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R5II has less colour cast on Vintage Voigt Super Wide Helier 15

Scott Stoness
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · R5II has less colour cast on Vintage Voigt Super Wide Helier 15

Today I tried R5 and R5II with my old Voigt Super Wide Helier 15 v2.

Good news! - The R5II has less colour cast to my examination !!

This makes the usability of vintage lens much improved, when using R5II.

===================

Below is

This post - mostly unprocessed R5II vs R5 (f8, 0.8m) out my balcony.

2nd post - same but with LR lens profiling and some manual vignetting adjustments.

[I think the R5ii/voigt could be quite good with a little pull down in purple colour].

R5II

Canon EOS R5m2 1/320s 125 ISO -0.3 EV

Canon EOS R5 1/250s 100 ISO -0.3 EV

Edited on Sep 07, 2024 at 03:00 PM · View previous versions

Sep 06, 2024 at 01:45 PM

Scott Stoness
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · R5II has less colour cast on Vintage Voigt Super Wide Helier 15

With LR Voigt lens correction selected and a bit of vignetting correction.

R5II

Canon EOS R5m2 1/320s 125 ISO -0.3 EV

Canon EOS R5 1/250s 100 ISO -0.3 EV

Sep 06, 2024 at 01:46 PM

rscheffler
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · R5II has less colour cast on Vintage Voigt Super Wide Helier 15

That's great news for sure! I think there is still a slight shift, but it's much, much better than the R5. In your initial post, does 0.8m mean you set the focusing ring to that distance? If so, colour fringing is worst if the lens is at infinity (so that the rear element/exit pupil) is at its closest distance to the sensor.

Based on your evaluation of the full-res images, do you see any obvious edge detail smearing? This specific lens in M-mount already seems well optimized for non-Leica M sensor stack thickness given that it appears to perform equally well on stock Sony sensors. Would be interesting to see how other M-mount lenses perform on the R5II, both for colour cast and edge smearing.

Sep 06, 2024 at 04:06 PM

stanj
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · R5II has less colour cast on Vintage Voigt Super Wide Helier 15

I wonder how that would be, optically / physically - assuming processing is the same.

Sep 06, 2024 at 04:12 PM

Scott Stoness
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · R5II has less colour cast on Vintage Voigt Super Wide Helier 15

rscheffler wrote:
That's great news for sure! I think there is still a slight shift, but it's much, much better than the R5. In your initial post, does 0.8m mean you set the focusing ring to that distance? If so, colour fringing is worst if the lens is at infinity (so that the rear element/exit pupil) is at its closest distance to the sensor.

Based on your evaluation of the full-res images, do you see any obvious edge detail smearing? This specific lens in M-mount already seems well optimized for non-Leica M sensor stack thickness given that it appears to perform equally well...Show more →

There is a slight shift but it used to be much more.
0.8metres but it had an fotodiox LM-EOSR adapter that I think made 0.8m longer.
At 0.8m it was sharp at infinity.
It was quite sharp at edges too.

There are several Voigt 15's. Original for Leica, V2 for Leica, and V3 optimised for Sony digital cameras. Mine is the v2.
The voigt 15 that performs well on Sony is the v3. It is heavier and longer - and what's the point.
This v2 adapted is better on Sony than R5, but the R5ii does better - only having a small colour cast. I don't have my Ar72 to check but I think the Canon is better from recollection.

I am hopeful that this test suggests that the r5ii is okay for Leica lens adapted.

I will see if I can find some time at infinity but at f4.5 (open) it indicates within standard sharpness range to infinity by 1.6meters setting (7'). And 5' at f5.6. Eg it is so wide that focus is hard to miss.

Edited on Sep 07, 2024 at 02:59 PM · View previous versions

Sep 06, 2024 at 06:19 PM

Scott Stoness
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · R5II has less colour cast on Vintage Voigt Super Wide Helier 15

stanj wrote:
I wonder how that would be, optically / physically - assuming processing is the same.

My Sony a7r2 had less colour cast than R5. The A7r1 had significantly more colour shift. vSo there is something going on in the R5 original that shifts colour.

In past discussions, the thickness (thicker proportional to colour shift at edges) of the cover glass on sensor caused some colour shift on uwa lens. So it could be just thinner glass cover on R5II sensor. That's my best guess.

But I gave up on this lens on R5 because it required too much colour shifting correction in photoshop. I love the iq, size and simplicity of this lens, so I am going to start using it again. 15mm switches to 24mm at 1.6x crop mode too.

Sep 06, 2024 at 06:22 PM

rscheffler
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · R5II has less colour cast on Vintage Voigt Super Wide Helier 15

stanj wrote:
I wonder how that would be, optically / physically - assuming processing is the same.

Scott Stoness wrote:
My Sony a7r2 had less colour cast than R5. The A7r1 had significantly more colour shift. vSo there is something going on in the R5 original that shifts colour.

The A7r (first version) and R5 (first version) are both non-BSI sensor, which are more prone to this effect when the lens's exit pupil distance is very short (light rays projected to the periphery of the sensor arrive at increasingly oblique angles). The VM 15/4.5 v2 is really just an M-mount remount of the original LTM lens and optically the same. The LTM lens was designed and released for film cameras at the end of the film era (around 1999 according to the Cameraquest website). It's highly unlikely any consideration was given to how it might perform on digital. The current (third) version was redesigned for digital and released in 2015. It's the version I thought you had, but it's not, which is even better news given how problematic the original 15/4.5 optical design is for many digital sensors.

Systems with short flange distances require lenses to be designed so that peripheral image light rays arrive at the sensor as perpendicular as possible to avoid the colour shift problem, as well as increasingly higher light refraction through the glass layers above the sensor the farther off-axis, which can introduce astigmatism if not accounted for in the lens's design.

Sep 06, 2024 at 10:31 PM

Toothwalker
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · R5II has less colour cast on Vintage Voigt Super Wide Helier 15

Scott Stoness wrote:
My Sony a7r2 had less colour cast than R5. The A7r1 had significantly more colour shift. vSo there is something going on in the R5 original that shifts colour.

In past discussions, the thickness (thicker proportional to colour shift at edges) of the cover glass on sensor caused some colour shift on uwa lens. So it could be just thinner glass cover on R5II sensor. That's my best guess.

It is the backside illumination aspect of the sensor which yields a better angular response. Canon cannot make the cover glass thinner, as it is part of the RF lens designs.

Sep 07, 2024 at 12:12 PM


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