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Archive 2024 · Pre-capture image thread...

  
 
duncangr
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p.4 #1 · Pre-capture image thread...


chiron wrote:
The only precapture picture I have seen that has any relevance for my own photography is this one by @timgangloff@@
https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1877014/42#16691113

It is a photo of a quarterback after the game who happened to glance at the photographer for just a second and then looked away. Because of precapture, the photographer got the glance recorded, when without precapture he would not have.

This might bear on my ability to get fleeting expressions in portraits or candid shots that I would otherwise miss.

But I am still not sure that precapture would work for general photography. For one thing, you have to be holding
...Show more

handy when covering donald trump events!



Dec 02, 2024 at 09:12 PM
rscheffler
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p.4 #2 · Pre-capture image thread...


chiron wrote:
Also, precapture has been around on other camera systems for years. No one, including the marketing departments for these other cameras, have ever made much about it. It seems like a minor feature for most photographers.



With respect to Canon mirrorless, pre-capture has only existed since the R6II, I think, which was released pretty much exactly two years ago. Maybe Olympus/OM Systems had it already for a while? But TBH, m43 is a niche system and the cameras with that functionality (assuming only the high end models), are likely a niche of a niche. And there are not a lot of crossover users with both Canon and Olympus here (though a handful certainly are on this board).

Pre-capture with the R6II is IMO 'half-baked.' It seems to be OK if you're photographing something that will happen once and the action is done for at least the time it takes to write the files to the card. Once the buffer is full or you stop shooting before filling the buffer, the camera locks you out until it finishes writing to the card. This is a very poor implementation for sports because often right after you think the play has ended, something else happens that you want to capture, yet if using that implementation of pre-capture, you're locked out until it's done writing. The R6II's other poor pre-capture related implementation is the fact all the images from a sequence are stored inside a proprietary container file that only Canon's software can access, or you have to extract individual images from a pre-capture burst in-camera and save those as unique files to the memory card. This absolutely sucks for any working photographer's workflow because the vast majority of them will not be using Canon software for culling/editing. And won't want to.

I use the R6II to photograph sports and I never use pre-capture because of how it's implemented. When I had the chance to trial an R1 at a couple football games, I used pre-capture a fair amount in scenarios where I needed a sequence of a player launching off the line of scrimmage. As a decades-long BBAF user, the problem I have with pre-capture is I have to remember to keep the shutter release half-pressed, whereas normally I'd only press it right when needed to capture images.

Anyway, the pre-capture implementation in the R5II and R1 is the way it should be. One can gripe over not (yet) having the option to tailor the pre-capture duration via custom function, but at least it now works more intuitively than the R6II and saves images as individual files rather than wrapping them in proprietary containers.



Dec 02, 2024 at 11:26 PM
chiron
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p.4 #3 · Pre-capture image thread...


rscheffler wrote:
With respect to Canon mirrorless, pre-capture has only existed since the R6II, I think, which was released pretty much exactly two years ago. Maybe Olympus/OM Systems had it already for a while? But TBH, m43 is a niche system and the cameras with that functionality (assuming only the high end models), are likely a niche of a niche. And there are not a lot of crossover users with both Canon and Olympus here (though a handful certainly are on this board).

Pre-capture with the R6II is IMO 'half-baked.' It seems to be OK if you're photographing something that will happen
...Show more

Did you ever use it for anything other than sports?



Dec 02, 2024 at 11:49 PM
chiron
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p.4 #4 · Pre-capture image thread...


duncangr wrote:
handy when covering donald trump events!


yes, it would have been useful in Butler, PA.



Dec 02, 2024 at 11:51 PM
Caleb Williams
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p.4 #5 · Pre-capture image thread...


chiron wrote:
yes, it would have been useful in Butler, PA.


If your photojournalist instincts kicked in soon enough, absolutely. Doug Mills of the NY Times captured one of the bullets in flight, though it was with a Sony camera, so it could have been their implementation of pre-capture. I wonder what the resulting image would have been if Mills was using 1/64000th instead of 1/8000th.



Dec 03, 2024 at 10:16 PM
RoamingScott
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p.4 #6 · Pre-capture image thread...


Came to see what folks are using precapture to get, found out it's for bike riders getting hit in the nuts. Nice


Dec 03, 2024 at 10:28 PM
Ross Martin
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p.4 #7 · Pre-capture image thread...


If I had precapture back in my days as a newspaper staff photographer it would have been used frequently for sports as well as many people situations when waiting for a decisive moment and facial expression, but we certainly survived without it as our reaction times and ability to anticipate got honed through daily fulltime shooting. An example is when I was photographing Rich Little speaking to a large audience and after a heckler shouted at him he quickly and briefly flipped him the bird. Today if I had it I would try it out on my candid shoots of my little niece, as there are brief moments where her expression is just perfect but it does not last long, and my reaction time is not what it used to be. But for the bulk of what I shoot these days precapture is nowhere near necessary and not a feature I will seek out. Of course for the BIF shooters it is pretty sweet as evidenced by some of the images here.


Dec 04, 2024 at 03:52 PM
rscheffler
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p.4 #8 · Pre-capture image thread...


chiron wrote:
yes, it would have been useful in Butler, PA.

Caleb Williams wrote:
If your photojournalist instincts kicked in soon enough, absolutely. Doug Mills of the NY Times captured one of the bullets in flight, though it was with a Sony camera, so it could have been their implementation of pre-capture. I wonder what the resulting image would have been if Mills was using 1/64000th instead of 1/8000th.


A shorter streak.

I feel a lot of it was right place at the right time and luck (what's the saying: you have to be good to be lucky?). Even at 60 or 120fps with the a9III, you could still miss a bullet. And that the bullet was probably supersonic, by the time you heard the actual gunshot (assuming it was the first shot), your body processed the sound and recognized it as a gunshot, it's already too late. So sure, here is when pre-capture could be useful, if you had the foresight to use it.

chiron wrote:
Did you ever use it for anything other than sports?


I have only used the R1 loaner I had access to for sports and it was the only pre-capture capable camera where I made the effort to use pre-capture during regular client work. I don't use it in the R6II because of the hassle it introduces into my non-Canon software based workflow and the other reasons I explained earlier. But yeah, if the R6II had pre-capture like the R1, I would use it for the example I described: talking heads at conferences and similar.

Here's another example: I photograph the local university's convocation ceremonies. They 'hood' each graduate when they are on-stage. Each 'hooder' has a different technique. Some are slow and it's easy to time with a single or two-shot burst. Others are fast and unpredictable. And depending on the shooting angle, might not be visible before they start their hooding motion. I prefer a low angle from the edge of the stage at the stage floor looking up so I can get the hood flowing over the graduate, but from this angle I usually can't see the hooder. Back when I was using my 1DXII, I could usually nail the 'peak hooding' moment in a single shot because the instant I saw the hood and released the shutter was fast enough to catch it at the ideal moment. Now with mirrorless, the moment I see the hood coming over the head, it's already too late half the time, so I have to anticipate and shoot a burst to be sure I get something that I like. And sometimes I still miss it. With pre-capture, I could wait until the hood is pretty much over the head and take one shot and gain all the pre-capture shots. Some grads also react unpredictably after they're hooded, which I sometimes miss because I wasn't expecting it, so again, with pre-capture, I could take a shot after the moment and still get a usable image or two out of the sequence if I had the shutter half-pressed and pre-capture running. Yes, I'd potentially have a burst of 10-20 frames for each grad depending on how long I had the shutter release half-pressed (this is with Canon's implementation) and I'd have the camera set to 10fps, so it could possibly go as far back as 2 seconds. But it should eliminate pretty much every miss and make the process a bit more relaxing behind the camera.

Here's a random example of the photo opp I described at one of the convocation ceremonies. This moment happens in around half a second and from this angle can be difficult to anticipate. Just to be clear, this was NOT a pre-capture image and just serves as an example for a non-sports scenario:




The downsides I envision to using pre-capture here: having upwards of 20 useless images in a pre-capture sequence, which if you multiply by 300-500 grads, adds up. I currently usually do a 3-5 image 12fps burst, but sometimes it might be 10+ if the hooder's timing is delayed by unpredictable movement/behavior by the graduate. Another downside is that it could make me lazy in respect to anticipation and timing for when it really counts, because I'd be even more accustomed to the camera covering my butt.

But I'll take that tradeoff because of how pre-capture potentially offsets a downside of mirrorless; its inherent lag due to the image being processed off the sensor and to the EVF, rather than direct line-of-sight through an optical viewfinder.

I think there can be a lot of uses for pre-capture but the most obvious are fast action and difficult to predict peak action situations that often occur in sports and wildlife scenarios. Which is why we're seeing a lot of those kinds of examples.




Dec 04, 2024 at 08:16 PM
TimMunsey
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p.4 #9 · Pre-capture image thread...


Some more wildlife pre capture shots

http://www.wildphotolife.co.uk/st-aidans-2024-dec/images/_DSC2379_041224.jpg

http://www.wildphotolife.co.uk/st-aidans-2024-dec/images/_DSC2406_041224.jpg

http://www.wildphotolife.co.uk/st-aidans-2024-dec/images/_DSC2408_041224.jpg

http://www.wildphotolife.co.uk/st-aidans-2024-dec/images/_DSC2409_041224.jpg

http://www.wildphotolife.co.uk/st-aidans-2024-dec/images/_DSC2411_041224.jpg

http://www.wildphotolife.co.uk/st-aidans-2024-dec/images/_DSC2412_041224.jpg

Sony A9M3 with 600mm f/4 + 1.4TC 1/4000th at F/5.6

Tim




Dec 07, 2024 at 07:09 AM
AGeoJO
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p.4 #10 · Pre-capture image thread...


TimMunsey wrote:
Some more wildlife pre capture shots

Sony A9M3 with 600mm f/4 + 1.4TC 1/4000th at F/5.6

Tim



Another impressive set that exemplifies the pre-capture feature well, Tim!



Dec 07, 2024 at 09:18 AM
arbitrage
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p.4 #11 · Pre-capture image thread...


Bumping thread to hopefully get people to post more precapture shots. We now have the A1II out there doing it along with the A9III, Canons, Nikons.
If Sony gets their supply together and gets me my A1II I'll certainly add some of my own shots. Of course I plan to run the precapture on all the time so probably every shot I post on other threads will technically be a "pre-capture" shot.



Jan 13, 2025 at 12:05 PM
duncangr
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p.4 #12 · Pre-capture image thread...


Agree - very few A9iii action shots of mine wouldn't have used pre-capture.

Here is a repost of the green bee-eaters.

Best viewed here for proper scaling.

https://duncangroenewald.com/pages/collections/2024-12-SriLanka_1.html

https://duncangroenewald.com/img/photos/2024-12/2024-12-30/DGB_20241230_1_7430_DxD.jpg

https://duncangroenewald.com/img/photos/2024-12/2024-12-30/DGB_20241230_1_7431_DxD.jpg

https://duncangroenewald.com/img/photos/2024-12/2024-12-30/DGB_20241230_1_7432_DxD.jpg

https://duncangroenewald.com/img/photos/2024-12/2024-12-30/DGB_20241230_1_7433_DxD.jpg

;


Youtube capture sequence






Jan 15, 2025 at 02:01 AM
duncangr
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p.4 #13 · Pre-capture image thread...


And for those having trouble with launch sequence focussing - A9iii autofocus does work during pre-capture as does EYE AF. No need to disable EYE AF while using pre-capture as some seem to believe - see the end of the video for the eye af frames.

Bear in mind these frames would almost all have been captured during pre-capture (set to 0.5 seconds) and the 'panning' you see is not panning of the sense it is just the crop box moving in post (automated software cropping of the image in post to keep the eye in the centre) - there is little or no panning of the lens by me - much too quick for me to react and follow the bird.

I would be interested in seeing how the R1 does in this scenario.




Jan 15, 2025 at 02:17 AM
duncangr
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p.4 #14 · Pre-capture image thread...


And one time it would have been better to not have had pre-capture.

Blue-tailed Bee-eater - had just snatched the bee out the air as the bee buzzed around after making a few attempts. By the time I realised what was going on I had already released the half-pressed shutter button and cleared the pre-capture buffer - I was all primed for the bird to fly. This would have been another jackal or lanner falcon moment! Aaarghh.

Worst part is our guide insisted on doing a 4 hour round trip to see leopards, which we had seen the day before and by the time we returned the light had gone and the birds were done for the day.

https://duncangroenewald.com/img/photos/2025-01/2025-02-06/DGB_20250106_1_7773_M_DxD.jpg
https://duncangroenewald.com/img/photos/2025-01/2025-02-06/DGB_20250106_1_7911_DxD.jpg
https://duncangroenewald.com/img/photos/2025-01/2025-02-06/DGB_20250106_1_7911_1_DxD.jpg



Jan 15, 2025 at 02:31 AM
action99
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p.4 #15 · Pre-capture image thread...


For sports where the athlete, car, skier, etc.. come in from a blind spot is pretty handy the pre-capture, not a game changer but it makes life easier.

https://photos.smugmug.com/Sports/Bob-St-Moritz-2025/i-dXKcjfb/0/MSPkMfdbnDw4XZvtGXpMLk2GvdCjwCXMHFLDhBbk4/X5/RON30070-X5.jpg





Jan 15, 2025 at 03:43 AM
duncangr
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p.4 #16 · Pre-capture image thread...


Changeable Hawk-eagle

https://duncangroenewald.com/img/photos/2024-12/2024-12-30/DGB_20241230_1_6561_DxD.jpg

https://duncangroenewald.com/img/photos/2024-12/2024-12-30/DGB_20241230_1_6573_DxD.jpg



Jan 15, 2025 at 04:48 AM
duncangr
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p.4 #17 · Pre-capture image thread...


https://duncangroenewald.com/img/photos/2024-07/Desktop-Kgalagadi-2024/DGB_20240723_1_6640_DxD.jpg
https://duncangroenewald.com/img/photos/2024-07/Desktop-Kgalagadi-2024/DGB_20240723_1_6684_DxD.jpg



Jan 15, 2025 at 05:24 AM
duncangr
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p.4 #18 · Pre-capture image thread...


Another pre-capture shot - fluffed up detail always looks great. Just hit the button after it happened now - too easy.

https://duncangroenewald.com/img/photos/2025-01/2025-02-06/DGB_20250106_1_6784_1_DxD.jpg



Jan 16, 2025 at 12:37 AM
vbnut
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p.4 #19 · Pre-capture image thread...


duncangr wrote:
And for those having trouble with launch sequence focussing - A9iii autofocus does work during pre-capture as does EYE AF. No need to disable EYE AF while using pre-capture as some seem to believe - see the end of the video for the eye af frames.

Bear in mind these frames would almost all have been captured during pre-capture (set to 0.5 seconds) and the 'panning' you see is not panning of the sense it is just the crop box moving in post (automated software cropping of the image in post to keep the eye in the centre) - there
...Show more

I've never heard of "automated software cropping in post". What software does that?



Jan 16, 2025 at 12:41 AM
duncangr
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p.4 #20 · Pre-capture image thread...


vbnut wrote:
I've never heard of "automated software cropping in post". What software does that?


Custom software that will create and position a crop box around the defined points on a sequence of images, e.g. birds eye.

See the manual below
https://duncangroenewald.com/files/Software/RAW_User_Manual.pdf

https://duncangroenewald.com/pages/software/RAW-Editor/images/RAW001.png

https://duncangroenewald.com/pages/software/RAW-Editor/images/RAW003.png



Jan 16, 2025 at 05:06 PM
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