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Demand for high-end cameras is soaring - The Economist

sirimiri
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Demand for high-end cameras is soaring - The Economist

"The ubiquity of smartphones has helped"

Leica, Fuji and Nikon are specifically named...

https://www.economist.com/business/2024/09/12/demand-for-high-end-cameras-is-soaring (generally a subscriber-only publication)

"Growing interest in these high-end devices helps explain why the overall number of cameras sold this year is on track to increase for the first time since 2017."

Sep 18, 2024 at 01:36 PM

retrofocus
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Demand for high-end cameras is soaring - The Economist

sirimiri wrote:
"The ubiquity of smartphones has helped"

Leica, Fuji and Nikon are specifically named...

https://www.economist.com/business/2024/09/12/demand-for-high-end-cameras-is-soaring (generally a subscriber-only publication)

"Growing interest in these high-end devices helps explain why the overall number of cameras sold this year is on track to increase for the first time since 2017."

Add film cameras which have shown also increased demand and pricing including new revamped models by different manufacturers.

Sep 18, 2024 at 01:41 PM

1bwana1
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Demand for high-end cameras is soaring - The Economist

All great things for the photography World.

Sep 18, 2024 at 01:48 PM

rscheffler
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Demand for high-end cameras is soaring - The Economist

For those without a The Economist account, if you have a library card for your local library, check their website to see if they have any affiliation with platforms such as Pressreader. Mine does and I just login with my library card and password like I would my local library's website (though it's also necessary to create a free Pressreader account). The linked article is available to read this way in the Sept. 14th edition of The Economist.

Anyway, IMO it's not much of an article. At least nothing that hasn't been discussed here numerous times. IMO camera brands have to go 'upscale' whether in brand appeal (what the brief article seems to mostly focus on) or in outright price to offset lower volume due to the loss of the low end of the market to smartphones long ago. IOW, expect equipment prices for enthusiast/pro gear to continue to rise. Leica's annual price increase is pretty much a guarantee of that anyway.

Edited on Sep 18, 2024 at 02:26 PM · View previous versions

Sep 18, 2024 at 02:08 PM

RoamingScott
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Demand for high-end cameras is soaring - The Economist

rscheffler wrote:
For those without a The Economist account, if you have a library card for your local library, check their website to see if they have any affiliation with platforms such as Pressreader. Mine does and I just login with my library card and password like I would my local library's website (though it's also necessary to create a free Pressreader account). The linked article is available to read this way in the Sept. 14th edition of The Economist.

That is way too much work vs using archive.is and throwing the URL in there to get the archive version in seconds.

https://archive.is/Fptmd

That article is about as basic as it gets, sad if that's paid content. We've known for years that the luxury end of the market is thriving while the basic consumer level is shrinking. The haves and have nots are pulling away from each other and the market has reflected that in both price and backorder status of luxury items for quite a while.

Sep 18, 2024 at 02:14 PM

rscheffler
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Demand for high-end cameras is soaring - The Economist

Yes, it's too much work to read one short, poorly written/executed article, but it opens up access to hundreds/thousands of publications for future browsing. Don't be so shortsighted!

Frankly, when I read it, I thought it was possibly assembled by "AI".

Sep 18, 2024 at 02:27 PM

Desmolicious
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Demand for high-end cameras is soaring - The Economist

Leica’s digital cameras may be doing well but since the last price gouge I mean increase on their film cameras, those have now been in stock everywhere. Before they were relatively hard to get.
I guess $6000 for a basic light tight box that may scratch your film is a bridge too far.

Sep 18, 2024 at 03:09 PM

d.s.
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Demand for high-end cameras is soaring - The Economist

Is a $1,600 camera high end?

Sep 18, 2024 at 06:33 PM

fritzx6
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Demand for high-end cameras is soaring - The Economist

d.s. wrote:
Is a $1,600 camera high end?

To the average consumer, I think $1600 for a device that offers ostensibly redundant functionality for a piece of technology that cost half as much, and that they already carry in their pocket everyday, is probably considered a lot, yes.

We enthusiast/hobbyist photographers have a distorted perspective of pricing I think.

The Fuji X100V and VI that you refer to are MSRP 1600 but often sold for more than that second hand due to supply constraints.

The hot market for these fashionable/desirable Fuji P&S's are Zoomers who see instagram and tik tok influencers touting their "filmic, organic, authentic" qualities.

Crippling student loan debt, wage stagnation, record housing costs, grocery costs and other CoL factors have left Gen Z in a financial pickle. I remember when I was their age, my photography equipment purchases (all of which were second-hand) felt extravagant when they went beyond five hundred dollars and the possibility of spending over a grand would've been relatively unthinkable.

So yeah, I think $1,600 for a device that the majority of people don't "need" puts it in the luxury good bucket for most. For comparison, that's about the same cost as a Louis Vuitton handbag.

Sep 18, 2024 at 07:41 PM

philip_pj
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Demand for high-end cameras is soaring - The Economist

The normie population has left for greater convenience, good enough (for them) quality, cost containment and gadget involvement. This exodus has left we enthusiasts inside a much reduced cohort, amid much better focused products. These are salad days.

It will take some time before the manufacturers fully imbibe the meaning of this inflection point in photographic history. It means more demand for a broad range of excellent creative tools, less emphasis on mere expediency and do the job-ness, a shift to high end optics, more artistic lenses, better portrait lenses.

Hopefully much greater separation from the suburban white bread and corporate world of professional photography (which is all about expediency and popular acceptance, the 'good enough' crowd), instead recognizing the rise and the creative interests of the well-informed enthusiast class. A guild of them, in essence.

That's many, maybe most, of us. Our best interests are served by a leaner, well curated, better oriented market. Think niche, not mass market. We and they have to aim higher, and become more laser-focused. Less lens churn, greater intimacy with better lenses.

The wherewithal is not an issue. Look at what bird photographers spend on their equipment, let alone other male activities, it all costs. Their numbers are proliferating by what we see posted here.

Sep 19, 2024 at 02:47 AM

Desmolicious
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Demand for high-end cameras is soaring - The Economist

philip_pj wrote:
…

It will take some time before the manufacturers fully imbibe the meaning of this inflection point in photographic history. It means more demand for a broad range of excellent creative tools, less emphasis on mere expediency and do the job-ness, a shift to high end optics, more artistic lenses, better portrait lenses.

..

Unfortunately/fortunately - depending on your POV - none of that will matter in the very near future for digital photography.
Software and AI will give any look you need - no need for high end optics/artistic lenses etc

Want swirly bokeh? Click. Want glowing highlights? Click. Want shallow DOF with no field curvature or vignetting? Click.
Want to move the sun so the backlighting is just over your model’s left shoulder and you also want lens flares (pick your colours)moving diagonally across the right? Click.

Sep 19, 2024 at 12:32 PM

Eco-Scott
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Demand for high-end cameras is soaring - The Economist

Sep 19, 2024 at 03:41 PM

RoamingScott
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Demand for high-end cameras is soaring - The Economist

fritzx6 wrote:
To the average consumer, I think $1600 for a device that offers ostensibly redundant functionality for a piece of technology that cost half as much, and that they already carry in their pocket everyday, is probably considered a lot, yes.

We enthusiast/hobbyist photographers have a distorted perspective of pricing I think.

The Fuji X100V and VI that you refer to are MSRP 1600 but often sold for more than that second hand due to supply constraints.

The hot market for these fashionable/desirable Fuji P&S's are Zoomers who see instagram and tik tok influencers touting their "filmic, organic, authentic" qualities.

Crippling student loan debt,...Show more →

Don't underestimate how many of these kids have $1100 phones, $400 Nikes, and on and on. They DO spend a good amount of money on luxury items, but for the most part, cameras aren't one of them.

Sep 19, 2024 at 03:46 PM

bjhurley
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Demand for high-end cameras is soaring - The Economist

Desmolicious wrote:
Unfortunately/fortunately - depending on your POV - none of that will matter in the very near future for digital photography.
Software and AI will give any look you need - no need for high end optics/artistic lenses etc

True, but just as there has been a resurgence toward film in part because it's viewed as more "authentic" (by some) and "not digital," there will probably continue to be demand for actual lenses and cameras (digital and film) as we currently know them. For some people, it's not only the image and how it looks that count, it's how it was created.

My partner does amazingly detailed cross-stitch projects on linen and other fine fabrics that take upwards of 10 years each to complete...these are not your grandmother's cross-stitches. Essentially every stitch is like a pixel and when the image is complete it's like a high-resolution tapestry. A machine could do the same thing in 10 minutes or less, but hers have more perceived value because of the way they were created: someone sat there for many, many hours creating an image by hand, stitch by stitch.

Sep 19, 2024 at 04:06 PM

stgrove
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Demand for high-end cameras is soaring - The Economist

Was the Q model from Leica mentioned in the Economist article?

Sep 19, 2024 at 04:19 PM

Desmolicious
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Demand for high-end cameras is soaring - The Economist

RoamingScott wrote:
Don't underestimate how many of these kids have $1100 phones, $400 Nikes, and on and on. They DO spend a good amount of money on luxury items, but for the most part, cameras aren't one of them.

Well, unless it is spending $1000 on a Contax T2.

Sep 19, 2024 at 06:15 PM

d.s.
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Demand for high-end cameras is soaring - The Economist

fritzx6 wrote:
To the average consumer, I think $1600 for a device that offers ostensibly redundant functionality for a piece of technology that cost half as much, and that they already carry in their pocket everyday, is probably considered a lot, yes.

We enthusiast/hobbyist photographers have a distorted perspective of pricing I think.

The Fuji X100V and VI that you refer to are MSRP 1600 but often sold for more than that second hand due to supply constraints.

The hot market for these fashionable/desirable Fuji P&S's are Zoomers who see instagram and tik tok influencers touting their "filmic, organic, authentic" qualities.

Crippling student loan debt,...Show more →

Well put.

Edited on Sep 19, 2024 at 06:29 PM · View previous versions

Sep 19, 2024 at 06:27 PM

d.s.
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Demand for high-end cameras is soaring - The Economist

I just did a search for FF cams on b&h. You can get some for under a grand?! Man, times have changed.

Sep 19, 2024 at 06:29 PM

sirimiri
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Demand for high-end cameras is soaring - The Economist

stgrove wrote:
Was the Q model from Leica mentioned in the Economist article?

"Premium cameras...bucking the trend. Waiting lists for...Q3...were initially six-months...its success contributed to record sales at the...firm last year."

Sep 20, 2024 at 12:22 AM

ilkka_nissila
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Demand for high-end cameras is soaring - The Economist

Desmolicious wrote:
Unfortunately/fortunately - depending on your POV - none of that will matter in the very near future for digital photography.
Software and AI will give any look you need - no need for high end optics/artistic lenses etc

Want swirly bokeh? Click. Want glowing highlights? Click. Want shallow DOF with no field curvature or vignetting? Click.
Want to move the sun so the backlighting is just over your model’s left shoulder and you also want lens flares (pick your colours)moving diagonally across the right? Click.

Some effects can be simulated in software while others can not. The phone camera software capabilities give a misleading idea of what works and what doesn't work because the images are viewed on tiny screens at some distance away. If you want high-quality results, it's not possible to simulate shallow depth of field correctly based on a single 2D image, you need either a multiple camera setup (which gives a limited ability to measure distance and calculate blur based on that) or a light field camera (which has low resolution). These smartphone camera features give artifacts which can appear quite gross, as they try to estimate something for which they don't have enough data. Wide-aperture lenses also give more light to the sensor which impacts SNR and if the subject is moving there is no way to simulate that without a large-aperture lens. Noise-reduction software doesn't replace images which have a lot of information (including a lot of photons detected) unless the viewer is very undemanding and undiscerning. The camera works in a three dimensional world (spatially) and produces a two-dimenisional result which is influenced by the third dimension in the real world, this cannot be easily simulated reliably without gathering a lot of data.

Furthermore, as the algorithms are fed images from the internet, as the net becomes polluted with mostly AI-made images, the source is contaminated and the AI gets lost in no man's land where it produces its own fantasy further and further away from the real world.

A lot of people find the fascination of photography to be related to its ability to portray real-world events and places. This interest is lost and one has to turn away when the fictional component becomes dominant. I would expect as political elections are influenced with fake gen AI images and are used to purposefully lie about candidates and events in the real world, there will be a backslash and people will start appreciating facts and images that portray the world without manipulation or fakery more.

Sep 20, 2024 at 06:42 AM

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