the differences between I and II are basically cosmetic, with the II being slightly lighter and shorter, but both having identical optics. Correct?
It's mostly cosmetic, as you mentioned. However, the Type II has a shorter minimum focus distance of 0.5m, which is an advantage, though it only works with Live View. I own the Type I in black paint brass, and while its MFD is 0.7m, I prefer its feel and look on my black paint bodies.. One drawback of the Type I is that the aperture and focusing ring are linked, requiring you to set the aperture before focusing. Also, the Type I is heavier than the Type II due to its brass construction versus aluminum.
p.1 #15 · lightweight M 28 lenses - simple question
I'm still torn between the Voigt 28 color skopar Vii and the 28 summicron, and I'm worried my Leica bias will cause me to skip the Voigt
Actually I have a friend who's a serious Leica gear enthusiast and collector. He sold me my mint version of the 50/2 rigid for so little that I'm embarrassed, and he says he has an extra 28 elmarit that he'll tell me about tomorrow when he gets back in town.
that was partly the reason for my lead in to my initial post - if price/resale value were equal, which lens would you get. But if he offers me an incredible price, I'll probably go for it. One thing for sure - I don't need a fast 28 and when I get back to my house where my Leica original boxes are stored, I'll probably sell my Voigt 28/1.5 Nokton.
p.1 #16 · lightweight M 28 lenses - simple question
Not sure which Summicron version you're looking at, but I'm very happy with the Summicron CF. It's not the smallest lens on your list, but I spend most of my time in 28mm so spending the extra money plus the close focusing, hood built in and wide open Karbe-style performance was a no brainer.
p.1 #17 · lightweight M 28 lenses - simple question
johnvanr wrote:
I haven't read the thread, but I did buy the Elmarit from Hong Kong as the only Leica lens I have for my Leica camera. It replaced my Zeiss 28mm. Never tried any of the Voigtlanders. I'm sure they're all fine unless you pixel peep.
Actually, that used to be the case. Now, if you pixel peep, you might be surprised that it's actually better than the Leica.
