p.3 #1 · Funleader to Release Lens Inspired by Leica 35/1.4 Summilux
catacore wrote:
I can't justify, other than I was cheating. And I do like their lens.
But, at least, I am not hiding behind justifications like "everything is legal, moral and ethical" just because it works for me (e.g. having "Leica rendering" without paying Leica prices).
In the particular case of the Elcan lens, as someone was wondering somewhere, "why would LLL copy such a mediocre lens" (giving that the Elcan was created with price constraints) - and the answer is "just because the original is worth 30k these days".
From my perspective, your reasoning for disparaging LLL does not make logical sense. It leaves me to wonder if you have subconscious/unconscious bias that may be affecting your judgement.
p.3 #3 · Funleader to Release Lens Inspired by Leica 35/1.4 Summilux
Fred Miranda wrote:
If, after reading the comments on this thread, you still feel that owning an LLL lens is illegal, immoral, or unethical, it might be best to sell it and move on. There's no need to carry that feeling with you. For everyone else, keep enjoying your LLL lenses!
For what it's worth, I was just asking because most people usually can't square these thoughts and will avoid a company. Not looking into critiquing catacore's choices.
p.3 #5 · Funleader to Release Lens Inspired by Leica 35/1.4 Summilux
Other Chinese companies offer something different from what LLL provides. While LLL produces "clones" of vintage Leica lenses, companies like Fundleader and Astra create lenses inspired by older Leica designs. Cosina followed a similar approach with some of their earlier lenses, such as the CV 35/1.4 and CV 50/1.1 Nokton lenses. However, they have since moved away from this practice, focusing instead on developing new and unique designs.
I support the availability of these third-party M-mount lenses, as Leica lenses can be very expensive, and not everyone can afford them or wants to spend that much. That said, it's important to note that these newly released lenses often lack the same distinctive characteristics and charm that Leica lenses are known for.
p.3 #6 · Funleader to Release Lens Inspired by Leica 35/1.4 Summilux
Fred Miranda wrote:
While LLL produces "clones" of vintage Leica lenses, companies like Fundleader and Astra create lenses inspired by older Leica designs. Cosina followed a similar approach with some of their earlier lenses, such as the CV 35/1.4 and CV 50/1.1 Nokton lenses.
[...]
That said, it's important to note that these newly released lenses often lack the same distinctive characteristics and charm that Leica lenses are known for.
I'd agree that while they're "inspired" but not always "the same," they nevertheless have "distinctive characteristics and charm," bringing back to life optical signatures from Leica as well as Carl Zeiss Jena and Meyer-Optik Gorlitz.
p.3 #7 · Funleader to Release Lens Inspired by Leica 35/1.4 Summilux
On the bright side, I discovered today that LLL makes a replica of the 12504 lens hood for just $60, compared to over $300 for an authentic Leica one. I accidentally dented my hood a while back, so I’m thinking of using the LLL hood for everyday use and keeping the Leica one stored safely.
I had hoped for a Steel Rim like one but it’s more a v2 Summilux version, it does not seem to flare or glow.
Maybe the Similar Artralab might do those things, I noticed the optical formula of the Similar is the same as their NoNikkor 35mm 1.4, it might give an idea of the expected rendering.
Honestly, it looks cool and seems to be well-built. It’s based on the Leica 35/1.4 Summilux v2 with an infinity lock, which is much rarer than the standard v2 with the plastic tab.
As I mentioned earlier, they've improved the optics, making the lens better corrected. While it might mimic the Leica's structural rendering, it won't replicate the same flare, glow, or imperfections that give the original its unique character. Having said that, many will actually prefer that as it's the case with the Voigt 35/1.4 Nokton.
p.3 #11 · Funleader to Release Lens Inspired by Leica 35/1.4 Summilux
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The photographer who took the sample photos made a comparison video with Summilux V2.
Main differences: it's a little sharper wide open and bokeh is rounder, except for some more coma (not sure what aberration it is)? The V2 made teacup bokeh.
Still no comment on whether it has 0% distortion like the original pre-ASPH.
p.3 #12 · Funleader to Release Lens Inspired by Leica 35/1.4 Summilux
raizans wrote:
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The photographer who took the sample photos made a comparison video with Summilux V2.
Main differences: it's a little sharper wide open and bokeh is rounder, except for some more coma (not sure what aberration it is)? The V2 made teacup bokeh.
Still no comment on whether it has 0% distortion like the original pre-ASPH.
I can see there's a tripod right behind her, so why not use it for this test? Since she's analyzing rendering, small differences in distance and framing can impact the results. It’s hard to say for sure, but the original Summilux v2 seems to have a slightly wider angle of view.
That aside, their rendering characteristics are different, from the outlining effect to coma and flare. The copy lens appears much sharper and higher in contrast in the center, likely due to better optical corrections.
IMO, the Voigtlander 35mm f/1.4 Nokton comes much closer to the original Leica in terms of rendering. While it's also sharper, better corrected for SA and higher in contrast, its overall rendering structure is much more similar.
Distortion correction is a major plus for the Leica though.
p.3 #13 · Funleader to Release Lens Inspired by Leica 35/1.4 Summilux
I turboscribed the Mandarin "Chris in Photography" review and used 4o to summarize findings:
Summary of Artizlab Classic 35 Lens Characteristics:
1. Lens Character:
The Artizlab Classic 35 lens closely replicates the rendering style of the Leica Summilux, particularly its busier, structured bokeh. While highlights in the bokeh may appear more circular and uniform compared to the Summilux’s "potato-shaped" or elliptical highlights, the overall background rendering remains similarly busy, with outlined highlights and a less smooth transition between focus and defocus areas. This characteristic retains much of the vintage aesthetic that the Summilux is known for.
2. Retained Flaws:
Glow: Some residual glow remains at wide apertures, particularly in high-contrast situations, although it is less pronounced than in the Summilux.
Bokeh Busyness: The Artizlab retains the Summilux's busy, structured bokeh, including outlined highlights. While some aspects, like the shape of bokeh highlights, have been refined, the overall aesthetic remains unchanged.
Minimum Focus Distance: The 1-meter minimum focus distance is a limitation for users seeking closer focusing capabilities.
3. Performance Differences with v2 Summilux:
Sharpness: The Artizlab is sharper in the center and corners wide open, providing a more modern and technically accurate rendering compared to the softer Summilux.
Flare and Contrast: With updated coatings, the Artizlab offers improved flare resistance and contrast in challenging lighting conditions, areas where the older Summilux can struggle.
Bokeh Rendering: While bokeh highlights in the Artizlab may appear more uniform, the lens maintains the Summilux's structured and busy bokeh style, contrary to claims of it being significantly "smoother."
4. Build Quality Comparison:
Artizlab: The build quality is solid, with smooth focus and aperture ring operation. However, as a reproduction, it lacks the precision, tolerances, and long-term durability of the Summilux.
Leica Summilux v2: The Summilux is celebrated for its impeccable mechanical refinement and long-term durability, characteristics that remain difficult to replicate even in well-crafted reproductions like the Artizlab.
Conclusion:
The Artizlab Classic 35 lens retains many of the visual characteristics of the Leica Summilux, including its structured and busy bokeh, while refining certain aspects like highlight shapes and sharpness. However, it does not achieve a significant shift toward smoother bokeh or less busy rendering, instead staying true to the vintage aesthetic. The 1-meter minimum focus distance remains a drawback. For purists, the Summilux v2 continues to stand out for its unique quirks and craftsmanship, while the Artizlab offers a solid alternative with modern refinements for those who don’t mind its retained flaws.
p.3 #14 · Funleader to Release Lens Inspired by Leica 35/1.4 Summilux
"Structure busy bokeh" feels a bit vague and subjective.
From the side-by-side comparisons in the video review posted above, the rendering structure shows clear differences, even in the outlining symmetry. Personally, I don’t find the 'OG' Leica 35/1.4 Summilux's rendering busy, especially compared to other vintage lenses.
IMO, the Voigtlander 35/1.4 Nokton’s rendering structure is the closest match so far. The main difference is that the Voigt’s specular highlights are slightly more rounded off-axis. That said, like this new lens, the Voigtlander features tweaks to its optical design and updated coatings, resulting in higher contrast, improved resolution, and reduced glow and imperfections.
Here are some side-by-side comparisons of the Voigtlander 35/1.4 and the Leica Steel Rim (reissue), which uses the same optical design as the Leica 35/1.4 Summilux v2:
p.3 #17 · Funleader to Release Lens Inspired by Leica 35/1.4 Summilux
That should be no problem. I will be testing on a digital body but I will ask my friend with an rangefinder to check alignment. Unsure when it will arrive. I’m guessing 3 weeks or more.
p.3 #18 · Funleader to Release Lens Inspired by Leica 35/1.4 Summilux
I ordered one too shortly after they started accepting orders. It will be interesting to see how it compares to my 35mm f1.4 Nokton and MS Optics Apollon 36mm f1.3 vs newer optics like my Nokton 1.5. I'm guessing the closest comparison will be the Nokton 1.4
photonc wrote:
Just ordered Funleader. Wish me luck (-: Will share samples when it arrives.
p.3 #19 · Funleader to Release Lens Inspired by Leica 35/1.4 Summilux
I just placed an order for the lens. I admit that I am a sucker for this. When it arrives, I will compare it to my Voigtlander 40mm 1.4 and my steel rim reissue. I am more interested its performance at f2 compare to my Zeiss G 35mm f2.
p.3 #20 · Funleader to Release Lens Inspired by Leica 35/1.4 Summilux
I ordered one. I love my 35 Nokton Classic which spends all it's time on the M4-2 but wanted a 35 for my M4. It should be a good way to compare the two lenses.
