p.2 #1 · Cosina Voigtländer announced discontinuation of 11 VM / LTM lenses
I too can't see them being without the f1.2 lenses for long. Remember the GA process they heralded in the 50/1?
'GA lenses are employed, with their high melting points and ultra-high-refraction glass materials. These manufacturing techniques are very difficult to control during lens creation when compared to standard molded aspherical lenses.' 'All this capability without sacrificing lens performance or increased size is a remarkable feat.'
Well, it so happens all the f1.2 trio used (they are in the past now) two asph elements, just like the 50/1. And these elements fitted into all standard glass lenses, apart from the 50/1.2 which carries a single APD element. Aaph is the cental feature, the very heart of the f1.2 lenses.
The defunct 35-40-50 weighed in at 330g - 315g - 350g. I'm sure they would like to reduce weight and dimensions - EVF M or not. They may build a family based on the 50/1 with its FLE and GA technologies.
And they rushed the 50/1 into the mirrorless world, all mounts. They see it as very important. They won't be sitting on their hands.
p.2 #3 · Cosina Voigtländer announced discontinuation of 11 VM / LTM lenses
rscheffler wrote:
Is this a matter of saying it enough times and it comes true? You seem very confident about this. And Leica would share this info with Cosina??
Just threw it out as option - it wouldn't surprise me if Cosina reverse-engineers Leica's approach to shorter MFD in M-lenses. But I agree with others above that normally first this kind of new lens would appear before older lens models would be phased out. I can only see one other reason why Cosina in such hypothetical case might phase out older lens versions first: to avoid suffering a price drop and people jumping on the bandwagon to buy the older lens version cheaper instead of the new version for a marked up price (this is what I actually would consider doing in such case ).
p.2 #4 · Cosina Voigtländer announced discontinuation of 11 VM / LTM lenses
They discontinued the lenses because they need the metal to make some new Bessas R.
I’d like a trio of 1.0 less corrected then the actual one. Since they are taking the road of smaller lenses design over perfect(boring) rendering, it’s not entirely wishful thinking and 1.0 with all the manufacturers that appeared lately is a feat that sells cause it looks shiny and I would fall for it.
The 1.2 M mount line is probably not selling like crazy so they are simply due to a refresh, smaller, two tones and single coated.
p.2 #6 · Cosina Voigtländer announced discontinuation of 11 VM / LTM lenses
retrofocus wrote:
I think the CV 50/1.2 M-lens was a big success - currently one of the best and closest to Leica 50 mm Noctilux lenses on the market.
Oh, I didn’t mean it was not a good lens and it sure was a success, I have one even if it’s not my favorite, it does a great job. But it’s six years old and I don’t think it still sells well, I think the market for it is saturated, there are some new players too and I think they might want to give the line a new appeal.
The 35mm 1.4 is on their roaster since 2004 and it’s not considered a good lens or it was not for the longest time, so logic is sometimes out of the window in what people like or buy. But Voigtlander sure like their version II and I don’t mind. We all have gas after all.
p.2 #7 · Cosina Voigtländer announced discontinuation of 11 VM / LTM lenses
My most recent Voigtländer purchases, all now discontinued, are a 25mm Snapshot Skopar (second copy, ltm), a 40mm f/2.8 Heliar (ltm) and a Nokton 50mm f/1.1. Cosina's Voigtländer back catalog is a wonderful place to wander through...
p.2 #8 · Cosina Voigtländer announced discontinuation of 11 VM / LTM lenses
mapgraphs wrote:
My most recent Voigtländer purchases, all now discontinued, are a 25mm Snapshot Skopar (second copy, ltm), a 40mm f/2.8 Heliar (ltm) and a Nokton 50mm f/1.1. Cosina's Voigtländer back catalog is a wonderful place to wander through...
It would be great if Cosina took a break from the 35mm and 50mm focal lengths and focused on something different, like new versions of the 12mm, 15mm, or 21mm, or even made a 90mm APO-Lanthar. That said, I wouldn't mind if they also released a compact 35mm f/3.5 APO-Lanthar.
p.2 #11 · Cosina Voigtländer announced discontinuation of 11 VM / LTM lenses
How many 35-50mm lenses can you sensibly use enough to learn each lens? Cosina currently list nineteen VM lenses in that range, six are 35mm and nine are 50mm. The lenses also cover a lot of ground photographically.
p.2 #12 · Cosina Voigtländer announced discontinuation of 11 VM / LTM lenses
philip_pj wrote:
How many 35-50mm lenses can you sensibly use enough to learn each lens? Cosina currently list nineteen VM lenses in that range, six are 35mm and nine are 50mm. The lenses also cover a lot of ground photographically.
This may be because the 35mm and 50mm lenses sell the most. They are also the most usable focal lengths with the M framelines. We have 28mm and 75mm framelines, but some folks have issues with the 28mm, and the 75mm is okay but a bit narrow.
I believe Cosina should create a 21mm f/2.8 Color-Skopar with performance similar to their 28mm lens. I also think they could easily bring back a compact 90mm f/3.5 APO-Lanthar with exceptional performance. The ultra-wide lenses could benefit from an updated optical design, although I still find them excellent. Currently, I own the 12mm and 15mm f/4.5 lenses.
I think they could follow Leica's example and start re-releasing previous lenses with closer MFD and improved tactile feedback beyond the rangefinder range.
p.2 #13 · Cosina Voigtländer announced discontinuation of 11 VM / LTM lenses
Fred Miranda wrote:
This may be because the 35mm and 50mm lenses sell the most. They are also the most usable focal lengths with the M framelines. We have 28mm and 75mm framelines, but some folks have issues with the 28mm, and the 75mm is okay but a bit narrow.
I believe Cosina should create a 21mm f/2.8 Color-Skopar with performance similar to their 28mm lens. I also think they could easily bring back a compact 90mm f/3.5 APO-Lanthar with exceptional performance. The ultra-wide lenses could benefit from an updated optical design, although I still find them excellent. Currently, I own the 12mm and 15mm f/4.5 lenses.
I think they could follow Leica's example and start re-releasing previous lenses with closer MFD and improved tactile feedback beyond the rangefinder range....Show more →
True - I opted for the CV 75/1.5 a couple of years ago and use it now more often than my 50 mm M-lenses! The frame window for 75 mm is narrower - but the biggest error I experienced making is actually not the size of this frame window but mistakenly using the 50 mm frame lines instead since the viewfinder combines 50 and 75 mm frame lines! I cropped unwillingly a couple of otherwise nicely framed images to the longer field of view. I believe the CV 75/1.5 is one of the best in Cosina's M-lens line but severely overlooked due to its less common focal length and the fact that many users focus automatically on 50 mm focal length instead and opt for something like the CV 50/1.2 M-lens. IMO I am getting a similar depth of field effect with the CV 75/1.5 for a lower price with a bit more tele crop useful for portraits.
p.2 #14 · Cosina Voigtländer announced discontinuation of 11 VM / LTM lenses
Fred Miranda wrote:
It would be great if Cosina took a break from the 35mm and 50mm focal lengths and focused on something different, like new versions of the 12mm, 15mm, or 21mm, or even made a 90mm APO-Lanthar. That said, I wouldn't mind if they also released a compact 35mm f/3.5 APO-Lanthar.
IMO the biggest current gap in the VM lineup is at 24/25mm. Now that we finally have three 28s to choose from, perhaps Cosina will address 24mm? But 24mm is also an odd focal length for M, lacking frame lines in the OVF. It also seems Leica might feel similarly given that their 24mm M options may or may not be discontinued.
Fred: what is the appeal of a 21/2.8 when there's already the 21/3.5, or a 90/3.5 compared to the existing 90/2.8? Is it that neither of the existing lenses are absolute top-shelf performers in the Voigtlander lineup...?
p.2 #15 · Cosina Voigtländer announced discontinuation of 11 VM / LTM lenses
rscheffler wrote:
Fred: what is the appeal of a 21/2.8 when there's already the 21/3.5, or a 90/3.5 compared to the existing 90/2.8? Is it that neither of the existing lenses are absolute top-shelf performers in the Voigtlander lineup...?
I would love to see a Voigtlander 21mm Color-Skopar that matches or surpasses the performance of the Leica 21 SEM. The current 21mm f/3.5 is a very good lens, but it doesn't quite match the Leica 21mm f/3.4 SEM because of a noticeable drop in resolution off-axis, starting from the mid-field.
p.2 #16 · Cosina Voigtländer announced discontinuation of 11 VM / LTM lenses
I take this as a positive as old product lines will give way to newer ones since there will always be limit to assemblage space. Their production pipeline is fast and varied which gives us customers newer products to be excited about. Perhaps new f1.2 lines in the works?. Wasn't there 3 iterations of the 35mm f1.2 and lens mount variants?
Jul 20, 2024 at 06:06 PM
Steve Spencer Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
p.2 #17 · Cosina Voigtländer announced discontinuation of 11 VM / LTM lenses
Juha Kannisto wrote:
This announcement seems to have come already yesterday but I just noticed it today:
The following lenses were announced as discontinued:
【VM mount lenses】
COLOR-SKOPAR Vintage Line 21mm F3.5 Aspherical Type I
ULTRON Vintage Line 28mm F2 Aspherical Type I
NOKTON 35mm F1.2 Aspherical Ⅲ
ULTRON Vintage Line 35mm F2 Aspherical Type I
NOKTON 40mm F1.2 Aspherical
NOKTON 50mm F1.2 Aspherical
HELIAR Vintage Line 50mm F3.5
【LTM（L39) mount lenses】
HELIAR 40mm F2.8 Silver
HELIAR 40mm F2.8 L Black paint
COLOR-SKOPAR 28mm F2.8 Aspherical Silver
COLOR-SKOPAR 28mm F2.8 Aspherical Black paint
I'm surprised that they discontinued the trio of the fast f1.2 lenses in VM at this time. Some discontinuations are just reduction of available types and certain main types will remain in production....Show more →
With the VM lenses stopping production of the Type 1 focus stick lenses makes sense to me. Perhaps they didn't sell well and it adds a lot of complexity to the line up. Focus tab version are still available so not a huge loss. Notice the new 50 f/3.5 APO Type one is not a focus stick lens, so it allow Type 1 vs Type 2 lenses to be more different as well. Speaking of the new 50 f/3.5 APO Type 1 & 2 given that lens is coming out is also is not surprising they are discontinuing the Helier 50 f/3.5. For VM lenses that leaves just the f/1.2 lenses.
For the 50 f/1.2 I love that lens but they do have a 50 f/1.0, a 50 f/1.5, a 50 f/2.0 APO, a 50 f/2.2, and the 50 f/3.5 APO Type 1 & 2. That is a lot of 50mm lenses, so I can see how discontinuing the 50 f/1.2 makes sense.
For the 35 f/1.2 III there is a similar story with a 35 f/1.4 classic, a 35 f/1.5, a 35 f/2, a 35 f/2 APO, and a 35 f/2.5, again that is 5 35mm lens and although I like the 35 f/1.2 III, it is awfully big on a Leica camera.
That leaves us with the 40 f/1.2 which doesn't have frame lines on a Leica M. Again it is fairly big and isn't that easy to use given the lack of frame lines so again I can see how it was discontinued.
I wonder what Voigtlander has up their sleeve, however. I think there is an opportunity to develop a better corrected yet still small 35 f/1.4 and 50 f/1.4. These might even be APO Lanthars if we are lucky, and if not at least they could have several APD elements and be designed to not only have shorter MFDs (with floating elements) but also a lot less CA. These could compete well against the current 35 and 50 lux Asphericals. I think such lenses would be popular, as they seem to be for the Leica lenses, and they could command a price similar to the 50 f/1.0. Just a thought, but clearing out the f/1.2 makes a great opportunity for such lenses. Just as the have the 35 f/2 ultron and the 35 f/2 APO, and the 50 f/2.2 and the 50 f/2 APO, I think there may be room for a less corrected, cheaper, and smaller 35 f/1.5 and a slightly larger and very well corrected 35 f/1.4, and much the same for the 50 f/1.5 and a slightly larger and very well corrected 50 f/1.4. Probably won't happen, but you never know with Cosina and their Voigtlander line.
p.2 #18 · Cosina Voigtländer announced discontinuation of 11 VM / LTM lenses
Some time back I obtained a publication with the full records of Carl Zeiss lenses. It was the best assembly of lens production runs metadata (when and how many), to their knowledge. A great resource, and one of the clear findings was the overwhelming percentage of lenses sold for each range, of 35mm and 50mm lenses. Together, they accounted for maybe 35-40% of all prime lenses produced.
But Cosina have taken this well known demand for 35mm and 50mm lenses to almost a pathological level. Their aiming scope needs readjustment towards shorter focal lengths, as you say. I'd really like to see Cosina's sales data 2015-2024, by mount, lens id, prodn run count and timing.
'I take this as a positive'. I think we all do, frustrating as it often is. How long does it take Cosina between the decision to make a new lens to it being released? They must be world leaders in that metric. Their productivity is astounding.
p.2 #19 · Cosina Voigtländer announced discontinuation of 11 VM / LTM lenses
Cosina has too much pride to do it, but I would love to see them pull a "LLL" move and just ape some of the classics from yesteryear that we all desire and love. They could do it at an economy of scale we'd all benefit from.
p.2 #20 · Cosina Voigtländer announced discontinuation of 11 VM / LTM lenses
ISO1600 wrote:
Cosina has too much pride to do it, but I would love to see them pull a "LLL" move and just ape some of the classics from yesteryear that we all desire and love. They could do it at an economy of scale we'd all benefit from.
In the past, Cosina often released classic designs that were not exact clones but very similar optically. Here are a few I've tested:
- Voigtlander 50/1.1 Nokton, similar to the Leica 50/1 Noctilux
- Voigtlander 35/1.4 Nokton, similar to the Leica 35/1.4 Summilux
- Voigtlander 21/4 Color-Skopar, similar to the Zeiss 21/4.5 ZM Biogon
Nowadays, they have their own unique and outstanding designs.
And Leica would share this info with Cosina??