p.12 #4 · Sony 85mm f/1.4 GM II Announced—Pre-Orders Now Open!
Donbioh wrote:
Yes, it's great. But you can correct it with one click in Capture One. In this respect... :-)
Right, I'm actually a fan of the Sigma, as I never get to see the distortion due to profiles, as you mention. And the resolution is still extremely high.
There are optical purists among us though ...
p.12 #5 · Sony 85mm f/1.4 GM II Announced—Pre-Orders Now Open!
j4nu wrote:
Right, I'm actually a fan of the Sigma, as I never get to see the distortion due to profiles, as you mention. And the resolution is still extremely high.
There are optical purists among us though ...
Yes, that's probably true.
I'm actually a fan of Sony lenses and rather against third-party lenses. Because - at least that's how it used to be - the autofocus on Sony lenses always worked better than the autofocus on third-party manufacturers like Sigma, Samyang and the like.
But I don't particularly see that in this case. And in my tests so far, the perhaps slightly faster autofocus of the GM II is negligible and even with this lens, the focus with the A7 IV didn't always sit with normal movements of children.
It's a shame really, I would have liked to have kept the GM II and paid the high surcharge of EUR 1,300 (purchase GM II minus sale Sigma), but given the test and usage results so far, that would probably not have been a good move.
p.12 #6 · Sony 85mm f/1.4 GM II Announced—Pre-Orders Now Open!
Donbioh wrote:
Yes, that's probably true.
I'm actually a fan of Sony lenses and rather against third-party lenses. Because - at least that's how it used to be - the autofocus on Sony lenses always worked better than the autofocus on third-party manufacturers like Sigma, Samyang and the like.
But I don't particularly see that in this case. And in my tests so far, the perhaps slightly faster autofocus of the GM II is negligible and even with this lens, the focus with the A7 IV didn't always sit with normal movements of children.
It's a shame really, I would have liked to have kept the GM II and paid the high surcharge of EUR 1,300 (purchase GM II minus sale Sigma), but given the test and usage results so far, that would probably not have been a good move. ...Show more →
That's a bit disconcerting about Sony's AF...
I might be an outlier here, but I don't actually believe Sigma's AF to be bad. It's perfectly okay for for most shooting scenarios with 85/1.4, even some action as long as the movement is lateral. It's only when the movement is rapid towards you with rather shallow DoF, then Sigma's AF starts to fall apart...
I'd expect GM II to be a *lot* better in this scenario.
Regarding eyeAF precision, it really is a bit of a gamble even in static scenes if you're shooting from an angle (not straight-on). Funnily enough, I've found SY85/1.4 AF II to be great in avoiding eye*lash*AF, but that might have been a coincidence, as in general AF was not better (I'd even say it was worse) than the Sigma...
p.12 #7 · Sony 85mm f/1.4 GM II Announced—Pre-Orders Now Open!
j4nu wrote:
That's a bit disconcerting about Sony's AF...
I might be an outlier here, but I don't actually believe Sigma's AF to be bad. It's perfectly okay for for most shooting scenarios with 85/1.4, even some action as long as the movement is lateral. It's only when the movement is rapid towards you with rather shallow DoF, then Sigma's AF starts to fall apart...
I'd expect GM II to be a *lot* better in this scenario.
Regarding eyeAF precision, it really is a bit of a gamble even in static scenes if you're shooting from an angle (not straight-on). Funnily enough, I've found SY85/1.4 AF II to be great in avoiding eye*lash*AF, but that might have been a coincidence, as in general AF was not better (I'd even say it was worse) than the Sigma......Show more →
That's right. You can get good, sharp photos from the side with any lens.
And I also said here that the eye autofocus was sharp in one situation with the Sigma in a side portrait and NOT with the GM II. So the “much better” AF of the GM II was not noticeable.
Yesterday on the playground there was a child on a seesaw, which was always moving forwards and backwards quite quickly. With the 85 GM II and the A7 IV, I didn't get a single picture where the eye, let alone the face, was in focus.
It might be different with an A9 III.
I always take 10 continuous shots with children anyway. I usually end up with a few sharp images that I can always keep the best of each situation in post-processing. It's more work, but this way I usually always have a sharp eye photo 100% of the time.
And yes, I didn't find the AF of the Sigma worse than that of the GM II, on the contrary, in some situations the AF of the Sigma was even better, maybe a game of chance, but the result was better.
p.12 #8 · Sony 85mm f/1.4 GM II Announced—Pre-Orders Now Open!
Donbioh wrote:
That's right. You can get good, sharp photos from the side with any lens.
And I also said here that the eye autofocus was sharp in one situation with the Sigma in a side portrait and NOT with the GM II. So the “much better” AF of the GM II was not noticeable.
Yesterday on the playground there was a child on a seesaw, which was always moving forwards and backwards quite quickly. With the 85 GM II and the A7 IV, I didn't get a single picture where the eye, let alone the face, was in focus.
It might be different with an A9 III.
I always take 10 continuous shots with children anyway. I usually end up with a few sharp images that I can always keep the best of each situation in post-processing. It's more work, but this way I usually always have a sharp eye photo 100% of the time.
And yes, I didn't find the AF of the Sigma worse than that of the GM II, on the contrary, in some situations the AF of the Sigma was even better, maybe a game of chance, but the result was better. ...Show more →
Hmm if you don't see any AF improvement even in rapid movement towards the camera with shallow DoF, then indeed GM II seems like a questionable "upgrade"...
p.12 #9 · Sony 85mm f/1.4 GM II Announced—Pre-Orders Now Open!
Donbioh wrote:
Yes, that's probably true.
I'm actually a fan of Sony lenses and rather against third-party lenses. Because - at least that's how it used to be - the autofocus on Sony lenses always worked better than the autofocus on third-party manufacturers like Sigma, Samyang and the like.
But I don't particularly see that in this case. And in my tests so far, the perhaps slightly faster autofocus of the GM II is negligible and even with this lens, the focus with the A7 IV didn't always sit with normal movements of children.
It's a shame really, I would have liked to have kept the GM II and paid the high surcharge of EUR 1,300 (purchase GM II minus sale Sigma), but given the test and usage results so far, that would probably not have been a good move. ...Show more →
Like the GMI, probably put a lot of emphasis in the optical design to prioritize static portraiture vs action. Fast 85 is a lot of glass and unless you put a big expensive AF motor in it, it will be hard to drive the optics to excel for action. I always understood this to be the use case for the MKI and not necessarily put off by this in the MKII. This tended to be the case even back in the Canon days where the better 85 for any kind of movement was the 1.8.
p.12 #10 · Sony 85mm f/1.4 GM II Announced—Pre-Orders Now Open!
j4nu wrote:
Hmm if you don't see any AF improvement even in rapid movement towards the camera with shallow DoF, then indeed GM II seems like a questionable "upgrade"...
Yep especially of the rendering leans more towards the 35GM and 135GM and less towards 85GMI and 24GM
p.12 #11 · Sony 85mm f/1.4 GM II Announced—Pre-Orders Now Open!
I have the 85 GM ii in use since last week in Belgium.I am astonish how exact the AF is compared to the sigma 85.The 85 GM ii is exact on the eye ball , ALSO on fast moving people.Corner sharpness is better too (perhaps not relevant for portrait) and much less barrel distortion compared to the sigma.I only tested the 85 GM ii on the a9iii.I would definitely buy the lens again.I sold the sigma
p.12 #12 · Sony 85mm f/1.4 GM II Announced—Pre-Orders Now Open!
Orsonneke wrote:
I have the 85 GM ii in use since last week in Belgium.I am astonish how exact the AF is compared to the sigma 85.The 85 GM ii is exact on the eye ball , ALSO on fast moving people.Corner sharpness is better too (perhaps not relevant for portrait) and much less barrel distortion compared to the sigma.I only tested the 85 GM ii on the a9iii.I would definitely buy the lens again.I sold the sigma
Great to hear! I will also be using it on the A9III
p.12 #13 · Sony 85mm f/1.4 GM II Announced—Pre-Orders Now Open!
Orsonneke wrote:
I have the 85 GM ii in use since last week in Belgium.I am astonish how exact the AF is compared to the sigma 85.The 85 GM ii is exact on the eye ball , ALSO on fast moving people.Corner sharpness is better too (perhaps not relevant for portrait) and much less barrel distortion compared to the sigma.I only tested the 85 GM ii on the a9iii.I would definitely buy the lens again.I sold the sigma
I hope this doesn't mean that you need A9III to get accurate eyeAF with the GM II ...
Do you hear any AF noise like @Donbioh does?
Sep 17, 2024 at 06:31 AM
Steve Spencer Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
p.12 #14 · Sony 85mm f/1.4 GM II Announced—Pre-Orders Now Open!
j4nu wrote:
I hope this doesn't mean that you need A9III to get accurate eyeAF with the GM II ...
Do you hear any AF noise like @Donbioh@ does?
Keep in mind Don was using the A7 IV which is behind other current offerings from Sony in just the area he was having problems. Here is a quote from the DPreview discussion of this camera's AF:
"However, we did find that the a7 IV can tend to very slightly front-focus when using Face/Eye detection, leaving the eye-lashes perfectly in focus but the pupil very slightly soft. This isn't going to be an issue for everyday social photography, but if you're trying to shoot portraits with shallow depth-of-field, the a7 IV doesn't seem to be quite as dependably accurate as the previous generation of Sony cameras."
It seems quite possible that he isn't seeing a better hit rate for 85 GM II over the Sigma 85 DG DN because the camera he is using can't deliver that hit rate.
It may not take an A9 III to see that hit rate either. Here is a quote from the DPreview discussion of the A7r V's AF:
"The good news is that, for the most part, you don't need to think about or edit much of this at all. Choose AF-C and a small tracking AF point and the camera will track whatever you point it at pretty well. Specify that you want it to focus on Humans (just faces and eyes, perhaps) and it'll do extremely well. In our practice focus didn't always perfectly hit the subject's pupil but it's only the camera's high pixel count that allowed us to see any imprecision: we can't think of another camera or AF method that would have delivered better results."
Of course we will have to see, but there is good reason to hope, IMO, that the 85 GM II will have great AF with the latest cameras that are capable of providing the same precision that the lens is capable of providing.
p.12 #15 · Sony 85mm f/1.4 GM II Announced—Pre-Orders Now Open!
I'm happy to be corrected, but I thought the eye AF issues with the A7IV were supposed to be corrected by a firmware update (possibly v1.1 I think) some time ago?
Steve Spencer wrote:
Keep in mind Don was using the A7 IV which is behind other current offerings from Sony in just the area he was having problems. Here is a quote from the DPreview discussion of this camera's AF:
"However, we did find that the a7 IV can tend to very slightly front-focus when using Face/Eye detection, leaving the eye-lashes perfectly in focus but the pupil very slightly soft. This isn't going to be an issue for everyday social photography, but if you're trying to shoot portraits with shallow depth-of-field, the a7 IV doesn't seem to be quite as dependably accurate as the previous generation of Sony cameras."
It seems quite possible that he isn't seeing a better hit rate for 85 GM II over the Sigma 85 DG DN because the camera he is using can't deliver that hit rate.
It may not take an A9 III to see that hit rate either. Here is a quote from the DPreview discussion of the A7r V's AF:
"The good news is that, for the most part, you don't need to think about or edit much of this at all. Choose AF-C and a small tracking AF point and the camera will track whatever you point it at pretty well. Specify that you want it to focus on Humans (just faces and eyes, perhaps) and it'll do extremely well. In our practice focus didn't always perfectly hit the subject's pupil but it's only the camera's high pixel count that allowed us to see any imprecision: we can't think of another camera or AF method that would have delivered better results."
Of course we will have to see, but there is good reason to hope, IMO, that the 85 GM II will have great AF with the latest cameras that are capable of providing the same precision that the lens is capable of providing....Show more →
p.12 #16 · Sony 85mm f/1.4 GM II Announced—Pre-Orders Now Open!
I have only heard AMAZING things about the new 85 GMII with regard to how lightning fast the AF works. I hear it's similar to a 135 GM, but perhaps a bit faster.
Sounds like a wonderful 85 that can double for both sport and portrait.
I've been lucky enough to shoot all the wonderful OEM 85mm primes and the 58/105 from nikon.
The Canon 85 1.2 ef, the 1.2 rf. The Sony 1.4GM. The Nikon 85 1.4g, the 58 1.4g, 105 1.4e
They are either not great for sport, or very heavy. You can't have everything right?
Wrong.
The 85 GMII looks to be exactly what I wished for.
A lens with nice rendering/color/sharpness.
Great for portrait/wedding, that is what an 85 is known for right?
But the intangibles are what sets them apart.
With this new GMII, for an OEM 1.2 or 1.4, I can't think of one that had all three of the below.
1. Superior AF ability (so I can shoot indoor tennis, one of my bread and butter gigs)
2. Size/Weight factor (12 hour wedding days, I have always wanted a 35/85 1.4 combo that are each < 650 grams)
3. Features, AF buttons on the lens, this seems silly, but I LOVE it for sport and for long wedding days.
I'm excited.
I prefer OEM b/c it's future proof (with regard to firmware updates from Sony).
I really use the AF tech.
Sep 17, 2024 at 11:45 AM
Steve Spencer Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
p.12 #17 · Sony 85mm f/1.4 GM II Announced—Pre-Orders Now Open!
JD07 wrote:
I'm happy to be corrected, but I thought the eye AF issues with the A7IV were supposed to be corrected by a firmware update (possibly v1.1 I think) some time ago?
I am sure it has been improved with firmware, but the A7 IV does not have the sensor scan speed of the A1 or A9 cameras and the extra calculations that provides, nor the advance AI module of the A7r V, so the 85 GM II might well work with those more advanced cameras even though it struggles with the A7 IV. That struggle could be the camera more than the lens.
p.12 #18 · Sony 85mm f/1.4 GM II Announced—Pre-Orders Now Open!
No Sony cam can touch the A7RV, A7CR or the A9III they all have the same AF tracking ability levels. I found the A7IV marginally okay and that's it. I shoot moving models on stage and even the A1 failed to track effectively compared to the A7RV which sticks like superglue on AF tracking but realize your looking at a new lens that has improved its AF tracking by a large margin so it should work fine with everything today but you face stand out cams as I just just mentioned that will be better . You want the best you have to buy the newer models wit that AF tracking ability. I had major focus issues with I think it was the A7R3 and the 85 version 1 where it failed on a job to keep up the 85 1.8 did far better so anything reaching above the 85 version 1 is going to be outstanding regardless of camera now but still there is the A&RV/A9III and even the A7CR that will smoke other models. Honestly id would sell the damn A7RIV and update if the AF tracking abilities are what you are after. I can't fail on a job as im being paid so I go after the best I can get in my hands. Im not going to lose clients or gigs over it. But that's me you have to decide this if you want the best Sony has to offer.
Sep 17, 2024 at 01:48 PM
Steve Spencer Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
p.12 #19 · Sony 85mm f/1.4 GM II Announced—Pre-Orders Now Open!
Donbioh wrote:
To be honest, I had different expectations of the 85 GM II in terms of weight and size.
So far, all GM lenses presented have been smaller and lighter than their Sigma counterparts
Sony 24 GM / Sigma 24: 445 g to 520 g and 9.4 cm to 9.5 cm
Sony 35 GM / Sigma 35: 524 g to 645 g and 9.6 cm to 11.1 cm
Sony 50 GM / Sigma 50: 516 g to 670 g and 9.6 cm to 10.9 cm
And now the GM II is heavier and larger than the four-year-old Sigma:
Sony 85 GM II / Sigma 85: 642 g to 625 g and 10.7 cm to 9.6 cm
It's not much with the 85 GM II, but it's not about 100g lighter and shorter. ...Show more →
You also missed the 50 f/1.2 lenses which have size differences close to the 85 f/1.4 lenses:
Sony 50 f/1.2 GM/ Sigma 50 f/1.2 DG DN: 778g to 740g and 10.8 cm to 11.1cm
...