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R5II Precapture

arbitrage
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p.4 #1 · p.4 #1 · R5II Precapture

stanj wrote:
I respect you as a photographer, but your results clearly contradict my results

I have supported mine with photos of a stopwatch. In my case, precapture is always 15 frames, regardless of frame rate, thus 2s at 7.5fps.

Either one of us is experimenting wrong or there are different ways to set it up.
**EDIT** See my posts further down and ignore what I said in this one if you had already read it. Somehow I had moved my camera back to 30FPS when I did my stopwatch test. My other tests confirm what you are seeing...at 5FPS, I got 15 frames but they covered 3s worth of time.

Edited on Sep 01, 2024 at 09:08 PM · View previous versions

Sep 01, 2024 at 07:41 PM

EB-1
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p.4 #2 · p.4 #2 · R5II Precapture

alundeb wrote:
Thanks to all for doing the tests! I am still confused, but I guess that is always the problem with time machines. Travelling back in time never sends you to the time you expect. What's next? Dinosaurs showing up in pre-capture?

EB-1 wrote:
0.5 seconds don't help what I'm attempting to achieve. I cannot make the time to increase to a usable amount, but maybe there is some other setting. For now it's turned off. It should be more like the Omega 13.

EBH

cpe1991 wrote:
What are you trying to achieve?

Maybe 1-3 seconds for starters.

Edit: I figured out the problem. The shutter button must be continuously halfway down for the full period of time that the 15 frames may take, which varies from 0.5 sec to longer. If you lift up just briefly it all goes away. The * or AF-On does not activate the pre-capture at least not in the modes I'm using.

EBH

Edited on Sep 01, 2024 at 11:35 PM · View previous versions

Sep 01, 2024 at 07:46 PM

arbitrage
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p.4 #3 · p.4 #3 · R5II Precapture

lighthound wrote:
I think you misunderstood what he said. You both have confirmed 15 frames regardless of set fps.
At least that's what I understood from both of your reports.

This sounds like the perfect way to handle it. You want as many frames in that .5 seconds as you can get.

Stan seems to have results that show it is always 15 shots (I agree with that) but he says it is shooting at the selected FPS. In my test at 5FPS the 15 frames covered exactly 0.5s of time....not 3s if Stan is correct.
If I"d read this earlier I would have ran a few more tests at different FPS but I already returned the camera to my friend....oh well. Will post my stopwatch photos later.

Sep 01, 2024 at 07:47 PM

cpe1991
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p.4 #4 · p.4 #4 · R5II Precapture

arbitrage wrote:
I got the same results as you. 15 shots. But it is 15 shots for 0.5s so shooting at 30FPS regardless of FPS. It isn't 15 shots for 0.5s x set FPS. In my example that would have given me 3 seconds back in time (15 frames/5FPS=3s) but it only gave 0.5s back in time.
I have stopwatch photos but haven't downloaded my card yet. My stopwatch goes down to hundredths of a second (iPhone) It was a long, tiring day of shooting so I'll get to culling tomorrow.

Really looking forward to your assessment, Geoff. I’m flying back to UK from Seattle on the 1.30 flight tomorrow so if you are early I might get to see them before take off! An R5ii should be waiting for me.

Sep 01, 2024 at 08:16 PM

Visually Oriented
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p.4 #5 · p.4 #5 · R5II Precapture

arbitrage wrote:
Stan seems to have results that show it is always 15 shots (I agree with that) but he says it is shooting at the selected FPS. In my test at 5FPS the 15 frames covered exactly 0.5s of time....not 3s if Stan is correct.
If I"d read this earlier I would have ran a few more tests at different FPS but I already returned the camera to my friend....oh well. Will post my stopwatch photos later.

I've tested this numerous times in several different ways including photographing a running timer... the results are always the same:

In pre-continuous shooting the camera captures up to 15 images at the SELECTED FRAME RATE.

When I set the camera to 5fps and then half-press the shutter button for 1 second before fully pressing the shutter button pre-continuous shooting captures 5 frames. If I set the camera at 7.5fps and half press the shutter button for 1 second before fully pressing the shutter button pre-continuous shooting records 8 images. Not once did the camera capture 15 frames when I half-pressed the shutter for 1 second.

To see that pre-continuos capture runs at different speeds depending on the selected frame rate you just need to look in the viewfinder....With pre-continuos shooting on and the camera set at a slow frame rate the buffer in the bottom right of the screen counts down much slower than when the camera is set at 30fps.

Sep 01, 2024 at 08:25 PM

arbitrage
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p.4 #6 · p.4 #6 · R5II Precapture

Visually Oriented wrote:
I've tested this numerous times in several different ways including photographing a running timer... the results are always the same:

In pre-continuous shooting the camera captures up to 15 images at the SELECTED FRAME RATE.

When I set the camera to 5fps and then half-press the shutter button for 1 second before fully pressing the shutter button pre-continuous shooting captures 5 frames. If I set the camera at 7.5fps and half press the shutter button for 1 second before fully pressing the shutter button pre-continuous shooting records 8 images. Not once did the camera capture 15 frames when I half-pressed the...Show more →

Okay...odd...I will go download my shots and check my images. I don't know how I wasn't seeing 3s worth of shots when I was set to 5FPS?? I made sure to keep my half-press longer than 3s so I knew the pre-capture would be full if it was doing 15 shots at 5FPS = 3s.
I guess maybe you and Stan are correct and it shoots 15 frames at the selected FPS I don't understand how I didn't get that result.

Sep 01, 2024 at 08:29 PM

arbitrage
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p.4 #7 · p.4 #7 · R5II Precapture

Okay, I'm not sure what was going on...I checked my photos and it was taking 15 frames at 30FPS but for 0.5s but then it seems like the camera was set at 30FPS as the subsequent frames it took after I pressed the shutter (4 extra frames) are also at 30FPS.

I deleted my post. I'm going to go with what Visually Oriented and Stan have said as they did more testing than me and I don't have the camera anymore to double check.

I can't figure out how it was on 30FPS as I went in, changed my Low FPS drive speed down to 5FPS and then went in via the Q menu and changed to the Low FPS setting instead of H+. But somehow maybe it didn't stick??

****EDIT***
I went and downloaded DPP...god help me....was able to check the time stamps and the FPS settings of my other bursts where I didn't shoot the stopwatch.

For some reason the shots of the stopwatch were set at H+ and therefore I got the 15 shots at 30FPS (despite me thinking I'd been set at 5FPS).
Looking at the time stamps of my other sequences just shooting trees it is showing 3s worth of time covering the 15 shots. So it was shooting at 5FPS during precapture.

Sorry for the confusion earlier!!

Sep 01, 2024 at 08:39 PM

stanj
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p.4 #8 · p.4 #8 · R5II Precapture

EB-1 wrote:
0.5 seconds don't help what I'm attempting to achieve. I cannot make the time to increase to a usable amount, but maybe there is some other setting.

It's 3s if you set the frame rate to 5fps. It's 2s if you set it to 7.5fps.

Sep 02, 2024 at 12:11 AM

EB-1
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p.4 #9 · p.4 #9 · R5II Precapture

EB-1 wrote:
0.5 seconds don't help what I'm attempting to achieve. I cannot make the time to increase to a usable amount, but maybe there is some other setting.

stanj wrote:
It's 3s if you set the frame rate to 5fps. It's 2s if you set it to 7.5fps.

Apparently I was not holding the half-press down long enough.
I need like three hands and an extra brain to operate this camera while I'm trying to take pictures at the same time.

EBH

Sep 02, 2024 at 12:16 AM

arbitrage
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p.4 #10 · p.4 #10 · R5II Precapture

Now that I know how this precapture truly works. I'd actually have preferred it to work the way I thought it was yesterday.
Then you could shoot at a more tame FPS like 20 or 15 for the majority of your shooting and anytime you let the precapture run you get the 30FPS, 0.5s back. Anything further back than 0.5s is just wasting shots for bird photography that I do. Even at 0.5s I'm getting 3-4 shots of the bird just sitting on the perch before it even starts to move to take off. If you run pre-capture at 20FPS or slower you will be going much further into the past and have even more useless shots before the takeoff (or whatever else you are trying to capture with it).

For the R5II, if you plan to use pre-capture, I'd set my FPS at 30 and forget about it....you get the same 15 shots regardless of FPS (what genius came up with that?) and you will get less of those 15 shots being useless. I mean at say 10FPS you will go 1.5s into the past....I'd say 1.2s of that will be useless so you will get very few frames to choose from of the bird actually in action (example taking off).
When using precapture on the A9III I found it really shined at 60 or 120FPS to get cool flight poses on takeoff. I found in culling all my precapture bursts on the R5II from yesterday that I wasn't getting as many shots to choose from as I'd have like even at 30FPS at least for takeoffs. For shooting a GBH tossing fish it was sufficient though. So really depends what you plan to use it for.

Sep 02, 2024 at 06:58 AM

EB-1
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p.4 #11 · p.4 #11 · R5II Precapture

It seems that you want separately adjustable pre-capture and continuous FPS. Better yet would be a settable pre-capture number of frames and larger buffer so that the faster speeds could be use for a longer time.

My use case is more concerned with the continuing action after the initial burst. Losing more of the buffer can be a problem if the action continues long after the pre-capture. I seriously doubt that Canon will change the parameters now.

EBH

Sep 02, 2024 at 08:39 AM

stanj
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p.4 #12 · p.4 #12 · R5II Precapture

What I want is being able to have pre-capture AND frame rate as part of the recall function. When I have a perched owl I have recall set to Tv 1/125s (or 1/80s). For that, I don't need 30fps, but when the owl goes, I sure want to. I don't need pre-capture for a sitting owl, either

Seriously, why frame rate isn't one of the myriad recall settings has baffled me for many years.

Sep 02, 2024 at 10:15 AM

rscheffler
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p.4 #13 · p.4 #13 · R5II Precapture

EB-1 wrote:
It seems that you want separately adjustable pre-capture and continuous FPS. Better yet would be a settable pre-capture number of frames and larger buffer so that the faster speeds could be use for a longer time.

My use case is more concerned with the continuing action after the initial burst. Losing more of the buffer can be a problem if the action continues long after the pre-capture. I seriously doubt that Canon will change the parameters now.

EBH

Yes, I doubt there will be any significant changes now. Consider it took a whole new camera to be able to select a range of frame rates for each continuous advance setting, which one would think could be done 'simply' with a firmware update.

The buffer is one of the points of differentiation between the R5II and R1.... which of course means you have to choose shorter bursts and higher resolution, or the opposite (for more money

Sep 02, 2024 at 10:22 AM

Flowernut
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p.4 #14 · p.4 #14 · R5II Precapture

has anyone come up with a quick way to turn pre capture on and off?

Sep 02, 2024 at 11:56 AM

Visually Oriented
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p.4 #15 · p.4 #15 · R5II Precapture

Flowernut wrote:
has anyone come up with a quick way to turn pre capture on and off?

Depends on what you consider "quick"

You can turn pre-continuos shooting on/off with the:

-Q Menu
-My Menu
-Save pre-continuos shooting to C1-3 (along with desired frame rate) and configure a button like M-Fn to toggle to the custom mode.

Sep 02, 2024 at 12:17 PM

arbitrage
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p.4 #16 · p.4 #16 · R5II Precapture

stanj wrote:
What I want is being able to have pre-capture AND frame rate as part of the recall function. When I have a perched owl I have recall set to Tv 1/125s (or 1/80s). For that, I don't need 30fps, but when the owl goes, I sure want to. I don't need pre-capture for a sitting owl, either

Seriously, why frame rate isn't one of the myriad recall settings has baffled me for many years.

Have you tried using the C mode toggle method? This is how I always shot my Canon cameras to get between "perched" settings and "action" settings. I would limit all the modes to just M and C1. I would then assign the mode toggle to the M-Fn button. Then make sure to turn on the Auto-update for the C1 mode. Then you can have M set to say precapture at 30FPS at high SS, higher ISO and have C1 set to lower FPS, lower SS, lower ISO and no precapture. To go back and forth just one tap on the M-Fn is all you need. But that may not be fast enough if you are shooting the perched owl and then it decides to fly. I'd use it more to take a few perched shots and then quick toggle back to the action settings and wait. I mean how many perched shots does one really need anyways?....they just get boring and redundant after the first minute.

But I agree that it would be nice to have a few more things available in the Recall Reg Settings menu so you can have just a back button ready to go for either flight or perched.

Sep 02, 2024 at 02:09 PM

arbitrage
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p.4 #17 · p.4 #17 · R5II Precapture

I forgot to mention that when I had the camera on Sunday I spent a couple hours sitting in my backyard and shooting the feeder birds. Mostly testing precapture.

I started to get the flashing thermometer symbol indicating the camera was getting hot. Then a min or so later it had the thermometer with a rectangle of bars next to it...I assume these bars may fill up and then the camera would eventually shut off?? Not sure, I don't remember those bars before. Because it wasn't my camera I decided to not push it further. I took it inside, pulled out the very warm CFe-B card and let it cool for 20mins.

It was 25C out and I was sitting in the shade under my upper deck so no direct sun on the camera. I could feel the grip getting warm before the thermometer showed. I was using a Delkin Power 128GB CFe-B card which as I recall was one of the cooler running cards from the ssdreview.com tests. The card was certainly warm...not hot enough to not handle it when I took it out though. I had the extended heat warning setting turned on so would be getting a warning later than without that on (it is off by default on the new camera).

Anyways, just thought I'd put that out there for others to keep an eye on. I have no idea if the camera would have eventually shut off or just flashed the symbol and those bars at me indefinitely.

Edited on Sep 03, 2024 at 02:21 PM · View previous versions

Sep 03, 2024 at 01:43 PM

stanj
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p.4 #18 · p.4 #18 · R5II Precapture

arbitrage wrote:
Anyways, just thought I'd put that out there for others to keep an eye on. I have no idea if the camera would have eventually shut off or just flashed the symbol and those bars at me indefinitely.

Agree, I had the same observation when I was shooting my owls in similar weather. I only got the first level warning and then I backed off, predominantly because it was pretty clear that the owl had more grooming to do before it would fly and I didn't need to waste my battery on that

Sep 03, 2024 at 01:48 PM

koenkooi
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p.4 #19 · p.4 #19 · R5II Precapture

arbitrage wrote:
I forgot to mention that when I had the camera on Sunday I spent a couple hours sitting in my backyard and shooting the feeder birds. Mostly testing precapture.

I started to get the flashing thermometer symbol indicating the camera was getting hot. Then a min or so later it had the thermometer with a rectangle of bars next to it...I assume these bars may fill up and then the camera would eventually shut off?? (...)

Yes, the bars will fill up and the icon will turn red after the 5th bar or so. If you're not doing video, it is extremely unlikely the camera will overheat in 25C when doing stills. The body will get hot, though, especially with the overheat settings at 'high'. I've only had it for 2 weeks, so I can't say for sure, but using pre-capture seems to heat it up quickly as well. Not as quickly as video does by the looks of it, but still something to keep an eye on.

Shooting dragonflies in full sunlight around 11 in the morning and 30C, my R5II was quite warm and the black parts of the 100-500L were toasty. It emptied the battery in slightly less than 2 hours (pre-capture, yay!), but it didn't overheat. I was glad that I wore a wide brimmed hat, I was very close to overheating

The plan is to use the R5II all day in a hide this Sunday, I'm bringing a total of 2 LP-E6P batteries, a huge USB-C powerback and a few LP-E6NHs, as well as an R8. I strongly suspect that the combination of pre-capture and high framerate video at 26C will make it overheat before noon. The R8 overheats just doing stills, but should last long enough for the R5II to cool down

Sep 04, 2024 at 03:45 AM

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