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Archive 2024 · Canon R5 Mk II - battery issue in cold weather

  
 
rickatfrillerdotcom
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p.1 #1 · Canon R5 Mk II - battery issue in cold weather


My wife and I repeatedly experienced a frustrating error message (with accompanying camera lock-up) on very cold/windy days in Churchill, Manitoba, early this month.

Our cameras were sitting on tripods in the middle of a mild arctic storm...lot's of sideways blowing snow with an accompanying wind. Temp was well below zero.

Specifically, when the camera was very cold and it went to sleep, upon trying to awake, the camera gave an error message, telling us that the battery was dead. But the battery was not dead. I'm back home now and the error will not repeat as we are now in warm(er) weather.

We could often turn the camera off, remove and reinsert the battery and the camera would often (but not always) decide that the battery was once again good.

The problem repeatedly occurred in both of our new R5 Mk II’s.

When one of the Mk II’s experienced the error, the supposedly dead battery would often work correctly in our other R5 Mk II and would always work in our R5 Mk I’s that we were also simultaneously using while in Churchill.

This situation only occurs when the R5 Mk II is being used in Very Cold weather!

And, this situation occurs both for the old (LP-E6NH) batteries as well as the new generation (LP-E6P) of batteries that Canon recommends for use in the R5 Mk II.

We are using the latest/current firmware (v 1.0.1).

Thanks very much for the responses so far. I'm continuing to update this post to clarify per each person's questions/responses and will continue to do so as needed.

I was shooting mostly 1080p video, just basic video, and since I was not pausing my video, I was not having a problem. I shot hours and hours of a mother and two 2nd year cub Polar Bears enjoying occasional snoozes and snacks n the rocks in Polar Bear Alley, just outside of Churchill.

My wife was shooting pics from her Mk II on a tripod (and she does not shoot continuously, so her camera would often go to sleep). When her camera would wake, she would get this erroneous "battery empty" error message. I switched my wife's camera to using the older (LP-E6NH) batteries, hoping that the problem was limited to the use of the newer (LP-E6P) batteries. For a while, it looked like the older (LP-E6NH) batteries were more reliable, as she didn't have as many erroneous "battery empty" error messages. I think she was probably shooting more consistently at that point in time.

But then, when I started to take pics instead of video on my Mk II, I occasionally let my camera go to sleep, and then I received the same erroneous "battery empty" error message when my Mk II attempted to "wake up".

Bottom line: This bad behaviour happened many times each day, over multiple days of shooting and we finally determined that the problem occurred with both the old and the new batteries. I had hoped to blame the new batteries, but could not.

That's when we started analyzing exactly what was occurring and found that the problem was only popping up it's ugly little black and red screen when the camera was attempting to "wake up" after being asleep.

In short, the Polar Bears that we were shooting would wake up with far more grace than either of our R5 Mk II cameras after they took their version of a nap in the cold.

Does anyone have a clue as to a fix for this issue?

Rick



Edited on Oct 31, 2024 at 12:03 PM · View previous versions



Oct 31, 2024 at 10:14 AM
artsupreme
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p.1 #2 · Canon R5 Mk II - battery issue in cold weather


Are you running the latest firmware?


Oct 31, 2024 at 10:17 AM
Cduff406
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p.1 #3 · Canon R5 Mk II - battery issue in cold weather


You know, I had a similar thing happen this week. I was out shooting some landscapes, it wasn't real cold, low 40'sF I would guess. My battery was getting low so I swapped it out, and both batteries I had brought showed they were completely dead when I inserted them into my R5II. I thought it was was really strange, they hadn't been sitting very long since they were charged. When I got home I put them on the charger and they showed full, and the camera showed full when I tried them again. I chalked it up to user error, but I will keep an eye and see if it happens again. That could be a real issue if they have a cold weather problem. It won't be warm around here again until April!


Oct 31, 2024 at 10:23 AM
rickatfrillerdotcom
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p.1 #4 · Canon R5 Mk II - battery issue in cold weather


Thanks for the info on your battery issue...hoping to see someone from Canon weigh in if enough R5II users have this problem.


Oct 31, 2024 at 10:39 AM
ksl219
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p.1 #5 · Canon R5 Mk II - battery issue in cold weather


rickatfrillerdotcom wrote:
..lot's of sideways blowing snow with an accompanying wind chill factor well below zero.

Rick



Do remember when analysing possible causes (low temperatures) that wind chill does not apply to inanimate objects - it is due to evaporation from the skin surface.



Oct 31, 2024 at 10:47 AM
Scott Stoness
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p.1 #6 · Canon R5 Mk II - battery issue in cold weather


re "The problem repeatedly occurred in both of our new R5 Mk II’s."

Grrr - October is not cold in Churchill. And it happened in both. Grr to the emphasis on video and heat.

I was worried about this with the emphasis on video not overheating being solved by venting. But there was no way to test it before I bought it.

My r5 never balked at cold weather. Whether in Churchill/October at -10 or Alberta at -40 for hours.

This could be the final straw for me, if R5-vii cannot perform in cold weather. Lessor dynamic range and cannot perform in cold weather equals get rid of it for me.

To answer your question,

It occurred in both cameras, so it is not likely a one of event.

I don't know but it's possible that a firmware update would solve it in 6 months [it might take them this long --- when the cold season is over grr or earlier], if lots of people complain about this issue. But it could also be unfixable (inherent problem related to increased heat dissipation with R5ii related to video cooling designs). You could strap a chemical warmer with elastic on it to see if this worked but my experience with Sony A7R2 when this happened was that it was too frustrating and I just stopped using it in the cold because cold weather is tough enough without babying my camera.



Oct 31, 2024 at 11:25 AM
Scott Stoness
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p.1 #7 · Canon R5 Mk II - battery issue in cold weather


In thinking about this more. I recall that
the old batteries don't work
even the newer batteries cause loss of precapture
That the new update plans to take care of some of these issues
The old vs newer vs latest (LP-E6P) all have the same voltage so its a amperage issue.

So my speculation is that Canon has designed this camera R5II to require more instantaneous amperage.

Batteries typically drop amperage (and voltage) when they get cold.

Canon is already working on a update for the issue to enable better performance with LP-E6 newer batteries but not the older ones, which suggest that it is very sensitive to voltage or current.

The good news is that that Canon is already working on this issue (making more features work with older batteries) but the bad news is that the R5II may be underdesigned for cold weather.



Oct 31, 2024 at 12:11 PM
ksl219
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p.1 #8 · Canon R5 Mk II - battery issue in cold weather


Scott Stoness wrote:
The old vs newer vs latest (LP-E6P) all have the same voltage so its a amperage issue.


Not true.

LP-E6NH is 7.2V

LP -E6P is 8.4V.

8.4V seems to be the maximum charging voltage of the current Canon battery chargers.



Oct 31, 2024 at 12:20 PM
Scott Stoness
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p.1 #9 · Canon R5 Mk II - battery issue in cold weather


ksl219 wrote:
Not true.

LP-E6NH is 7.2V

LP -E6P is 8.4V.

8.4V seems to be the maximum charging voltage of the current Canon battery chargers.


Hmmm - Canon Asia says same mWH and voltage but higher amperage.

https://community.usa.canon.com/t5/Video-Accessories/Totally-Awesome-Canon-What-Have-You-Done-LP-E6P-vs-LP-E6NH/m-p/497404 4min/52

You might be confusing charging voltage with discharge voltage or maybe I am just wrong. But I believe they are the same voltage, same mah, but that the LP-EP has a higher sustained amperage - according to Canon. eg the new battery does not dip in voltage or amperage like the LPNH when pushed.



Oct 31, 2024 at 12:30 PM
ksl219
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p.1 #10 · Canon R5 Mk II - battery issue in cold weather


Well, I'm confused now. I was going by the 8.4V which leaps to the eye on the back of the LP-E6P, but more careful examination reveals that there is also a figure of 7.2V.

A Google translate of the info on the back gives:-

2024 PEW 0619A
Model/Model:LP-E6P
Rated capacity/rated electric capacity: 2130mAh
Manufacturer: Canon Corporation 3-30-2 Shimomaruko, Ota-ku, Tokyo, Japan

TC
Li-ion battery pack/BATTERY PACK Li-ion 20
Rated energy: 16Wh Made in China/MADE IN CHINA
A/S Inquiry: Canon Korea Co., Ltd. 1533-3355 (nationwide) Electric Power Company: 8.4V
제조자명: Panasonic Energy (Wuxi) Co., Ltd. Recycle the secondary battery assembly after use.
Made in China 전자 Nominal voltage/repair voltage: 7.2V
Manufacturer: Panasonic New Energy (Wuxi) Co., Ltd.
CAUTION: RISK OF FIRE/BURNS DO NOT OPEN, CRUSH
HEAT ABOVE 60°C (140°F) OR INCINERATE. FOLLOW INSTRUCTIONS.
ONLY CHARGE USING THE EXCLUSIVE-USE CHARGER.
PRECAUTIONS: FIRE/BURN HAZARD. DO NOT OPEN, CRUSH, HEAT MORE THAN 60°C(140°F) OR INCINERATE FOLLOW INSTRUCTIONS ONLY CHARGE USING THE EXCLUSIVE USE CHARGER Rechargeable Li-ion
Canon Inc.
▲It is prohibited to disassemble, hit, squeeze or throw into fire. UL warns that if severe bulging occurs, do not continue to use it.
Please do not place it in a high temperature environment. Do not use the battery after it has been immersed in water! Never short-circuit, disassemble, put into fire, or put into water.
CERTIFIED
SAFETY US
E529394

The un-translated characters on the line after the 8.4V apparently mean "Manufacturer's name" and the characters between "Made in China" and "Nominal voltage" translate as "former" - so make what you will of all that!



Oct 31, 2024 at 02:38 PM
Scott Stoness
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p.1 #11 · Canon R5 Mk II - battery issue in cold weather


ksl219 wrote:
Well, I'm confused now. I was going by the 8.4V which leaps to the eye on the back of the LP-E6P, but more careful examination reveals that there is also a figure of 7.2V.

A Google translate of the info on the back gives:-

2024 PEW 0619A
Model/Model:LP-E6P
Rated capacity/rated electric capacity: 2130mAh
Manufacturer: Canon Corporation 3-30-2 Shimomaruko, Ota-ku, Tokyo, Japan

TC
Li-ion battery pack/BATTERY PACK Li-ion 20
Rated energy: 16Wh Made in China/MADE IN CHINA
A/S Inquiry: Canon Korea Co., Ltd. 1533-3355 (nationwide) Electric Power Company: 8.4V
제조자명: Panasonic Energy (Wuxi) Co., Ltd. Recycle the secondary battery assembly after use.
Made in China 전자 Nominal voltage/repair voltage: 7.2V
Manufacturer: Panasonic New
...Show more

I checked my charger. The charger provides 8.4V. Thus the battery is rated to receive 8.4volts (charging) and to provide 7.2volts (using). The key difference is that the new battery is able to deliver 6amp continuously (in warm weather ? )

The R5 can perform at 20fps in the cold. It looks like the R5II will require hand warmers unless Canon fixes this in a firmware update. But I doubt if the fix it it will deliver precapture or 30fps or 8k in the cold. Anyone who shoots in the cold might have to keep their R5 for 4k/60 in the cold or try chemical hand warmers elastic banded to the body.

[P.S. How were the bears. On occasion I have seen 20 or more in a day but several years ago I only saw a half dozen]



Oct 31, 2024 at 04:53 PM
rickatfrillerdotcom
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p.1 #12 · Canon R5 Mk II - battery issue in cold weather


Regarding the Polar Bears:

We saw 9 Polar Bears on this trip to Churchill, which is less that I expected, but I'm told that we were early in the season. The bears that we did see where very photogenic and appeared to be pretty habituated to tourists.

The folks that were taking the expensive helicopter rides were seeing a daily average of 16 Polar Bears per day. We decided to rent a van and get our pics from ground level and we were very happy with the results.

However, the highlight of the trip was that, while driving West out of Polar Bear Alley, we got to within 50 feet of a Wolverine that was watching us drive along the sandy road. We hopped out of our van and took pics of the Wolverine for almost 2 minutes before it decided that we were not really very interesting, after which it disappeared behind a mound of dirt...and that was that. This was the first time that I've seen a wild Wolverine in 57 years...I saw one near Crater Lake (in Central Oregon) when I was 7 years old...yes, that makes me 64 years old, hahaha. You can take a look at the recent Wolverine at the following URL:

www.flickr.com/photos/138917698@N05/54090897340/in/dateposted/

Thanks to you all for your responses to our frustration with the R5 Mk II in the cold weather (yes, I heard you when you said that it was not that cold, hahaha).


Edited on Oct 31, 2024 at 11:30 PM · View previous versions



Oct 31, 2024 at 05:32 PM
patotts
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p.1 #13 · Canon R5 Mk II - battery issue in cold weather


The same thing happened to me on my R6 Mk II last December when I took it to Sweden.


Oct 31, 2024 at 06:18 PM
EB-1
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p.1 #14 · Canon R5 Mk II - battery issue in cold weather


Scott Stoness wrote:
The old vs newer vs latest (LP-E6P) all have the same voltage so its a amperage issue.

ksl219 wrote:
Not true.

LP-E6NH is 7.2V

LP -E6P is 8.4V.

8.4V seems to be the maximum charging voltage of the current Canon battery chargers.

I did quite a bit of battery testing in August right after the R5 II was released.

There is no difference in the charging voltage requirements since the first LP-E6. The LP-E6x are comprised of two cells with the typical 4.2V/cell maximum charge voltage. The LP-E6P and LP-E6NH are both like this as are the older batteries.

The 7.2V (rated voltage) is customarily a median or geomean value for the battery pack voltage during the discharge cycle. It is used mostly to determine the effective watt-hours. During use the battery will drop from 8.4V (4.2V/cell) down to the cutoff voltage of the camera. Most devices try to keep the voltage above 3V/cell to reduce cycle damage.

In addition to charger and camera safety controlls, the battery management system (BMS) in an LP-E6x will limit maximum charge and minimum discharge voltages and maximum charge/discharge currents to keep the battery pack safe in the event of charger or device malfunction.

The only significant difference I found between the LP-E6NH and LP-E6P was that the NH cuts out at 4A compared to 8A for the P, i.e., a different BMS. (I used an increasing current ramp from zero with 0.05 or 0.10A increments and 5 second hold time per interval.) Comparing the voltage profiles, the P appears to have slightly less voltage drop above ~2.5A, but the difference is small and may be due to the NH having being over 500 days old (and having been used serval times in the R5) vs. the P being ~100 days old and essentially new.

EBH



Oct 31, 2024 at 08:51 PM
Scott Stoness
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p.1 #15 · Canon R5 Mk II - battery issue in cold weather


EB-1 wrote:
I did quite a bit of battery testing in August right after the R5 II was released.

There is no difference in the charging voltage requirements since the first LP-E6. The LP-E6x are comprised of two cells with the typical 4.2V/cell maximum charge voltage. The LP-E6P and LP-E6NH are both like this as are the older batteries.

The 7.2V (rated voltage) is customarily a median or geomean value for the battery pack voltage during the discharge cycle. It is used mostly to determine the effective watt-hours. During use the battery will drop from 8.4V (4.2V/cell) down to the cutoff voltage of the
...Show more

Good explanation but this still leaves the question of why does the R5 maintain its ability to take pictures with LPE-6NH when the R5ii cannot, in the face of cold weather.

My theory is that the R5II requires higher amperage/voltage than the R5. It is more sensitive to voltage/amperage. And thus it currently is not good in the cold weather, where battery performance dips.

I am hopeful that Canon adjusts this (via firmware update) so that the R5ii can carry on performance at cold weather by reducing fps and precapture... and it just becomes less usable for video in cold weather than R5. But it appears that the R5 is just going to be better in the cold for stills and video.

So I will have to decide whether I sell my R5ii or keep both of them (R5 for winter temperature and R5ii for fair weather). But I told my wife about the anticipated delta - not the keep both case.

All this to give us precapture and fps to 30, non leaning backgrounds in fast motion, and better video, when they could have just made a R5R at 80mpx, no aa, higher dynamic range, based on R5, for landscape and slow animal usage. Higher fps and stacked sensor are good for birders but not for bear shooters or landscape shooters. Sigh.

[btw - I left my R5ii at home and took my R5 to Italy last month because it is a better landscape camera (higher dynamic range at iso 100), the R5 files require less stretching (adobe lr does not do as good a job at high iso, and my HDR program still does not work on R5ii [photomatix]) , and I did not need 30fps/variable fps, precapture on a vacation. Now I will be inclined to put the R5ii away for the winter ?. That's an expensive paperweight.]



Nov 01, 2024 at 08:14 AM
RustyRus
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p.1 #16 · Canon R5 Mk II - battery issue in cold weather


Have you contacted Canon? Something is wrong here- I am sure it’s a firmware related bug somehow.


Nov 01, 2024 at 08:30 AM
jedibrain
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p.1 #17 · Canon R5 Mk II - battery issue in cold weather


R5: camera useless because it's too hot.

R5II: camera useless because it's too cold.

R5III: Goldilocks?



I'm sure this is frustrating. I have some telescope gear that behaves the same. Need to heat wrap it as well.

Brian



Nov 01, 2024 at 09:12 AM
Scott Stoness
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p.1 #18 · Canon R5 Mk II - battery issue in cold weather


I flagged this post to Youtube reviewer Ordinary Filmmaker and am hoping he can put pressure on Canon to solve it. Canon is rumoured by Ordinary Filmmaker to be working on a firmware adjustment that would enable LPE-6NH to work better (enable 4kfine with LPE-6NH like the R5). Hopefully this firmware fix will also solve cold weather performance.

&t=593s



Nov 01, 2024 at 09:12 AM
EB-1
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p.1 #19 · Canon R5 Mk II - battery issue in cold weather


Scott Stoness wrote:
Good explanation but this still leaves the question of why does the R5 maintain its ability to take pictures with LPE-6NH when the R5ii cannot, in the face of cold weather.

My theory is that the R5II requires higher amperage/voltage than the R5. It is more sensitive to voltage/amperage. And thus it currently is not good in the cold weather, where battery performance dips.

I am hopeful that Canon adjusts this (via firmware update) so that the R5ii can carry on performance at cold weather by reducing fps and precapture... and it just becomes less usable for video in cold
...Show more

Of course the battery voltage will decrease as the current increases and the temperature decreases.
It's up to Canon what cutoff setting to use and it seems to be a poor choice. However, there may also be a temperature sensor in the camera that is part of the determination to shut down. In several ways it seems that the R5 II simply requires more power for full functionality than the battery pack can reasonably sustain.
As previously suggested Canon should be able to tweak the firmware to keep the camera on in the cold, even if it means some other limitation.

EBH



Nov 01, 2024 at 09:27 AM
rickatfrillerdotcom
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p.1 #20 · Canon R5 Mk II - battery issue in cold weather


Hi Scott.

Your most recent post pretty much sums up how I feel about our recent purchases of the R5 Mk II's that we took to Churchill recently.

In warm conditions, we strongly prefer the Mk II's, but, at least when not shooting video, the Mk I's have proven to perform consistently better for Polar Bear, Fox, Arctic Hare, Partridge, and even Wolverine pics, at least when the temperature dips below zero.

For shooting video in the cold, I found that the "better/improved" image stabilization of the Mk II's (over the Mk I's), especially when shooting in steady gusts of wind, gave me enough motivation (useable video) to work with my Mk II and its flaky battery recognition/usage.

I learned this the hard way. When I first started having the Mk II not recognize a fully charged battery in freezing temps, I switched to using my old Mk I for my video. It just worked, as I'd come to expect!

However, upon viewing the video playback of the Mk I in this situation, the video was so shaky that it is unusable to me, enabling me to quickly realize that the video that I had been getting from the Mk II was actually amazing in it's auto stabilization capabilities. Arghhh.

A temporary work around for the erroneous "battery error" that I believe we discovered is as follows:

If we are able to get a "cold" R5 Mk II to recognize a fully charged battery (which often requires quite a lot of retries and lots of patience), the Mk II will perform as expected, AS LONG AS IT DOES NOT GO TO SLEEP. So, at least in our recent experience, if you configure the Mk II to stay awake, or you depress either the shutter or the back-button focus button on a regular basis (keeping the Mk II awake), then the erroneous battery error does not seem to appear (at least not as often).

This is obviously not an ideal situation, especially when you are spending hours/days watching Polar Bears lounging around and sleeping while they wait for the ice on Hudson Bay to freeze solidly enough to hold their weight (i.e., when they are consistently sleeping, taking redundant pics/video makes no sense). But, we found this to be a work-around for Canon's obvious firmware defects in the Mk II.

I like your reference to your wife. I have a similar situation. My wife and I shoot identical Canon equipment. We used to shoot different brands, but, being the tech support guy for our team, I found it useful to standardize on one brand with one learning curve. So, starting with the 7D Mk II, moving to the R5 Mk I, and now the R5 Mk II, we shoot on identical hardware, side by side, and end up with a lot of duplicate pics, but also a lot of unique pics (and video), as my wife and I have somewhat different artistic directions with our nature photography. All of this is background for...each time that I request that we upgrade our equipment, I have to approach the banker (my wife) and make a business case for why we need to upgrade AND why we need to keep our current set of equipment, at least until we have proven that the new equipment will really be an asset to our nature photography. I am so very glad that I took our "old" R5 Mk I's (as backup cameras) on our recent trip to Churchill, and that I had not yet sold them. Our R5 Mk I's saved us from hours of fruitless shooting time AND pretty much saved our trip.

That's gonna become a standard part of my "business case" when we next choose to upgrade our equipment, hahaha.

Rick



Nov 01, 2024 at 09:36 AM
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