fredmiranda.com
Login

Moderated by: Fred Miranda
  New fredmiranda.com Mobile Site
  New Feature: SMS Notification alert
  New Feature: Buy & Sell Watchlist
  

FM Forums | Leica & Alternative Gear | Join Upload & Sell

1              3       end
  

Archive 2025 · Do you prefer softer lenses on Digital M bodies?

  
 
Pindy
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: On
p.2 #1 · Do you prefer softer lenses on Digital M bodies?


jackalooope wrote:
I have a pre-ASPH 35 lux that has great results paired with m10p, but it performs poorly on my film camera. So I like to use sharper lenses on my film body. For 50mm, I have LLL Cooke Speed Panchro II and I like the soft rendering on my m10p.


Perhaps counterintuitively, I'm thinking that the older Summilux—so often with its compromises in order to achieve speed—might be a generally good bet for an M10M. All the things that are complained about in reviews, particularly in today's climate where there is good competition from inexpensive lensmakers, some aspects that might make an older Lux less desirable might just be the ticket for me.

The v4/v5 Cron 50mm is also a very good deal from what I can gather.



Jan 14, 2025 at 04:07 PM
ZdevilH1
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.2 #2 · Do you prefer softer lenses on Digital M bodies?


My preference leans strongly towards character lenses with monochrome. When I had my m10m I shot it almost exclusively with the CV40mm f1.4 MC Classic as well as the CV35mm f1.4 classic. Takes that digital edge off a bit.


Jan 14, 2025 at 06:58 PM
JeffMD
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.2 #3 · Do you prefer softer lenses on Digital M bodies?


ZdevilH1 wrote:
My preference leans strongly towards character lenses with monochrome. When I had my m10m I shot it almost exclusively with the CV40mm f1.4 MC Classic as well as the CV35mm f1.4 classic. Takes that digital edge off a bit.


I’m a big fan of the CV 35 1.4 Classic SC. While my 50 Lux and 28 Cron are nice and sharp, sometimes I like the softer rendering of the CV.





Jan 14, 2025 at 07:51 PM
bwcolor
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #4 · Do you prefer softer lenses on Digital M bodies?


ZdevilH1 wrote:
My preference leans strongly towards character lenses with monochrome. When I had my m10m I shot it almost exclusively with the CV40mm f1.4 MC Classic as well as the CV35mm f1.4 classic. Takes that digital edge off a bit.


With regard to monochrome, what is the “digital edge”? Is this code for high resolution, or are their other unique characteristics?



Jan 14, 2025 at 07:53 PM
1bwana1
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.2 #5 · Do you prefer softer lenses on Digital M bodies?


The digital monochrome sensors don't have a color filter so gather more light, produce higher resolution, less noise, higher dynamic range. It is very noticable in the files.


Jan 14, 2025 at 08:21 PM
ZdevilH1
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.2 #6 · Do you prefer softer lenses on Digital M bodies?


bwcolor wrote:
With regard to monochrome, what is the “digital edge”? Is this code for high resolution, or are their other unique characteristics?


Clinical look. I like to throw lenses in there that have imperfections with monochromes for that old filmic look or as close as possible.



Jan 14, 2025 at 09:39 PM
crf59
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.2 #7 · Do you prefer softer lenses on Digital M bodies?


I find this an interesting discussion. I personally want my lenses to be sharp - sharp lenses can't impart an overly sharp result. They see what's there. On the other hand, "soft" lenses introduce "flaws" we call soft, glow, whatever.

I always lean towards Summilux lenses. At1.4 they have some of that softness - just a touch. But stopped down they are very sharp, so I get the best of both worlds.

I would imagine the vintage Voigtlander 1.5 lenses are similar.






Jan 16, 2025 at 07:28 AM
retrofocus
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #8 · Do you prefer softer lenses on Digital M bodies?


1bwana1 wrote:
The digital monochrome sensors don't have a color filter so gather more light, produce higher resolution, less noise, higher dynamic range. It is very noticable in the files.


+1. I can definitely see this by comparing my M 240 with my M 246 files. I gain with the M 246 about one stop of light and can crank up the ISO setting easily to 6400 which is the absolute limit on my M 240 with more noisy images at this ISO. Highlight clipping is from my experience the main debit of M 240 files - it is much better on my M 246.



Jan 16, 2025 at 08:19 AM
1bwana1
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.2 #9 · Do you prefer softer lenses on Digital M bodies?




retrofocus wrote:
+1. I can definitely see this by comparing my M 240 with my M 246 files. I gain with the M 246 about one stop of light and can crank up the ISO setting easily to 6400 which is the absolute limit on my M 240 with more noisy images at this ISO. Highlight clipping is from my experience the main debit of M 240 files - it is much better on my M 246.


I regularly shoot my M10-M at ISO 25,000 and occasionally at ISO 50,000 with great results. Magnificent sensor.



Jan 16, 2025 at 08:29 AM
retrofocus
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #10 · Do you prefer softer lenses on Digital M bodies?


1bwana1 wrote:
I regularly shoot my M10-M at ISO 25,000 and occasionally at ISO 50,000 with great results. Magnificent sensor.


Yes, biggest step up of the newer monochrome M cameras is the high ISO performance. I recently took quite a number of photos in the night and in dim light situations and never needed to exceed ISO 6400.



Jan 16, 2025 at 10:20 AM
Pindy
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: On
p.2 #11 · Do you prefer softer lenses on Digital M bodies?




crf59 wrote:
I find this an interesting discussion. I personally want my lenses to be sharp - sharp lenses can't impart an overly sharp result. They see what's there. On the other hand, "soft" lenses introduce "flaws" we call soft, glow, whatever.

I always lean towards Summilux lenses. At1.4 they have some of that softness - just a touch. But stopped down they are very sharp, so I get the best of both worlds.

I would imagine the vintage Voigtlander 1.5 lenses are similar.


I think this is where I’m landing too. Much as I’m attracted to the tiny RF lens thing (the 28 Elmarit is a great example), I’m never going to have a big lens collection, with lots of FL redundancy. A couple Lux-or-equivalent lenses should get me where I want to go for any occasion. I don’t see the wide open IQ deficits as negative per se. I’m now seriously considering the ver 1 ASPH 50 used. It’s clearly not the bargain value of the Thypoch 50 1.4, but it’s a classic for a reason.



Jan 16, 2025 at 10:34 AM
Nifty Fifty
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #12 · Do you prefer softer lenses on Digital M bodies?


crf59 wrote:
(...) sharp lenses can't impart an overly sharp result. They see what's there.


Personally, I see this completely differently. At least when it comes to digital photography. Sharpness is great, but beyond a certain point, extreme sharpness simply repels me because it does NOT reflect the world as I perceive it.



Jan 18, 2025 at 05:02 AM
brick33308
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.2 #13 · Do you prefer softer lenses on Digital M bodies?


I've shot digital ever since I last shot film in the early 80's. Recently I've come back to film but of course still love shooting digital. I completely understand your point of view because I share it. When I shoot film, except for a couple of instances shooting color which doesn't really move me, I shoot b/w film. And when I shoot digital, it's almost always b/w.

Like you, although I've got some super sharp lenses (like the 35 APO M), I mainly go for character that certain lenses impart when shot wide open.

Here are 2 links, both of them images shot with my M11M. First one is with the summilux 35/1.4 steel rim reissue, second is with the summicron 50/2 rigid. Both of them render wide open with that "Leca glow" that I'm obsessed with. Yes the lenses sharpen up when stopped down, but not as sharp as my clinically sharp lenses like the 35 APO.

https://brick.smugmug.com/Photography/2024-8-24-Asheville-downtown

https://brick.smugmug.com/Photography/2024-12-19-Key-West-Walk-on-White-St



Jan 18, 2025 at 11:08 AM
bwcolor
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #14 · Do you prefer softer lenses on Digital M bodies?


I think that we are discussing personal preferences. My problem is that I like both character lenses and APO. After this and another thread, I’ve been reviewing my film captures and see so much variation depending on film type, film format and lens. So reference to “filmic” is all over the place for me. Also, I think that APO lenses can, in certain situations, do a good job of conveying the moment. Here is a Voigtlander 35mm APO at f/2.0, M11M, ISO 2500:
South Korea 2024-12 by gary, on Flickr


Zeiss Biogon C 21mm f/4.5 ZM @f/11. A great small lens:

B&W Korea 2024 -20 by gary, on Flickr


Phillip Reeves Review of Zeiss Biogon C 21mm Lens



Jan 18, 2025 at 11:29 AM
Pindy
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: On
p.2 #15 · Do you prefer softer lenses on Digital M bodies?


Very informative, thanks for posting these.

brick33308 wrote:
I've shot digital ever since I last shot film in the early 80's. Recently I've come back to film but of course still love shooting digital. I completely understand your point of view because I share it. When I shoot film, except for a couple of instances shooting color which doesn't really move me, I shoot b/w film. And when I shoot digital, it's almost always b/w.

Like you, although I've got some super sharp lenses (like the 35 APO M), I mainly go for character that certain lenses impart when shot wide open.

Here are 2 links, both of them
...Show more



Jan 18, 2025 at 11:57 AM
brick33308
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.2 #16 · Do you prefer softer lenses on Digital M bodies?


bwcolor wrote:

I think that we are discussing personal preferences. My problem is that I like both character lenses and APO. After this and another thread, I’ve been reviewing my film captures and see so much variation depending on film type, film format and lens. So reference to “filmic” is all over the place for me. Also, I think that APO lenses can, in certain situations, do a good job of conveying the moment. Here is a Voigtlander 35mm APO at f/2.0, M11M, ISO 2500:
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53938519190_0ffff029ce_h.jpgSouth Korea 2024-12 by gary, on Flickr


Zeiss Biogon C 21mm f/4.5 ZM @f/11. A great small lens:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53917702755_080fa149c1_h.jpgB&W Korea by gary, on Flickr


Phillip Reeves Review of Zeiss Biogon C 21mm Lens
...Show more

since we're talking about 21mm, the ZM 21 is an interesting lens. I'd not heard about it so I looked it up because I have (and love) the Leica 21 super elmar. The ZM 21 seems a terrific value (around $450 compared to $2,300 I paid for the 21 super elmar), although it's slightly bigger/heavier, slower and not fully optimized for digital. Had I known about the ZM when I bought the super elmar, I would probably have bought it. But I can say that the images I get from the 21 super elmar are perfect for me.

https://photos.smugmug.com/Photography/2024-4-20-Asheville-train-yardflea-shop/i-D2J672g/0/KhkBPLMqwDQ5SrS64HWGvxNF6HkWFPnhJQ6PnzdrD/O/L1001621.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/Photography/2024-4-20-Asheville-train-yardflea-shop/i-k3cH32D/0/L3LT6HfFpMs6GWPFLrt2vvJgww7wmXBQVk3xcKHqQ/O/L1001631.jpg


Jan 18, 2025 at 12:10 PM
RexGig0
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.2 #17 · Do you prefer softer lenses on Digital M bodies?


I met a member of another photography forum at a coffee shop, so that he could use my M10 to see if his eyes could still use a rangefinder camera, before he ordered an M10-R. He had been using a Voigtlander Nokton 35mm f/1.4 II MC, with an M-to-L adapter, on his Leica digital CL. I captured a few test shots, myself, and was favorably impressed with the results.

A few months later, I tested a Sixties-vintage, but very clean Leica Summilux-M 35mm Version II, alongside a demonstrator first version Summilux-M 35mm ASPH FLE. While I did not have my friend’s Nokton there, for direct comparison, I realized, at that point, just how good the Nokton really is; a bit of character, a bit of non-bothersome barrel distortion, but, otherwise, a giant-killer of a lens. I dismissed all thought of hunting for a vintage Summilux-M 35mm, and realized that I would have a very difficult time justifying the cost of buying an FLE.

When I finally did buy myself a compact 35mm f/1.4 M-mount lens, it was a Re-Edition Steel Rim Summilux-M. Not being wealthy, this may remain the only Leica M lens that I buy new, rather than pre-owned.

The Nokton 35mm f/1.4 II MC is so good, that I may yet buy one, even though I have Re-Edition Steel Rim Summilux. Now and then, I will bring my M10, for color, and M Type 246 Monochrom. Having the same focal length lens, on each camera, can be an interesting exercise. My other “fast” 35mm M-mount is a quite large Zeiss Distagon 35mm f/1,4 ZM. Its size does not bother me, when using one camera, but, if working with two cameras, some amount of compactness is helpful.

Edited to add: As for the “soft” lens question, the answer is, generally, “no.” Some amount of character, yes, but I do not pursue softness, in an of itself. My Thambar-M 90mm lens certainly can be “soft,” at the wider end of its aperture range, so, is the one exception, and it remains an ongoing experiment.



Jan 18, 2025 at 12:25 PM
bwcolor
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #18 · Do you prefer softer lenses on Digital M bodies?



since we're talking about 21mm, the ZM 21 is an interesting lens. I'd not heard about it so I looked it up because I have (and love) the Leica 21 super elmar. The ZM 21 seems a terrific value (around $450 compared to $2,300 I paid for the 21 super elmar), although it's slightly bigger/heavier, slower and not fully optimized for digital. Had I known about the ZM when I bought the super elmar, I would probably have bought it. But I can say that the images I get from the 21 super elmar are perfect for me.

Yes, the review cited above suggest that prior to the M11, the compact version of the Zeiss Biogon 21mm was rather compromised. I purchased it when shooting film and didn’t use it digitally until the M11M. Both the compact 21mm and 35mm Zeiss Biogons work great on the M11M.




Jan 18, 2025 at 01:08 PM
Pindy
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: On
p.2 #19 · Do you prefer softer lenses on Digital M bodies?


Steve Spencer wrote:
Eventually, however, I replaced them with the Leica M 28 cron Asph v. I,


Steve, are we talking about 11604?



Jan 19, 2025 at 08:09 PM
Steve Spencer
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.2 #20 · Do you prefer softer lenses on Digital M bodies?


Pindy wrote:
Steve, are we talking about 11604?


Yes



Jan 19, 2025 at 09:03 PM
1              3       end




FM Forums | Leica & Alternative Gear | Join Upload & Sell

1              3       end
    
 

Welcome back
Log in to your account