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Official Canon EOS R1 Images and Specifications

Chimping
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p.4 #1 · p.4 #1 · Official Canon EOS R1 Images and Specifications

whumber wrote:
I would first ask how did they measure readout speed.

They didn't. If JMan is getting his information from the Petapixel video, Chris is only estimating it's around 1/300. If the flash sync speed is 1/400 using electronic shutter, then the actual read speed of the sensor will be even faster than that.

Jul 17, 2024 at 12:25 PM

Jman13
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p.4 #2 · p.4 #2 · Official Canon EOS R1 Images and Specifications

Well, not sure. The Digital Picture measured it at 2.7ms, which is 1/370s, so faster than Petapixel, but still not fast enough to flash sync at 1/400s. If it's actually faster than that, then that's pretty cool. Still, it's bizarre that Canon itself can't even get the story straight.

Looking further, Digital Picture also says that yes, it can sync in flash mode, but sync speed is the same as EFCS at 1/320s.

Edited on Jul 17, 2024 at 12:27 PM · View previous versions

Jul 17, 2024 at 12:25 PM

netexpress
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p.4 #3 · p.4 #3 · Official Canon EOS R1 Images and Specifications

Jman13 wrote:
Well something is off, since Canon Europe and Canon USA have significantly different specifications listed. But again, I don't see how it could sync at 1/400s in electronic shutter mode when the sensor can't read that fast.

I wonder if an R1 final production R1 even exists!

Jul 17, 2024 at 12:26 PM

AmbientMike
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p.4 #4 · p.4 #4 · Official Canon EOS R1 Images and Specifications

Jman13 wrote:
Sure. And my 1981 Mamiya C330f can sync at 1/1000s. What's your point?

Well, you were going on about synch speeds. I saw the 1/250 on the 20D, thought some of the newer bodies couldn't do that. 20D: clearly superior flash synch over Z8!!!

These older bodies have advantages

It's not like there's a lot of value in staying OT in this thread, mostly complaining about the R1. Debating readout speed not real fun imo.

Edited on Jul 17, 2024 at 12:32 PM · View previous versions

Jul 17, 2024 at 12:29 PM

Jman13
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p.4 #5 · p.4 #5 · Official Canon EOS R1 Images and Specifications

AmbientMike wrote:
Well, you were going on about synch speeds. I saw the 1/250 on the 20D, thought some of the newer bodies couldn't do that.

It's not like there's a lot of value in staying OT in this thread, mostly complaining about the R1

I would say that the extra 3.25 stops of dynamic range that newer bodies have would easily make up for the 1/3 stop loss in flash sync speed...if you have to overexpose by 1/3 stop, it's pretty darn easy to recover that in post vs a 20D file. Not sure that's actually an advantage. Especially since the Z8 has a native ISO 64 vs ISO 100 on the 20D, so in terms of ambient exposure there's actually no advantage even by the numbers.

Edited on Jul 17, 2024 at 12:33 PM · View previous versions

Jul 17, 2024 at 12:31 PM

whumber
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p.4 #6 · p.4 #6 · Official Canon EOS R1 Images and Specifications

Jman13 wrote:
Well, not sure. The Digital Picture measured it at 2.7ms, which is 1/370s, so faster than Petapixel, but still not fast enough to flash sync at 1/400s. If it's actually faster than that, then that's pretty cool. Still, it's bizarre that Canon itself can't even get the story straight.

Looking further, Digital Picture also says that yes, it can sync in flash mode, but sync speed is the same as EFCS at 1/320s.

We may have to wait until snapsy gets his hands on one to get a real answer.

Jul 17, 2024 at 12:32 PM

AmbientMike
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p.4 #7 · p.4 #7 · Official Canon EOS R1 Images and Specifications

Jman13 wrote:
I would say that the extra 3.25 stops of dynamic range that newer bodies have would easily make up for the 1/3 stop loss in flash sync speed...if you have to overexpose by 1/3 stop, it's pretty darn easy to recover that in post vs a 20D file. Not sure that's actually an advantage.

It's kinda hard to blow out 20D files if you have the camera set up right. Pretty suspicious it has poor DR, might just be the software.

But if you're saying R1 synch stinks, hey, 20D beats the Z8 so I guess it stinks?

Jul 17, 2024 at 12:33 PM

Chimping
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p.4 #8 · p.4 #8 · Official Canon EOS R1 Images and Specifications

Canon UK is reporting a 1/400 flash sync speed with electronic shutter, too. Or, 1/500 flash sync speed if the R1 is in crop mode.

Based on these specs, the R1 will definitely have a sensor read speed greater than 1/400.

Jul 17, 2024 at 12:43 PM

Jman13
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p.4 #9 · p.4 #9 · Official Canon EOS R1 Images and Specifications

AmbientMike wrote:
It's kinda hard to blow out 20D files if you have the camera set up right. Pretty suspicious it has poor DR, might just be the software.

But if you're saying R1 synch stinks, hey, 20D beats the Z8 so I guess it stinks?

No one ever said the R1 sync stinks. It's just up in the air as to what it is. Even the EFCS listed sync of 1/320s is outstanding. Of course, if you need high sync speed because you do a lot of outdoor flash, and you're ok with 24MP, the Sony A9 III is what you should be using. I don't think honestly it will come up much with this body for most shooters.

Also, it's not suspicious at all that the 20D's DR stinks. It's a 20 year old APS-C sensor...of course it's nowhere even close to what a modern sensor can achieve.

Jul 17, 2024 at 12:45 PM

AmbientMike
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p.4 #10 · p.4 #10 · Official Canon EOS R1 Images and Specifications

Well, if you look at Bill Claff, the 6D can be brought up to modern DR , it's marked ML, so presumably Magic Lantern. And the 20D just isn't blowing stuff out too easily , so maybe it has more DR available as well, if you do it right

Jul 17, 2024 at 12:49 PM

AmbientMike
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p.4 #11 · p.4 #11 · Official Canon EOS R1 Images and Specifications

The R1 probably shoots just fine. But if you are going to maintain a laser like focus on one spec, like DR, or a few, like generally happens on here, then you might as well say 20D beats Z8 since better synch speed,

Why oh why can't Nikon do anything right, my old body has a higher flash synch ?!? Oh the horror

Jul 17, 2024 at 12:54 PM

Jman13
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p.4 #12 · p.4 #12 · Official Canon EOS R1 Images and Specifications

AmbientMike wrote:
Well, if you look at Bill Claff, the 6D can be brought up to modern DR , it's marked ML, so presumably Magic Lantern. And the 20D just isn't blowing stuff out too easily , so maybe it has more DR available as well, if you do it right

The Magic Lantern hack basically reprograms the sensor to do things that it wasn't originally designed for, and basically creates an HDR image in-camera, by doing one line at ISO 100 and the next line at whatever the set ISO is. This is a clever technique, but it doesn't really do anything to the sensor itself beyond reading it differently (and i'm sure it has a detriment to captured detail). But a hacked firmware to enable simultaneous HDR capture is something that theoretically could be done on any sensor. The 20D has a dynamic range of 8 stops at base ISO. It is atrocious by modern standards. I don't know why you argue these ridiculous tangents..especially since your experience with modern digital cameras is essentially nil.

Jul 17, 2024 at 12:58 PM

Jman13
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p.4 #13 · p.4 #13 · Official Canon EOS R1 Images and Specifications

AmbientMike wrote:
The R1 probably shoots just fine. But if you are going to maintain a laser like focus on one spec, like DR, or a few, like generally happens on here, then you might as well say 20D beats Z8 since better synch speed,

Why oh why can't Nikon do anything right, my old body has a higher flash synch ?!? Oh the horror

My god you've lost the plot.

Jul 17, 2024 at 12:58 PM

whumber
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p.4 #14 · p.4 #14 · Official Canon EOS R1 Images and Specifications

Jman13 wrote:
The Magic Lantern hack basically reprograms the sensor to do things that it wasn't originally designed for, and basically creates an HDR image in-camera, by doing one line at ISO 100 and the next line at whatever the set ISO is. This is a clever technique, but it doesn't really do anything to the sensor itself beyond reading it differently (and i'm sure it has a detriment to captured detail). But a hacked firmware to enable simultaneous HDR capture is something that theoretically could be done on any sensor. The 20D has a dynamic range of 8 stops at base...Show more →

There was also the change for the 5D3, not sure it was ever extended to other models, that opened up the non-linear highlight region in the sensor to create a usable ISO 64 with extended DR. I'm pretty sure that Panasonic actually does something similar with their extended ISO values in the current bodies.

Jul 17, 2024 at 01:09 PM

snapsy
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p.4 #15 · p.4 #15 · Official Canon EOS R1 Images and Specifications

whumber wrote:
There was also the change for the 5D3, not sure it was ever extended to other models, that opened up the non-linear highlight region in the sensor to create a usable ISO 64 with extended DR. I'm pretty sure that Panasonic actually does something similar with their extended ISO values in the current bodies.

The GH6/GH7/G9 II have dual gain ISO output, ie reading out the same exposure at two different gain levels and blending the resulting exposures to improve DR. Basically what Jman is describing in ML but without the limitation of every-other line.

Jul 17, 2024 at 01:12 PM

RoamingScott
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p.4 #16 · p.4 #16 · Official Canon EOS R1 Images and Specifications

This is pretty balanced for a guy that needs to talk about 20 year old DSLRs in threads about cameras he’s never owned.

Jman13 wrote:
My god you've lost the plot.

Jul 17, 2024 at 01:13 PM

whumber
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p.4 #17 · p.4 #17 · Official Canon EOS R1 Images and Specifications

snapsy wrote:
The GH6/GH7/G9 II have dual gain ISO output, ie reading out the same exposure at two different gain levels and blending the resulting exposures to improve DR. Basically what Jman is describing in ML but without the limitation of every-other line.

I'm referring to the extended Low ISO values. Unlike most other brands DR actually increases, albeit slightly, in the extended ISO values but the highlight colors can get a bit wacky which is what makes me think they're utilizing the non-linear response portion of the sensor.

Jul 17, 2024 at 01:14 PM

johnvanr
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p.4 #18 · p.4 #18 · Official Canon EOS R1 Images and Specifications

I don’t get the references on how the R1 isn’t a flagship, as if it’s somewhere written in stone that the “flagship” has to have the highest resolution. In the film days, all 35mm cameras had the same resolution. The flagship was the sturdy, more capable camera meant for pros. Even in the DSLR days, Canon had the 5Ds/r with 50mp while the 1DX was around 20mp.

Jul 17, 2024 at 01:29 PM

AmbientMike
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p.4 #19 · p.4 #19 · Official Canon EOS R1 Images and Specifications

Jman13 wrote:
The Magic Lantern hack basically reprograms the sensor to do things that it wasn't originally designed for, and basically creates an HDR image in-camera, by doing one line at ISO 100 and the next line at whatever the set ISO is. This is a clever technique, but it doesn't really do anything to the sensor itself beyond reading it differently (and i'm sure it has a detriment to captured detail). But a hacked firmware to enable simultaneous HDR capture is something that theoretically could be done on any sensor. The 20D has a dynamic range of 8 stops at base...Show more →

How is this technique different or better/worse, than the Sony star eater technique?

What is your experience with the 20D? I have actually used it, know how, and doubt the DR numbers

Edited on Jul 17, 2024 at 01:40 PM · View previous versions

Jul 17, 2024 at 01:37 PM

AmbientMike
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p.4 #20 · p.4 #20 · Official Canon EOS R1 Images and Specifications

Jman13 wrote:
My god you've lost the plot.

You have. But pardon me for not staying on topic and trashing a camera over some stupid spec.

Jul 17, 2024 at 01:39 PM

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