p.3 #1 · Does Sony have the worst manual focus assist
Steve Spencer wrote:
I think the "smart," adapter is telling the camera that it is a lens which it actually isn't. If it has a similar exit pupil that may not matter, but if the exit pupil is quite different I suppose there is potential to mess up the focus confirmation.
Indeed, that makes sense... but that would also mean exit pupil information is not crucial to the accuracy of focus this way (or people simply didn't notice) ...
p.3 #2 · Does Sony have the worst manual focus assist
Great point, Guy! I agree—But Sony could at least link face or eye recognition with focus magnification. Like you, I want to stay in control when deciding if something’s in focus, but it would be super helpful if the camera could detect a face or an eye to assist. I remember a few years ago, a box would sometimes pop up around a face when trying to manually focus, so it seems like Sony thought about adding this feature but never fully followed through. I really hope they bring it in at some point—it would make shooting so much easier!
GMPhotography wrote:
I beg to differ here I have shot manual focus for over 50 years and when the A7R came out and saw focus peaking I sold every Nikon I had . A light up system tells you nothing but what the camera feels in focus. Focusing peaking is actually seeing your subject come into focus. On my new A7CR for instance I put a manual focus lens on hit the focusing ring I immediately go into focus magnify with peaking on usually in low setting for outside light . I focus on the exact area I want hit shutter and go back to normal viewing. It's fast, precise and deadly accurate. I want ME to decide what's in focus not some light up led that is suspect if I have the area I want in focus. Bottom line trust your eyes...Show more →
p.3 #3 · Does Sony have the worst manual focus assist
foto16 wrote:
Does Sony have the worst manual focus assist
Jonas B wrote:
Exaggerated or not but i think that is correct. I would have written "the least developed system for MF" or something like that.
Knut. wrote:
I clearly disagree with this.[...] Of course all these reasons are personal, but to me these arguments make the Sony System the best and not the worst system for manual focus.
So Knut, as Sony does not offer options for us when it comes to MF it is the best system? Having options is a bad thing?
Oct 22, 2024 at 03:57 AM
Steve Spencer Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
p.3 #4 · Does Sony have the worst manual focus assist
j4nu wrote:
Indeed, that makes sense... but that would also mean exit pupil information is not crucial to the accuracy of focus this way (or people simply didn't notice) ...
Or it could mean that the exit pupil information of the lens the adapter tells the camera is being used even though it is not the right lens is pretty close to accurate in most cases so people don't notice the small inaccuracies introduced by the adapter.
p.3 #5 · Does Sony have the worst manual focus assist
Steve Spencer wrote:
Or it could mean that the exit pupil information of the lens the adapter tells the camera is being used even though it is not the right lens is pretty close to accurate in most cases so people don't notice the small inaccuracies introduced by the adapter.
Yes, so it seems exit pupil distance doesn't matter in practical terms .
Oct 22, 2024 at 04:53 AM
Steve Spencer Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
p.3 #6 · Does Sony have the worst manual focus assist
j4nu wrote:
Yes, so it seems exit pupil distance doesn't matter in practical terms .
I guess what I am saying is that exit pupil information could matter (even in practical terms) with some lenses and in some cases but the adapter does a good enough job in most cases so that people don't notice the problems. I would never say that because people don't notice problems, the problems don't matter. It might just take careful testing for the problems to be revealed.
p.3 #8 · Does Sony have the worst manual focus assist
Speed. When I did MF with a rangefinder (or with an SLR prism, going back further), it was possible to start with the lens in an habitual position (in my case, at infinity) turn it once in one direction until the split image coincided, and press the button. With magnification, one can be highly accurate of course, but I find myself going back and forth a bit to be sure I have hit optimum focus. A green box focus confirmation could reduce this and make the process faster, as the split image did, although I don't know for sure as I have not tried it.
Oct 22, 2024 at 05:24 AM
Steve Spencer Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
p.3 #9 · Does Sony have the worst manual focus assist
j4nu wrote:
Yes, that's why I said in practical terms ...
And that is what I disagreed with. Just because people don't notice doesn't mean it isn't practical. Many people didn't notice at first the very practical issues with exit pupil distance and Leica M lenses used on cameras with thicker sensor cover glass until careful testing revealed it and yet these issues are very practical to a number of people at least. All I am claiming is that things that matter practically can be missed until careful testing reveals them and then there practically can be fully seen.
p.3 #10 · Does Sony have the worst manual focus assist
Steve Spencer wrote:
And that is what I disagreed with. Just because people don't notice doesn't mean it isn't practical. Many people didn't notice at first the very practical issues with exit pupil distance and Leica M lenses used on cameras with thicker sensor cover glass until careful testing revealed it and yet these issues are very practical to a number of people at least. All I am claiming is that things that matter practically can be missed until careful testing reveals them and then there practically can be fully seen.
Yes, that's also what I said in my original comment, that either pupil distance doesn't matter that much or people just didn't notice its negative impact. Peace .
Oct 22, 2024 at 05:35 AM
Steve Spencer Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
p.3 #11 · Does Sony have the worst manual focus assist
j4nu wrote:
Yes, that's also what I said in my original comment, that either pupil distance doesn't matter that much or people just didn't notice its negative impact. Peace .
And I am just fleshing out a third possibility that exit pupil distance matters (even practically) and although people haven't noticed its negative impact that they will be able to notice its impact and how it practically matters once the full nature of that impact is revealed through careful testing. Yes, let's have peace on this issue.
p.3 #12 · Does Sony have the worst manual focus assist
Steve Spencer wrote:
And I am just fleshing out a third possibility that exit pupil distance matters (even practically) and although people haven't noticed its negative impact that they will be able to notice its impact and how it practically matters once the full nature of that impact is revealed through careful testing. Yes, let's have peace on this issue.
I meant that there are only two options (either it matters, but people haven't noticed due to lack of proper testing or it doesn't) , but yes - sure.
Oct 22, 2024 at 06:04 AM
Steve Spencer Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
p.3 #13 · Does Sony have the worst manual focus assist
j4nu wrote:
I meant that there are only two options (either it matters, but people haven't noticed due to lack of proper testing or it doesn't) , but yes - sure.
And I meant that there are at least three possibilities and it is useful to distinguish between therm. It doesn't matter, people haven't noticed because the differences are so small that they don't practically matter, or the differences aren't small and they practically matter but people haven't noticed them because no one has tested for them carefully. The differences between these last two possibilities is certainly worth distinguishing in my opinion, and that is why I bothered to do it. So, I guess I am saying why people aren't noticing if exit pupil is important matters.
p.3 #14 · Does Sony have the worst manual focus assist
My A7CR is more challenging to manually focus than when I used the A7Rv. My number one wish for the A7CR is for an A7Rv EVF in the smaller form factor. All of the other suggestions given in this thread are useful, but having a great.EVF is the most important focusing tool besides user skill, and ability.
p.3 #15 · Does Sony have the worst manual focus assist
Steve Spencer wrote:
And I meant that there are at least three possibilities and it is useful to distinguish between therm. It doesn't matter, people haven't noticed because the differences are so small that they don't practically matter, or the differences aren't small and they practically matter but people haven't noticed them because no one has tested for them carefully. The differences between these last two possibilities is certainly worth distinguishing in my opinion, and that is why I bothered to do it. So, I guess I am saying why people aren't noticing if exit pupil is important matters.
Good point, I haven't really considered why people would or would not notice as part of the original question...
p.3 #16 · Does Sony have the worst manual focus assist
bwcolor wrote:
My A7CR is more challenging to manually focus than when I used the A7Rv. My number one wish for the A7CR is for an A7Rv EVF in the smaller form factor. All of the other suggestions given in this thread are useful, but having a great.EVF is the most important focusing tool besides user skill, and ability.
I would agree with this as the A7CR is challenging with the EVF and main reason I don't use it much and rely on the LCD for most of my shooting. For me I actually like Sony's manual focus setup. It honestly intrigued me back in the A7R days to even dump my Nikon system for it. To me it was a good call
p.3 #17 · Does Sony have the worst manual focus assist
Jonas B wrote:
So Knut, as Sony does not offer options for us when it comes to MF it is the best system? Having options is a bad thing?
I just said that for my way of doing manual focus a green box (an auto focus feature) is not helpful. I tried the Nikon version and I did not get the workflow and ease of use I had hoped for. I realized that a high view finder resolution is much more important than the colored confirmation box. Manual focussing (for me) is not just replacing an AF motor with my hands (and relying on the focus detection of the camera), but "seeing" what I get in the view finder and basing my focussing decision on what I see. To me that is what manual focussing is all about (not just turning the helicoid with my hands).
I do not doubt that other people might have valid different priorities. To my style of manual focus the Sony implementation is clearly and by a margin best. Others might have different priorities and will get to a different opinion based on their view. That is their right as I have my opinion. I just find the title of this thread very poor and clearly say: for my use case Nikon and Canon have not yet reached the great use experience I personally have with Sony (reading through this thread you might notice that I'm not alone with this view). Some people might browse through this thread and believe "Oh, Sony manual focus is poor". But this is just NOT true. The answer is clearly more complicated and defining what you really want is of importance. For many the Sony manual focus experience is best, for others it is Canon/Nikon. It is important to identify the features you personally need.
PS;
At times I wonder if all who have offered their opinions in this thread have actually tried the mentioned cameras side by side (and not only read the spec sheets). In any case, I clearly accept that others might have a different approach to manual focus and that is their right, just I have mine.
PPS:
And yes, overloading a camera with options is a bad thing. Think Leica, make it simple (but this a personal view as well that cannot be generalized).
To me:
- Green boxes for an AF lens, to tell you what the auto modus was thinking (that is valid).
How would you otherwise know what the camera is doing?
- No green boxes for manual focus where you can SEE for yourself what is in focus (many people do not want a suggestion what "AUTO" is thinking if they want to manual focus). It is a question of approach and philosophy if you want to go the complete MF path versus the AF path.
p.3 #18 · Does Sony have the worst manual focus assist
rob_ww wrote:
Speed. When I did MF with a rangefinder (or with an SLR prism, going back further), it was possible to start with the lens in an habitual position (in my case, at infinity) turn it once in one direction until the split image coincided, and press the button. With magnification, one can be highly accurate of course, but I find myself going back and forth a bit to be sure I have hit optimum focus. A green box focus confirmation could reduce this and make the process faster, as the split image did, although I don't know for sure as I have not tried it....Show more →
The issue is that the green boxes do not light up with precision. They are not there at peak sharpness but have some leeway (even in 2024 camera models of Canon and Nikon). So to me the green boxes are not there yet. It might be "good enough" (everyone's mileage may vary here and the quality of an image is clearly not defined by sharpness alone). But for perfect sharpness (for example on an eye) an AF lens in AFC modus is the way to go. Even slight movements of the subject or the photographer can clearly push sharpness off. MF lenses to me are made for a different use case. Personally I have both: AF and MF lenses and I use them according to their strengths.
(Focus trap has been suggested in this thread as well and this is an interesting concept for use of the "green boxes" if these were more precise...)
When the response time of the green boxes is really instantaneous and perfectly precise I'm fine if Sony added them (but why not wait until technology is there? I believe it is still a problem of sensor and processor speed and the speed of the necessary algorythms)
p.3 #19 · Does Sony have the worst manual focus assist
Knut. wrote:
I just said that [...]
PPS:
And yes, overloading a camera with options is a bad thing. Think Leica, make it simple (but this a personal view as well that cannot be generalized).
To me:
- Green boxes for an AF lens, to tell you what the auto modus was thinking (that is valid).
How would you otherwise know what the camera is doing?
- No green boxes for manual focus where you can SEE for yourself what is in focus (many people do not want a suggestion what "AUTO" is thinking if they want to manual focus). It is a question of approach and philosophy if you want to go the complete MF path versus the AF path....Show more →
OK. So giving the users wanting something else the _option_ to get it is bad to put it simply. I get it now.
p.3 #20 · Does Sony have the worst manual focus assist
Personal opinion, features that matter to some people, and can be disabled for others who don't care, isn't a bad thing.
I'd like
Auto EFCS
Trap focus
Probably a few other things that I can't think of at the moment. But for people who aren't interested in those features, they can just leave them off. I can see the usefulness for some people to have the green box. I might use it, might not.
If another camera company has implemented these features, we know it's possible. We know someone has figured out to provide them without the world coming to an end. Where do we draw the line? Are there features that Sony has already implemented that they shouldn't have, based on some criteria of overloading a camera with features? Where is that line drawn. Because if the line is drawn where if Sony does implement it, it's okay, if it doesn't....well then it would be too far if they did.....that doesn't pass the smell test for me.
For example, I don't like using auto-magnify. Doesn't mean I don't think the camera should have the feature. I know there are many people who love that feature.
...
.