p.2 #1 · Official Announcement: Leica Q3 43 Digital Camera Released!
ustjwenew wrote:
On dpreview I see samples of uncorrected raw prictures from this camera that show an enormous distortion. Is it so difficult to make a lens in this size without distortion? To me it looks like a cheap lens from the previous century.
And yet the release reviews all seem to unanimously praise the optics. Plus Leica don't just add the APO label unless, they're sure.
Since it's now 2024 and not 1974, all camera manufacturers use some form of software as part of the lens design process. Like different types of glass, it's just another tool in the toolbox of lens design.
p.2 #2 · Official Announcement: Leica Q3 43 Digital Camera Released!
RustyRus wrote:
That’s the beauty of a fixed sensor-
You build the lens to match the sensor size- so you only have to correct out to a certain point. I would say this give lens designers way more latitude to get the best possible output.
If I think about this logically- Imagine designing an ASP-C lens with a full frame sensor- Extremely easy to get the best part of the image in the center.
With a fixed lens and you control the lens placement with no mount, you can build the best properties around that, make the crop in software for the 60M image circle etc.
I am sure there are people way smarter than me that can talk about it but why not use the technology we have and use everything at your fingertips. Someone correct me if this is wrong- ...Show more →
If you're suggesting the cameras have a larger sensor that allows them (or any of the other Q's) to correct the distortion of the lens and still come out with a 60MP image, you're wrong. Leica makes the corrections in camera and up-reses the DNG to match the original resolution.
p.2 #3 · Official Announcement: Leica Q3 43 Digital Camera Released!
freaklikeme wrote:
If you're suggesting the cameras have a larger sensor that allows them (or any of the other Q's) to correct the distortion of the lens and still come out with a 60MP image, you're wrong. Leica makes the corrections in camera and up-reses the DNG to match the original resolution.
Thats not what I am saying at all- I am saying since its a fixed lens system, you have more latitude in how you can design the lens and have more space to do what is needed. So a single lens, with a leaf shutter, in a fixed position without needing to worry about the mount.
p.2 #4 · Official Announcement: Leica Q3 43 Digital Camera Released!
My assumption is that it is always better that an image is not distorted when it is created by the lens than that it has to be processed afterwards to repair the distortion. Certainly when the distortion is severe..But perhaps the correction techniques are now that good that it doesn’t matter anymore.
flash wrote:
And yet the release reviews all seem to unanimously praise the optics. Plus Leica don't just add the APO label unless, they're sure.
Since it's now 2024 and not 1974, all camera manufacturers use some form of software as part of the lens design process. Like different types of glass, it's just another tool in the toolbox of lens design.
p.2 #5 · Official Announcement: Leica Q3 43 Digital Camera Released!
ustjwenew wrote:
My assumption is that it is always better that an image is not distorted when it is created by the lens than that it has to be processed afterwards to repair the distortion. Certainly when the distortion is severe..But perhaps the correction techniques are now that good that it doesn’t matter anymore.
I think the issue is that if you correct distortion all the way optically then other optical parameters tend to suffer (like aberration). So since distortion is the easiest to correct digitally, that is what they pick to compromise on.
But we do have the (super expensive) 50mm APO ASPH which I assume is pretty well corrected for everything.
p.2 #6 · Official Announcement: Leica Q3 43 Digital Camera Released!
I'm a bit disappointed, but precedence in the original Q 28 makes it not totally surprising that the computational corrections are baked in.
The surprising part is that for a 43mm lens ... it has that much of a need for distortion correction. I get it for wides / UWA glass. But, a 43 normal, hmm. I'd actually be curious now to see how much distortion this has vs my 40/2 Summicron-C.
Will be watching to see how well it handles the computational corrections at different distances (macro, mfd, mid, infinity). I wasn't always keen on how the Q28 handles distortion correction, particularly if you aren't shooting plumb, square and level to a scene. Manual corrections are then needed and the amount of optic correction rears its a head a bit more than advertised.
Time will tell how well things go for the "less than ideal" captures via computational corrections vs. manual corrections. I guess I just had my expectations of the APO designator to mean optically superb in all regard, not just raising the bar in color alignment.
The proof is in the pudding, so likely it'll be a non-issue for a lot of folks. Architectural shooters, however ... hmmm, we'll see.
p.2 #7 · Official Announcement: Leica Q3 43 Digital Camera Released!
While Q3 43 cameras were at testers a new FW upgrade came along which improved focus speed/accuracy and also impacted other areas of the lens performance. I wonder if DP review had the new FW in camera at the time of their analysis. I asked, but no reply yet.
Again $50 for Sean Reid covers just about all questions brought up here.
p.2 #8 · Official Announcement: Leica Q3 43 Digital Camera Released!
RustyRus wrote:
Thats not what I am saying at all- I am saying since its a fixed lens system, you have more latitude in how you can design the lens and have more space to do what is needed. So a single lens, with a leaf shutter, in a fixed position without needing to worry about the mount.
Sorry. Your "APSC lens with a FF sensor" analogy is confusing.
Yes, in theory, a fixed lens camera should have a lens optimized for the sensor better than any interchangable lens + camera, but there are plenty of fixed lens cameras that prove it doesn't have to be that way.
p.2 #9 · Official Announcement: Leica Q3 43 Digital Camera Released!
I understand your reservations, Kent. Being interested to check the distortion levels of the SL 35mm and 50mm APOs, I see that Leica do not report this important aberration in their data sheets. And you do get the feeling that the designers of fixed lens camera lenses can't resist the temptation to use heavy profiling.
Not that it matters to the final image quality; it's at a very high level and in keeping with Leica's well established modern rendering style of fade/bokeh/color. Users might want to soften skin textures, but that is hardly a Leica only issue. I only mention it due to the heavily promoted crop factoring - 20mp at 75mm according to Jono.
There are four aspherical elements (Jono's page), perhaps some with surfacing both sides (as is common). The SL 50/2 APO uses three asph elements. These heavily aspherical lenses can convey human skin as though using a microscope from a metre away. You tend to notice surface textures ahead of the face, the look is not for everyone and it's far more noticeable at 43mm and beyond, than at the more environmental portrait 28mm focal length.
Chris Niccols reports 'the appearance of longitudinal chromatic aberration (LoCA) at f/2. There are some distinct orange and blue chromatic aberrations visible in areas just out of focus and this is hard to get rid of in editing. Stopping down the lens helps out but LoCA will rear its ugly head at wider apertures.'
There are quibbles about jpeg over-sharpening (DPR), and they say less detail than the Sony 85/1.4. No one is shooting landscapes with it, as yet, with their pre-release copies. It will be very popular indeed.
p.2 #10 · Official Announcement: Leica Q3 43 Digital Camera Released!
I personally feel a Q3 with a 40/2 or 40/1.7 that errs on the more "classic" end of the spectrum would be a lot more interesting than an ultra-modern 43mm. But then again, I am not the target market for this camera. They will sell a boatload of them, and not be able to repair lemons fast enough lol.
p.2 #11 · Official Announcement: Leica Q3 43 Digital Camera Released!
freaklikeme wrote:
If you're suggesting the cameras have a larger sensor that allows them (or any of the other Q's) to correct the distortion of the lens and still come out with a 60MP image, you're wrong. Leica makes the corrections in camera and up-reses the DNG to match the original resolution.
I've always wondered if in addition to the upsizing if they're also applying baked-in sharpening using a distortion map such that corrected areas at the edges get a little more sharpening than the center.
p.2 #12 · Official Announcement: Leica Q3 43 Digital Camera Released!
When I read of the perspective control feature, I realized they view files from this camera series as their optical playground. Anything goes, and you will never know what that is. As with many others, to be fair. Optics are just the starting point.
p.2 #13 · Official Announcement: Leica Q3 43 Digital Camera Released!
It's basically a Q3 with a 43 lens slapped on....took the same que from Ricoh grx... Not innovative at all imo. At least for the premium id expect to get similar features like the m11d is content credentials etc...
Also for standard portrait lens you'd expect a Lux would lend itself more for portraiture right What was Leica thinking 🤔
p.2 #14 · Official Announcement: Leica Q3 43 Digital Camera Released!
A Q3 with a 43mm lens (distortion or not, let's say net 43mm) - very interesting!
When looking at the DPR review I noticed the comment about "less detailed than the Sony 85mm", just as philip_pj mentioned earlier. So, I went to their section called Lens test and compared myself. Indeed, you see more details in the Sony image. But... I'm not sure what I'm looking at:
Above: a screenshot from DPR
Why do the Q3 images look that soft at pixel level? How come the Sony shows that noise level? Or rather, how come the Q3 is that much less noisy?
► Is there a noise reduction applied in the Leica RAW images? What do you knowing the Leicas of today better than I do think?
As it's the first time I post in this part of FM since the Sony section was created I´ll declare that I don't mind software corrections with regards to distortion. It's the way to go of course. I have also looked at the Q iterations, I have been tempted but a 28mm is too wide for me. This Q3 may be it! My first Leica since the M5...!
But, I don't like it when the raw format images are manipulated.
p.2 #15 · Official Announcement: Leica Q3 43 Digital Camera Released!
I have been tempted by the Q series many times and I agree this new focal length is tempting once again. That is, until Chris Niccols reminds readers that the body is the same, with the same drawbacks. A friend of mine purchased a Q3 recently and the poor AF has been driving him nuts -- around 10% of pictures are just plain out of focus, it is that bad.
It's hard to see how the Q3 43 can be better in any respect than an A7CR with any similar FL lens. Size, weight, AF, IQ, IBIS ... price ... where does the Q3 43 win out?
p.2 #16 · Official Announcement: Leica Q3 43 Digital Camera Released!
rob_ww wrote:
I have been tempted by the Q series many times and I agree this new focal length is tempting once again. That is, until Chris Niccols reminds readers that the body is the same, with the same drawbacks. A friend of mine purchased a Q3 recently and the poor AF has been driving him nuts -- around 10% of pictures are just plain out of focus, it is that bad.
It's hard to see how the Q3 43 can be better in any respect than an A7CR with any similar FL lens. Size, weight, AF, IQ, IBIS ... price ... where does the Q3 43 win out?...Show more →
A7CR is a consumer camera, Q3 is a luxury camera. But I have to admit, Q3 is more premium, has far better EVF, and I prefer the tilt screen over foldable (it's a personal preference). For DPR's chart I suspect Q3 has AA filter, it's softer, also A7CR's AF is better.
p.2 #17 · Official Announcement: Leica Q3 43 Digital Camera Released!
rob_ww wrote:
[...]
It's hard to see how the Q3 43 can be better in any respect than an A7CR with any similar FL lens. Size, weight, AF, IQ, IBIS ... price ... where does the Q3 43 win out?
Shutter, viewfinder, perhaps weather sealing, a 43mm APO lens and handling (personal thing of course). There are pros and cons. I like APO lenses and the in the 40mm-range there is nothing matching the QR lens. Maybe the Batis 40 but then the camera isn't exactly small any longer. The Sony 40/2.5 is nice but not exactly inspiring.
Thanks though, I need a reality check from time to time. The Q3 is still tempting and even more so than the earlier iterations (to me). It's probably better sticking with Sony for mixed kinds of serious work and buy a Fuji X100vi for having fun.
p.2 #18 · Official Announcement: Leica Q3 43 Digital Camera Released!
Lukacs wrote:
A7CR is a consumer camera, Q3 is a luxury camera. But I have to admit, Q3 is more premium, has far better EVF, and I prefer the tilt screen over foldable (it's a personal preference). For DPR's chart I suspect Q3 has AA filter, it's softer, also A7CR's AF is better.
p.2 #19 · Official Announcement: Leica Q3 43 Digital Camera Released!
rob_ww wrote:
I have been tempted by the Q series many times and I agree this new focal length is tempting once again. That is, until Chris Niccols reminds readers that the body is the same, with the same drawbacks. A friend of mine purchased a Q3 recently and the poor AF has been driving him nuts -- around 10% of pictures are just plain out of focus, it is that bad.
It's hard to see how the Q3 43 can be better in any respect than an A7CR with any similar FL lens. Size, weight, AF, IQ, IBIS ... price ... where does the Q3 43 win out?...Show more →
Weather sealing. I feel much more confident taking this out in rainy weather than with any other camera I’ve owned. I also find that AF-S is pretty fast and accurate. The two downsides I found are the new lens hood and the minimum focusing distance in non-macro mode.
p.2 #20 · Official Announcement: Leica Q3 43 Digital Camera Released!
Yeah, I forgot about the better VF. That's a biggie! And there is never quite the right lens choice in that focal range, in terms of size, aperture, etc. Points conceded! I'll tell my wife I have to buy one!
What was Leica thinking 🤔
