p.1 #1 · Leica M and SL - Have my cake and eat it too?
I've been a long time Sony E and Leica M shooter, but I no longer needs the speed or AF that comes with the Sony cameras. The SL series seems like a great way to maximize my Leica M investment. I feel like I've settled on the M10M for the rangefinder experience and either the SL2-s or the SL3. Here's my current lens lineup and I'm curious what lens selections you would make if/when using the two systems.
I've traditionally liked shooting 28 but tend not too shoot much wider than that. In the 28 range the M Summilux is interesting but pretty spendy the Voigtlander looks like a very nice lens at a reasonable price, but am I overlooking the 28mm SL APO? Hard to find photos info on it and what I've seen is fine but maybe not as special as the 50 APO?
In the 35mm range there's quite a a few lenses I like. The 35 f1.4 steel rim reissue has a very classic look that I love and think would look great on the M10M sensor. The 35 f1.4 pre FLE is also a compelling lens to me that has a beautiful draw (focus shift isn't an issue as I shoot open or stopped down to 5.6 or more usually)
Is there anything in the 28-35 range for the SL that you love? Would be nice to have something with AF in that focal range with AF? Any M lenses in particular that you think work well with both systems?
p.1 #2 · Leica M and SL - Have my cake and eat it too?
selahsean, that M10M sensor is wicked sharp and to have a complete selection of lens renderings you may want to also have one lens that can measure up to that performance level. For me it's the Voigtlander 50/2 APO-Lanthar. The Leica-M APO Summicron 50mm would also do the trick.
Regarding your question about M lenses than work well on both systems Fred Miranda has past posts on this topic that are very valuable. My 35/1.4 FLE I works very well with both my M10-R & M and SL2. I recall that Fred found the Voigtlander 50/2 APO-Lanthar & 50mm f1.4 Summilux Asph v1 didn't perform well on the SL2. Another frequent poster here did find the Voigtlander Lanthar worked well on his SL2-S.
p.1 #3 · Leica M and SL - Have my cake and eat it too?
I've had my M10-P for a couple of years paired with a CV 35mm F1.5, goes with me on every business and family vacations trip.
I just added the SL3 and find it a joy to use, AF is fantastic. Using sigma lenses, 35mm f1.4 Art and 50mm f1.2 Art for work.
In the past, I've had the SL 701 and always used that body with a Voigtlander 40mm f1.2 with beautiful results.
The SL bodies have a great evf so shooting a wide range of M lenses should be just fine, up to you on your preference. I've shot 75mm M glass, 50mm, and 40mm and have enjoyed all.
p.1 #6 · Leica M and SL - Have my cake and eat it too?
You don’t say what Sony cameras you’re coming from. But anyway.
The SL3 is 130g heavier than the A7R5 and the SL2 is ~200g heavier. But both are better built. AFS is similar although the SL3 is *slightly* more confident. The balance of the SL3 is much better as the weight has moved closer to the lens mount. The SL2 is Z8 sized while the SL3 is in between the Z8 and A7R5/A1. I think the SL3 is just right for the lenses that you strap to it. Some think it’s too big still. A few have said it’s too small. To choose you need to pick them up, I suppose. The SL2 buttons are closer to your M10M choice but I prefer where the SL3 buttons are (more like the Q3)
The SL3 sensor seems to be a tweaked version of the A7R5 sensor. But somehow Leica have managed to squeeze a bit more out of it. The *usable* DR is the best I’ve seen in a colour small format sensor. The SL2 responds well to Lightroom or DXO NR but it’s not as good as the SL3 sensor. If you’re chasing IQ then the SL3 is an easy choice.
The SL3 firmware is still basically a beta release. I’ve had no issues but if you accidentally switch the camera off you can lose images and get corrupt files. It’s a daft thing that needs to be fixed. You can’t tell if the camera is asleep or off because the new button tries to solve a problem that didn’t exist. The sensor is slow readout, like the A7R5, M11, A7CR, etc. So electronic shutter use is more limited. There’s no high res shot, etc. These things will come but just to be aware. Also the Af will need tweaking.
Lots of great lenses to choose from in the SL mount in any standard focal length. I’m not a 35mm shooter, mostly. I have the cruurent 35 Summilux and a MATE. That does me. So I won’t comment on the 35 SL APO except to say everybody who has one says it’s the most perfect lens they’ve used. I have plenty of 28’s, including the SL APO. I also have the 21, 50 and 90 plus a bunch of other SL primes.
The 28 APO is sensational. I see zero compromises compared to the 50. It is, by some margin, the best 28 I own (current 28 Summicron M ASPH, 28 Ultron, M 28 Summicron ASPH v1 etc.) If you don’t mind the weight I highly recommend it. I’ve also used my M Summicron on the SL. But not really tried the Ultron, as it wasn’t recommended by Fred, who tested it. I probably should see how it does on the SL3.
If you’re looking for an *ocassional* wide in the SL system I can recommend the 20mm Sigma DGDN. Cheap, light, tiny and sharp. My APO 21 is better, obviously but sometimes I just don’t want to carry it. I also have the DGDN 24, 50 and 90 for small, casual use. Mostly I’ve replaced the DGDN 50 with the excellent SL Summicron 50 (non APO) as my light carry as it’s weather sealed. The DGDN’s are not.
One other thing. You could consider a Q3 as your 28mm option. Not as perfect as the APO but a joy to use.
p.1 #7 · Leica M and SL - Have my cake and eat it too?
goodbokeh wrote:
selahsean, that M10M sensor is wicked sharp and to have a complete selection of lens renderings you may want to also have one lens that can measure up to that performance level. For me it's the Voigtlander 50/2 APO-Lanthar. The Leica-M APO Summicron 50mm would also do the trick.
Regarding your question about M lenses than work well on both systems Fred Miranda has past posts on this topic that are very valuable. My 35/1.4 FLE I works very well with both my M10-R & M and SL2. I recall that Fred found the Voigtlander 50/2 APO-Lanthar & 50mm f1.4 Summilux Asph v1 didn't perform well on the SL2. Another frequent poster here did find the Voigtlander Lanthar worked well on his SL2-S. ...Show more →
The Voigtlander 50 APO is interesting to me. I wonder if it might be too clinical for me. I tend to favor character lenses particularly for M mount, but definitely worth thinking about. Seems like too sharp for people do you like it for landscape/still life stuff? The M mount APO is too pricey for me...
p.1 #8 · Leica M and SL - Have my cake and eat it too?
selahsean wrote:
The Voigtlander 50 APO is interesting to me. I wonder if it might be too clinical for me. I tend to favor character lenses particularly for M mount, but definitely worth thinking about. Seems like too sharp for people do you like it for landscape/still life stuff? The M mount APO is too pricey for me...
Then you definitely don’t want any of the SL APO’s either. They’re even more than the M versions (I have the M 50APO). Maybe switch ou the 50 APO for no APO. It’s still very sharp though. Or the SIgma f1.2.
p.1 #9 · Leica M and SL - Have my cake and eat it too?
flash wrote:
You don’t say what Sony cameras you’re coming from. But anyway.
The SL3 is 130g heavier than the A7R5 and the SL2 is ~200g heavier. But both are better built. AFS is similar although the SL3 is *slightly* more confident. The balance of the SL3 is much better as the weight has moved closer to the lens mount. The SL2 is Z8 sized while the SL3 is in between the Z8 and A7R5/A1. I think the SL3 is just right for the lenses that you strap to it. Some think it’s too big still. A few have said it’s too small. To choose you need to pick them up, I suppose. The SL2 buttons are closer to your M10M choice but I prefer where the SL3 buttons are (more like the Q3)
The SL3 sensor seems to be a tweaked version of the A7R5 sensor. But somehow Leica have managed to squeeze a bit more out of it. The *usable* DR is the best I’ve seen in a colour small format sensor. The SL2 responds well to Lightroom or DXO NR but it’s not as good as the SL3 sensor. If you’re chasing IQ then the SL3 is an easy choice.
The SL3 firmware is still basically a beta release. I’ve had no issues but if you accidentally switch the camera off you can lose images and get corrupt files. It’s a daft thing that needs to be fixed. You can’t tell if the camera is asleep or off because the new button tries to solve a problem that didn’t exist. The sensor is slow readout, like the A7R5, M11, A7CR, etc. So electronic shutter use is more limited. There’s no high res shot, etc. These things will come but just to be aware. Also the Af will need tweaking.
Lots of great lenses to choose from in the SL mount in any standard focal length. I’m not a 35mm shooter, mostly. I have the cruurent 35 Summilux and a MATE. That does me. So I won’t comment on the 35 SL APO except to say everybody who has one says it’s the most perfect lens they’ve used. I have plenty of 28’s, including the SL APO. I also have the 21, 50 and 90 plus a bunch of other SL primes.
The 28 APO is sensational. I see zero compromises compared to the 50. It is, by some margin, the best 28 I own (current 28 Summicron M ASPH, 28 Ultron, M 28 Summicron ASPH v1 etc.) If you don’t mind the weight I highly recommend it. I’ve also used my M Summicron on the SL. But not really tried the Ultron, as it wasn’t recommended by Fred, who tested it. I probably should see how it does on the SL3.
If you’re looking for an *ocassional* wide in the SL system I can recommend the 20mm Sigma DGDN. Cheap, light, tiny and sharp. My APO 21 is better, obviously but sometimes I just don’t want to carry it. I also have the DGDN 24, 50 and 90 for small, casual use. Mostly I’ve replaced the DGDN 50 with the excellent SL Summicron 50 (non APO) as my light carry as it’s weather sealed. The DGDN’s are not.
One other thing. You could consider a Q3 as your 28mm option. Not as perfect as the APO but a joy to use.
Lots of great stuff here! I've shot R series Sony up to the a7RV which I just sold. I actually had an SL2-s previously but it was hard to justify that with the Sony a7riv I had at the time (and Leica hadn't released the wide angle APO's yet). So I'm familiar with the weight size difference and it wasn't that problematic for me.
Your note about the 28 APO is great to read. I've struggled in the past with having both a 28 and 35 as they're too similar in field of view for me. 28 + 50 has been my go to.
I absolutely love my Ricoh GRIII as an everyday carry 28 and as cool as the Q series is the GRIII is glued to me. To me the SL series will be for more focused/patient work with people and color. The M10M will give me something completely different in user experience and output and then the GRIII is great when I want something better than my phone and is small/light to carry.
I feel like the 28 APO and 50 APO would be a great combo and then I could plug in a few M mount lenses when I need a more classic look (Rigid, 75 Summilux). Then maybe grab a 35mm M mount that works well on both systems.
p.1 #10 · Leica M and SL - Have my cake and eat it too?
flash wrote:
Then you definitely don’t want any of the SL APO’s either. They’re even more than the M versions (I have the M 50APO). Maybe switch ou the 50 APO for no APO. It’s still very sharp though. Or the SIgma f1.2.
Gordon
Hmm the images I've seen off the 50mm APO SL are very pleasing to me. For me it's all about the transition from in focus to out of focus areas. It's obviously sharp with great color rendition as well but those transition areas are sooo good. Maybe I need to look at more images of the Voigtlander.
p.1 #11 · Leica M and SL - Have my cake and eat it too?
selahsean wrote:
Hmm the images I've seen off the 50mm APO SL are very pleasing to me. For me it's all about the transition from in focus to out of focus areas. It's obviously sharp with great color rendition as well but those transition areas are sooo good. Maybe I need to look at more images of the Voigtlander.
I love the APO SL files. Love them. I think they balance epic sharpness and stunning fall off. The background blur isn’t the prettiest though. I don’t think it’s a *classic* look. The APO’s have nearly no optical flaws. Stop down for DoF. That’s it.
I have said before I think every photographer deserves to at least try an APO Summicron. And that it’s hard to stop at one. It was more that they don’t really line up with what you’re adapting, look wise. They’re closer to the APO M and CV’s lenses than anything you listed. Really your opinion is the only one that matters.
