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Thypoch Simera 50mm f/1.4 ASPH. Review

  
 
Adamwilbert
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p.3 #1 · Thypoch Simera 50mm f/1.4 ASPH. Review


rji2goleez wrote:
Predawn foggy morning.

M11 + Simera 50/1.4 shot at f/1.4-2.8


Rendering looks quite nice on that last shot!



Nov 06, 2024 at 10:59 AM
Fred Miranda
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p.3 #2 · Thypoch Simera 50mm f/1.4 ASPH. Review


1bwana1 wrote:
I have plenty of clinical lenses. A sharp but more cinematic drawing lens is one thing I hope this lens brings to my camera bag. I love the 14 aperture blade bokeh as well.


The Simera is well-corrected with a modern rendering, so it may not serve as your character lens. I'm testing it for rendering today and can already say it closely matches the rendering of the Summilux, which many think is perhaps too perfect. The Simera has slightly lower contrast (bite) in the focused area, especially at the center, as shown in the infinity and MFD tests, but also a bit less contrast in the out-of-focus area. The structure, transition zone smoothness, and optical vignetting are almost identical. Because of this, distinguishing between these two lenses in real images would be challenging. Even with close analysis, I find it difficult to tell them apart. All of this is positive for the Simera in my opinion.



Nov 06, 2024 at 02:48 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.3 #3 · Thypoch Simera 50mm f/1.4 ASPH. Review


rji2goleez wrote:
Predawn foggy morning.

M11 + Simera 50/1.4 shot at f/1.4-2.8


Great samples, Bob! Thanks for sharing. I really love the atmosphere you’ve captured.
I encourage other FM members who have this lens to post their samples here as well. As with previous reviews, I'll link them to the front page.



Nov 06, 2024 at 02:52 PM
nehemiahphoto
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p.3 #4 · Thypoch Simera 50mm f/1.4 ASPH. Review


Fred Miranda wrote:
The Simera is well-corrected with a modern rendering, so it may not serve as your character lens. I'm testing it for rendering today and can already say it closely matches the rendering of the Summilux, which many think is perhaps too perfect. The Simera has slightly lower contrast (bite) in the focused area, especially at the center, as shown in the infinity and MFD tests, but also a bit less contrast in the out-of-focus area. The structure, transition zone smoothness, and optical vignetting are almost identical. Because of this, distinguishing between these two lenses in real images would be
...Show more

If it is that close in terms of overall image feel and contrast, I will probably pick up a copy. Thypoch seems to have done better with this than the 35/1.4 or 28/1.4.

Will you be testing it on a stock Sony camera?



Nov 06, 2024 at 02:59 PM
serhan_
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p.3 #5 · Thypoch Simera 50mm f/1.4 ASPH. Review


Back to sample shots contributed by FM members


A few images that were posted on the other thread:

Wide open on A7C kolari mod, cropped:



wide open



3 shot pano at f8




Nov 06, 2024 at 03:00 PM
rji2goleez
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p.3 #6 · Thypoch Simera 50mm f/1.4 ASPH. Review


Back to sample shots contributed by FM members


Random samples on the M11






















Nov 06, 2024 at 03:18 PM
1bwana1
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p.3 #7 · Thypoch Simera 50mm f/1.4 ASPH. Review


Fred Miranda wrote:
The Simera is well-corrected with a modern rendering, so it may not serve as your character lens. I'm testing it for rendering today and can already say it closely matches the rendering of the Summilux, which many think is perhaps too perfect. The Simera has slightly lower contrast (bite) in the focused area, especially at the center, as shown in the infinity and MFD tests, but also a bit less contrast in the out-of-focus area. The structure, transition zone smoothness, and optical vignetting are almost identical. Because of this, distinguishing between these two lenses in real images would be
...Show more

Thanks for the information. I current have the Leica Summicron in the 50mm focal length. I find it very clinical in nature. I was thinking of swapping that for the Summilux for the wider aperture in order to get more creamy bokeh for some types of shots, including portraits and night shots. F/1.4 is really about as shallow a depth of field at 50mm that I can confidently focus with the Range Finder. I also much prefer the round bokeh that the 14 blades of the Simera produce rather that the angled shapes of the Summilux. At the price of the Simera It may make sense for me to keep both.

I also wanted a silver lens to go with my custom reverse Panda color scheme on my M11. All my other lenses are black.

I have one on order at B&H. That gives me 30 days to try it out and return it if it doesn't work out.



Nov 06, 2024 at 04:23 PM
rji2goleez
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p.3 #8 · Thypoch Simera 50mm f/1.4 ASPH. Review


Back to sample shots contributed by FM members


Adding a few more to this review. All on M11






















Nov 06, 2024 at 04:50 PM
Steve Spencer
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p.3 #9 · Thypoch Simera 50mm f/1.4 ASPH. Review


nehemiahphoto wrote:
If it is that close in terms of overall image feel and contrast, I will probably pick up a copy. Thypoch seems to have done better with this than the 35/1.4 or 28/1.4.

Will you be testing it on a stock Sony camera?


If you look at the lens diagram for the 35 f/1.4, it looks almost identical to the Leica M 35 lux Asph FLE. So no surprise it has a different rendering than this lens that has a lens diagram that looks almost identical to the Leica M 50 lux Asph. Just as this lens is hard to distinguish from the Leica M 50 lux Asph, I am guessing it will be hard to tell the Thypoch 35 f/1.4 from the Leica M 35 lux Asph FLE.



Nov 06, 2024 at 05:36 PM
Steve Spencer
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p.3 #10 · Thypoch Simera 50mm f/1.4 ASPH. Review


1bwana1 wrote:
Thanks for the information. I current have the Leica Summicron in the 50mm focal length. I find it very clinical in nature. I was thinking of swapping that for the Summilux for the wider aperture in order to get more creamy bokeh for some types of shots, including portraits and night shots. F/1.4 is really about as shallow a depth of field at 50mm that I can confidently focus with the Range Finder. I also much prefer the round bokeh that the 14 blades of the Simera produce rather that the angled shapes of the Summilux. At the price of
...Show more

The Leica M 50 lux Asph and this Thypoch 50 f/1.4 have very similar lens diagrams and Fred is finding very similar performance. So much so it is hard to tell them apart, but that 14 blade aperture vs. the 9 blade aperture of the Leica M lux which can at some stopped down apertures have a bit of ninja star shape is a benefit of the Thypoch. As Fred's review makes clear the Leica has a little more contrast in the center whereas the Thypoch has a little more contrast in the midzone (so is more even between center and midzone) and the Thypoch has a shorter MFD at .45M. We still have to see how flare plays out (which isn't really a strength of the Leica unless you Leica the flare it produces) and coma and a few other things, but IMO this Thypoch is a very interesting alternative to the Leica. Keep in mind the Leica is physically smaller as well but has a bigger and nicer focus ring, IMO. I think it is likely to be ergonomically preferred by me at least. I also like Leica's built-in hoods, but that is a view that isn't shared by everyone for sure.

We also know that the Leica 50 lux Asph is one of the 50s that is most affected by the thicker sensor glass on Sony cameras, so I don't hold out a lot of hope for the Thypoch on a stock Sony, but I am sure in time we will find out about that too.

Oh and that is probably at least as true for the Thypoch 35 f/1.4 if it performs at all like the 35 lux Asph FLE which has a very similar design.



Nov 06, 2024 at 05:48 PM
 


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p.3 #11 · Thypoch Simera 50mm f/1.4 ASPH. Review


Steve Spencer wrote:
The Leica M 50 lux Asph and this Thypoch 50 f/1.4 have very similar lens diagrams and Fred is finding very similar performance. So much so it is hard to tell them apart, but that 14 blade aperture vs. the 9 blade aperture of the Leica M lux which can at some stopped down apertures have a bit of ninja star shape is a benefit of the Thypoch. As Fred's review makes clear the Leica has a little more contrast in the center whereas the Thypoch has a little more contrast in the midzone (so is more even between
...Show more

Indeed, I would expect the Simera to perform very similarly to the Leica on the stock Sony sensor, meaning no bueno.

The Simera definitely has the advantage with its 14-blade aperture mechanism, compared to my Leica 50mm f/1.4 Lux, which has 9 blades. The Simera is capable of producing rounded specular highlights when stopped down, but I still need to check how their sunstar renderings differ (14 points vs 18 points).



Nov 06, 2024 at 06:12 PM
spendychucky
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p.3 #12 · Thypoch Simera 50mm f/1.4 ASPH. Review


Sizewise without the square hood I think the Simera is similar to the summilux Close focus, which is perhaps a better comparison.


Nov 06, 2024 at 08:40 PM
nehemiahphoto
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p.3 #13 · Thypoch Simera 50mm f/1.4 ASPH. Review


Steve Spencer wrote:
If you look at the lens diagram for the 35 f/1.4, it looks almost identical to the Leica M 35 lux Asph FLE. So no surprise it has a different rendering than this lens that has a lens diagram that looks almost identical to the Leica M 50 lux Asph. Just as this lens is hard to distinguish from the Leica M 50 lux Asph, I am guessing it will be hard to tell the Thypoch 35 f/1.4 from the Leica M 35 lux Asph FLE.


Yes, I know--that's why I purchased the 35/1.4! But it's pretty easy to feel and see the difference in processing between the 35 Lux FLE and 35 Simera. When I shot the Simera, the colors/contrast were pretty weak, which really meant it wasn't the same lens at all. Between that and the increased size, I didn't really find it very impressive or interesting. If you take the biting micro-contrast and beautiful color out of the 35 Lux, I think it's a very mediocre lens. That's what really gives a lot of separation of visual planes and richness. Same with ZM 35/1.4--take out that signature Zeiss color and micro-contrast, I don't think it's special.

Which, brings me to why I am so curious about this Simera 50/1.4--I know these lenses are Leica clones. But this one seems to have better contrast and color, while also not being larger really than the 50 Lux.

Also, for you and @fredmiranda:

https://phillipreeve.net/blog/review-thypoch-simera-35mm-1-4/

https://phillipreeve.net/blog/review-leica-35mm-1-4-summilux-m-asph-fle-mk-ii/

Despite the similarity in the optical formulae on the 35mm's, the 2 perform differently on a stock Sony. I actually prefer the performance of the 35 Lux FLE on a stock Sony to my modded a7rII. The midzone is better at larger apertures, but the corners need more time to sharpen. So, while I suspect the 50 Simera may perform like the 50 Lux on a Stock sensor as well, I'd like to make sure and not just assume.




Nov 06, 2024 at 09:12 PM
rscheffler
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p.3 #14 · Thypoch Simera 50mm f/1.4 ASPH. Review


nehemiahphoto wrote:
If it is that close in terms of overall image feel and contrast, I will probably pick up a copy. Thypoch seems to have done better with this than the 35/1.4 or 28/1.4.


What's wrong with their 28? From all the images I've seen, it appears to be one of the nicest rendering fast 28s. Admittedly none of those were SOOC unprocessed files, so perhaps color/contrast would not be the equal of the 28 Lux... Ergonomically, yes, it could be better from the perspective of use on an M camera.

Fred: I'm sure you'll do it but please include some scenes that are LoCA stress tests. This is one area where I feel the 50 Lux ASPH has outperformed other fast "non-APO" options.



Nov 07, 2024 at 12:55 AM
wolfloid
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p.3 #15 · Thypoch Simera 50mm f/1.4 ASPH. Review


I have only read extremely positive reports on the Simera 28/1.4.


Nov 07, 2024 at 04:35 AM
Steve Spencer
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p.3 #16 · Thypoch Simera 50mm f/1.4 ASPH. Review


nehemiahphoto wrote:
Yes, I know--that's why I purchased the 35/1.4! But it's pretty easy to feel and see the difference in processing between the 35 Lux FLE and 35 Simera. When I shot the Simera, the colors/contrast were pretty weak, which really meant it wasn't the same lens at all. Between that and the increased size, I didn't really find it very impressive or interesting. If you take the biting micro-contrast and beautiful color out of the 35 Lux, I think it's a very mediocre lens. That's what really gives a lot of separation of visual planes and richness. Same with ZM
...Show more

Hi Nehemiah,

Thanks for the links. I am surprised that the Simera 35 f/1.4 and the Leica 35 lux Asph FLE perform so differently on a stock Sony. I had seen a different review in which Bastian had reviewed the Simera 28 and 35 initially and saw how bad the Simera 35 was on the stock Sony, but I hadn't seen his full review of the 35 and just as in the initial review the Simera really doesn't do well on the Sony stock sensor.

What I hadn't realized is that the Leica 35 lux Asph FLE works pretty well on a Sony stock sensor. As you know, I bought your Leica 35 lux Asph FLE but I never tried it on a Sony stock sensor. I wish I did as I might have kept it but I just assumed it underperformed. Instead I sold it when I sold my Leica M10. I do agree that the micro contrast was one of the primary features of the Leica 35 lux Asph FLE, but I also really liked the size and ergonomics. What I didn't like that much was the bokeh. Interestingly, from Bastian review it looks like the Simera 35 f/1.4 might have a bit less structured bokeh than the Leica 35 lux Asph FLE.

In fact, when considering this current review of the Simera 50 and that review of the Simera 35, it seems to me Thypoch has tweaked these lenses in an interesting way compared to the Leica M lenses with similar optical designs. It seems these Simera lenses have a bit less contrast in the center, but less of a midzone dip and generally a flatter field with just weaker corners until stopped down a little. There also seems to be an emphasis on smooth bokeh.

So, yes they are clearly based on Leica lens designs, but it appears they didn't just clone the design but also tweaked it for a bit different performance and I actually like the way they have tweaked the performance. From the reviews (including this one so far) I think I like the 50 better than the 35, (I also like the look of the 28 better than the 35 as others have mentioned) but I still am generally impressed with what Thypoch has done with the optical properties of these lenses. I am not at all sure about the ergonomics, however.



Nov 07, 2024 at 06:03 AM
nehemiahphoto
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p.3 #17 · Thypoch Simera 50mm f/1.4 ASPH. Review


rscheffler wrote:
What's wrong with their 28? From all the images I've seen, it appears to be one of the nicest rendering fast 28s. Admittedly none of those were SOOC unprocessed files, so perhaps color/contrast would not be the equal of the 28 Lux... Ergonomically, yes, it could be better from the perspective of use on an M camera.

Fred: I'm sure you'll do it but please include some scenes that are LoCA stress tests. This is one area where I feel the 50 Lux ASPH has outperformed other fast "non-APO" options.


I think the size, ergo and flare resistance are not great. Same with the contrast wide open. But to your point, the draw is pretty uniform and smooth, though for me at this point, that is not the most exciting. I opted for the CV 28/1.5 which excels in the areas of the Thypoch’s weakness. If I wanted a smooth draw, I’d favor the Thypoch and I don’t think it’s a bad lens.



Nov 07, 2024 at 09:51 AM
rji2goleez
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p.3 #18 · Thypoch Simera 50mm f/1.4 ASPH. Review


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A couple of images from this morning here in Minnesota

M11 + Thypoch Simera 50/1.4












Nov 07, 2024 at 10:05 AM
Fred Miranda
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p.3 #19 · Thypoch Simera 50mm f/1.4 ASPH. Review



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Sunstar rendering

The Simera 50mm f/1.4 ASPH. has an aperture mechanism with 14 blades, which is not typically optimal for producing well-defined sunstars. However, the lens's tight tolerance control and design mechanism result in 14 symmetric rays, both in length and distance from each other. Unlike lenses with straight blades, the Simera's blades are rounded, so don't expect to get any definition at wide apertures. Starting at f/4 or f/5.6, however, it is capable of producing great sunstars, and by f/8, it achieves optimal settings.

There is no right or wrong when it comes to sunstar rendering. Some prefer the effect of clear definition in the sunstar rays, while others prefer a more natural appearance. If you prefer sunstars with less definition, shooting at wide apertures is advisable with this lens.

Having a high number of rounded aperture blades may not be ideal for those trying to achieve defined sunstars, especially at wider apertures, but the advantage is having almost round specular highlights when the lens is stopped down.

Overall, the sunstar rays are defined starting at f/4, become more distinct at f/5.6, and reach optimal definition at f/8.

Below is a sequence showing the sunstar shape of the Simera 50mm f/1.4 ASPH. lens at various aperture settings from f/1.4 to f/16 in 1-stop increments. As mentioned, this lens features 14 aperture blades, resulting in 14-point sunstars.




f/1.4

  LEICA M10-R    Simera 50mm f/1.4 ASPH. lens    50mm    f/2.4    1/1500s    100 ISO    -1.3 EV  






f/2

  LEICA M10-R    Simera 50mm f/1.4 ASPH. lens    50mm    f/2.8    1/1000s    100 ISO    -1.3 EV  






f/2.8

  LEICA M10-R    Simera 50mm f/1.4 ASPH. lens    50mm    f/4.0    1/500s    100 ISO    -1.3 EV  






f/4

  LEICA M10-R    Simera 50mm f/1.4 ASPH. lens    50mm    f/4.8    1/250s    100 ISO    -1.3 EV  






f/5.6

  LEICA M10-R    Simera 50mm f/1.4 ASPH. lens    50mm    f/6.8    1/125s    100 ISO    -1.3 EV  






f/8

  LEICA M10-R    Simera 50mm f/1.4 ASPH. lens    50mm    f/9.5    1/60s    100 ISO    -1.3 EV  






f/11

  LEICA M10-R    Simera 50mm f/1.4 ASPH. lens    50mm    f/13.0    1/30s    100 ISO    -1.3 EV  






f/16




Nov 07, 2024 at 12:03 PM
nehemiahphoto
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p.3 #20 · Thypoch Simera 50mm f/1.4 ASPH. Review


Steve Spencer wrote:
Hi Nehemiah,

Thanks for the links. I am surprised that the Simera 35 f/1.4 and the Leica 35 lux Asph FLE perform so differently on a stock Sony. I had seen a different review in which Bastian had reviewed the Simera 28 and 35 initially and saw how bad the Simera 35 was on the stock Sony, but I hadn't seen his full review of the 35 and just as in the initial review the Simera really doesn't do well on the Sony stock sensor.

What I hadn't realized is that the Leica 35 lux Asph FLE works pretty well
...Show more

Yeah, when I first started shooting it, I actually noticed I liked the performance better on the stock Sony, which really surprised me. I was shooting it like that for a while, and when Bastian’s FLE II review came out, it confirmed my own experience and shooting practice.

As far as the bokeh, technically, the FLE can be a bit busy for sure. But as you probably know and recall about me Steve, I’ve lean towards the Pentax 31, Contax 35/1.4 and the 35 Lux pre-aspherical, which is to say, I generally like lenses that have more personality in the OOF at 35mm. The only real exception, in 35mm land, is the RX1 Sonnar, which is so unique and small and versatile, such wonderful colors and contrast and MFD and coma correction, it’s its own thing. And even still, I wish it had a little more personality.

I also prefer Simera’s tweaking for a better midzone at the expense of corners on this 50mm. I should not say they’re exact clones, but quite close. Of the 3 lenses I have paid attention to, for my taste, the 50mm seems to be the best in terms of contrast, size and ergonomically improvements.

When I saw the better mid-zone versus corner performance, it piqued my interest on a performance difference on a stock Sony.



Nov 07, 2024 at 12:04 PM
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