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Archive 2024 · Sony A1 & 200-600mm against OM-1 II M.Zuiko & 300mm

  
 
ruthenium
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p.1 #1 · Sony A1 & 200-600mm against OM-1 II M.Zuiko & 300mm


I believe this post might be of interest to FF and MFT photographers who use long telephoto lenses.
I compared the two camera systems in my kit: Sony A1 with the 200-600mm F5.6-6.3 G lens against OM-1 II with the Olympus M.Zuiko ED 300mm F4.0 IS PRO lens (the 200-600mm lens is currently priced at US$1,898. The M.Zuiko 300mm is more expensive at US$ 2,800 that reflects the PRO designation of the lens).

Some observations.
1) Size and weight: Upload 1 (admittedly an ugly picture, taken with my phone) illustrates the differences in size of the Sony and OM/Olympus systems. Understandably, the latter is more compact. The 300mm lens is comparable in size to the Sony 70-200 F2.8 GM II lens. Note that the hood of the 300 mm lens is retractable; it slides back and forth (I find this convenient in use).
The A1 & 200-600 system weighs 3080 g with the hood attached.
The OM-1 II & 300 system weighs 1916 g.
I weighed both systems on a balance accurate to +/- 1g, with the tripod leg removed from the 200-600; the tripod leg&collar were removed from the 300mm lens as well. I believe that the 300mm lens would rarely need a tripod considering that the OM-1 II has an excellent IS and the lens is not too heavy.
2) Focal length: the Olympus M.Zuiko ED 300mm lens is regarded as equivalent to a 600mm FF lens. The 200-600 has the FL of 600mm at the long end, when focussed to infinity. At shorter distances, the lens is wider. For example, it has been noted that when the focus distance is 4.5 to 7.5 m, the FL is in the 520 – 530mm range at the longest. (https://arihazeghiphotography.com/blog/sony-fe-200-600mm-f-5-6-6-3-g-oss-review/).
Uploads 2 and 3 demonstrate that the 200-600 is wider at 600mm compared to the M.Zuiko 300 mm lens. From the focus distance of 5.1 m and the horizontal span of the area captured by the 200-600mm lens of 33 cm (in upload 3), I estimated the FL of 550mm.
3) Lens “speed”: I observed a consistent difference of one to one and a third stops between the Sony and OM/Olympus systems, the 200-600 being the slower one (yes, you read this correctly). When used wide-open, the shutter speeds are systematically slower for the Sony lens, at the same ISO and under equivalent light (no external light in the basement of my home at night). Here are the data I recorded under the light I have in the basement (all measurements were done in one evening, from the same focusing distance; there has been no change in the shooting conditions).
300mm, SS (ISO): 1/80 (200), 1/200 (500), 1/400 (1000), 1/640 (1600), 1/1250 (3200), 1/2500 (6400), 1/5000 (12800).
200-600mm at 600 mm, SS (ISO): 1/30 (200), 1/80 (500), 1/160 (1000), 1/250 (1600), 1/500 (3200), 1/1000 (6400), 1/2000 (12800).
4) Image quality: this can be assessed qualitatively by looking at the crops from the full photos at ISO 200, 500, 1000, 1600, 3200, 6400, and 12800. All the full-sized photos were framed exactly as Uploads 2 and 3 (that is, only ISO changed during the shooting). The crops are given in 12 uploads (from Upload 4 to 11 in this post, and 1 to 6 in the next one). All raw files were processed in DxO PL7 by applying the “DxO Standard” profile with added DeepPRIME XD denoising using the default (auto) settings; the “Microcontrast” was set to 10. When processing raw files from OM-1 II, the “Lens Softness Correction” was reduced from the default +1 to 0 to avoid an apparent over-sharpening.
The WB had been decided by the cameras; it was not changed in post.
When comparing the IQ, it is worth noting that the OM-1 II images have 20MP; thus, the OM-1 II pictures tend to appear “crispier.”
I don’t want to impose my own judgement and should let the readers of this post to decide which images they like better: from the A1 at 600mm or from the OM-1 II at 300mm. Just keep in mind the lens speed difference: when shooting the two systems side-by-side, the ISO will be one to one and a third of a stop higher on the A1. For example, when the ISO is at 3200 on the OM-1 II, the A1 will have the ISO most likely at 8000 (at best at 6400).










  OM-1MarkII     OLYMPUS M.300mm F4.0 lens    300mm    f/4.0    1/80s    200 ISO    0.0 EV  






  ILCE-1    FE 200-600mm F5.6-6.3 G OSS lens    600mm    f/6.3    1/30s    200 ISO    0.0 EV  












































Jun 08, 2024 at 06:48 PM
ruthenium
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p.1 #2 · Sony A1 & 200-600mm against OM-1 II M.Zuiko & 300mm


These are crops from the photos taken at ISO 3200, 6400, and 12800.
































Jun 08, 2024 at 06:50 PM
ruthenium
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p.1 #3 · Sony A1 & 200-600mm against OM-1 II M.Zuiko & 300mm


This final comparison is of photos of my pet bird (the focus was on the eye of the bird), taken from the distance of 6.2 m.
One is from OM-1 II & 300mm at F4 and ISO 3200.
The other is from A1 & 200-600 at 600mm F6.3 and ISO 8000 (to achieve the matching SS).
These are full-sized 20 and 50MP images, respectively.
Feel free to upload the jpegs for a closer inspection.
Both images were processed using the same settings in DxO PL7, including the WB that was set to Temp = 5200 ( Tint = 10).
The slight difference in colors seem to be due to differences in the default color profiles for the two cameras in DxO PL7.




  OM-1MarkII     OLYMPUS M.300mm F4.0 lens    300mm    f/4.0    1/1250s    3200 ISO    0.0 EV  






  ILCE-1    FE 200-600mm F5.6-6.3 G OSS lens    600mm    f/6.3    1/1250s    8000 ISO    0.0 EV  




Jun 08, 2024 at 07:00 PM
liggy
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p.1 #4 · Sony A1 & 200-600mm against OM-1 II M.Zuiko & 300mm


Interested for sure in your results.

I haven’t used the OM1 enough to be comfortable with it.

Been considering the 300 Oly lens but I’m not really sold on m4/3 yet as anything more than a kayaking/ hiking small kit.






Jun 08, 2024 at 07:20 PM
mogul
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p.1 #5 · Sony A1 & 200-600mm against OM-1 II M.Zuiko & 300mm


You may want to test the 70/350 with the A1, still more sensor than 4/3.


Jun 08, 2024 at 07:39 PM
ruthenium
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p.1 #6 · Sony A1 & 200-600mm against OM-1 II M.Zuiko & 300mm


liggy wrote:
Interested for sure in your results.

I haven’t used the OM1 enough to be comfortable with it.

Been considering the 300 Oly lens but I’m not really sold on m4/3 yet as anything more than a kayaking/ hiking small kit.



I believe I know how you feel. I have conflicting feelings myself.
When thinking about my (admittedly very limited) experience with the OM-1 II and the kit of four lenses (17mm F1.2, 12-40 F2.8 II, 40-150 F2.8, and 300 F4), I can say I very much like the camera itself and the experience of shooting at the longer FLs with the 40-150 and 300 mm lenses. The former is superb at 150 mm (FF 300 mm) and the latter is a sheer joy to use at 300mm (FF 600 mm).
I am thinking of trying macro with the M.Zuiko 90mm f/3.5 (to be added later this summer) that supposedly should work really well with the OM-1.
In the last three years, I very much liked shooting with the A1 & Tamron 35-150mm F2.0-2.8 and can possibly go back to using FF for the wider focal lengths together with the MFT for the longer FLs.
There are some exotic MFT lenses that might be interesting to try, e.g., the Voigtlander Super Nokton 29mm f/0.8 Aspherical Lens.
As a non-pro, enthusiast photographer, I think about MFT as adding a certain new "dimension" to my photography experience - I find this both stimulating and enjoyable.



Jun 08, 2024 at 07:39 PM
greeneggs
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p.1 #7 · Sony A1 & 200-600mm against OM-1 II M.Zuiko & 300mm


I don't think it is imposing your judgement to state your observations. You've probably looked closer at the images than I have. I am a little bit surprised that the 300mm beats the 200-600—to my eye.


Jun 08, 2024 at 11:22 PM
dclark
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p.1 #8 · Sony A1 & 200-600mm against OM-1 II M.Zuiko & 300mm


You should look into the principle of equivalence:
http://www.josephjamesphotography.com/equivalence/light.htm#acknowledgements
https://www.dpreview.com/articles/2666934640/what-is-equivalence-and-why-should-i-care
https://www.dpreview.com/learn/2799100497/equivalence-in-a-nutshell
or better yet:
https://www.spiedigitallibrary.org/journals/Optical-Engineering/volume-57/issue-11/110801/Equivalence-theory-for-cross-format-photographic-image-quality-comparisons/10.1117/1.OE.57.11.110801.pdf



Jun 09, 2024 at 01:20 AM
ruthenium
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p.1 #9 · Sony A1 & 200-600mm against OM-1 II M.Zuiko & 300mm




dclark wrote:
You should look into the principle of equivalence:
http://www.josephjamesphotography.com/equivalence/light.htm#acknowledgements
https://www.dpreview.com/articles/2666934640/what-is-equivalence-and-why-should-i-care
https://www.dpreview.com/learn/2799100497/equivalence-in-a-nutshell
or better yet:
https://www.spiedigitallibrary.org/journals/Optical-Engineering/volume-57/issue-11/110801/Equivalence-theory-for-cross-format-photographic-image-quality-comparisons/10.1117/1.OE.57.11.110801.pdf

Thank you! Yes, I completely forgot that "equivalent ISO settings are related through R squared."



Jun 09, 2024 at 07:43 AM
ggx145
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p.1 #10 · Sony A1 & 200-600mm against OM-1 II M.Zuiko & 300mm


Not surprised that a prime lens at double the price gives better results than a zoom. In real life, I choose the sony setup (even with a "lesser" body) for the flexibility 100% of the time.


Jun 09, 2024 at 07:47 AM
phidippusaudax
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p.1 #11 · Sony A1 & 200-600mm against OM-1 II M.Zuiko & 300mm


ggx145 wrote:
Not surprised that a prime lens at double the price gives better results than a zoom. In real life, I choose the sony setup (even with a "lesser" body) for the flexibility 100% of the time.



And here I am looking at selling my A1 and 200-600 and getting the OM-1 II and 300mm for the weight and dimension reduction!
I did not need this thread right now!



Jun 09, 2024 at 08:36 AM
j4nu
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p.1 #12 · Sony A1 & 200-600mm against OM-1 II M.Zuiko & 300mm


Thanks, these are really interesting!
I was expecting some noise penalty at higher ISO on OM-1, but it seems it's somewhat mitigated by the exposure (difference in ISO) I guess...



Jun 09, 2024 at 08:54 AM
mogul
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p.1 #13 · Sony A1 & 200-600mm against OM-1 II M.Zuiko & 300mm


ISO means nothing as each manufacturers have their own idea of digital ISO.


Jun 09, 2024 at 10:01 AM
ggx145
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p.1 #14 · Sony A1 & 200-600mm against OM-1 II M.Zuiko & 300mm


phidippusaudax wrote:
And here I am looking at selling my A1 and 200-600 and getting the OM-1 II and 300mm for the weight and dimension reduction!
I did not need this thread right now!


I think thats perfectly reasonable! Its very intriguing, but losing the large sensor and the opportunity to zoom out would not be worth it to me in my current situation. Now, the OM-1 II and the 150-400 with the TC, thats a different topic. Thank the gods I can't afford this right now



Jun 09, 2024 at 10:03 AM
liggy
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p.1 #15 · Sony A1 & 200-600mm against OM-1 II M.Zuiko & 300mm


phidippusaudax wrote:
And here I am looking at selling my A1 and 200-600 and getting the OM-1 II and 300mm for the weight and dimension reduction!
I did not need this thread right now!


If I come across a bargain 300 F4 I might add it to my kit but based upon my very limited thus far experience with the OM-1 / 100-400 there is zero chance I would sell the A1.

I realize the 100-400 is not in the same league as the 300 or the 150-400 but 20mp feels limiting.
Cropping is nearly always an option with the A1 or A7RV but if you can’t fill the frame with the OM - not so much IMO.



Jun 09, 2024 at 11:27 AM
ruthenium
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p.1 #16 · Sony A1 & 200-600mm against OM-1 II M.Zuiko & 300mm


greeneggs wrote:
I don't think it is imposing your judgement to state your observations. You've probably looked closer at the images than I have. I am a little bit surprised that the 300mm beats the 200-600—to my eye.


Re "the 300mm beats the 200-600"
Let's do pixel-peeping and have a very very close look at one particular area of the 1000 yen bill that shows minute detail (the denomination of the bill - 1000 - totally invisible to my eye when looking at the paper bill).
In the following upload, the top two crops are from the 300 mm lens (at ISO 200 and 1600).
The bottom two crops are from the 200-600 mm lens at 600 mm, at ISO 200 and 3200.
I see that all minute detail is faithfully reproduced by the 50MP FF camera system.
The same detail is very similarly reproduced by the 20MP MFT camera system, but the former looks better to me. Thus, when pixel-peeping, the FF system "beats" the MFT.
When looking at the full-size photo, the MFT may look better (crispier, as if sharper) but I think this is an illusion caused by the lower megapixel count of the sensor. There is nothing wrong with creating an illusion in photography, of course.
It is a different story when we compare the high-ISO crops. Technically speaking MFT ISO 1600 is equivalent to FF ISO 6400.
Here we compare MFT ISO 1600 with FF ISO 3200. Now the advantage of the FF system is lost.
The two images look very similar (I even feel that the crop from the FF photo looks a tiny bit worse).
Two practical points:
1) Appearances can be misleading and one needs to pixel-peep to see the better IQ of the FF system (at low ISO). Having said this, in my opinion, pixel-peeping is a bad habit.
2) This advantage in IQ is lost at high ISO.







Jun 09, 2024 at 11:40 AM
ruthenium
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p.1 #17 · Sony A1 & 200-600mm against OM-1 II M.Zuiko & 300mm


phidippusaudax wrote:
And here I am looking at selling my A1 and 200-600 and getting the OM-1 II and 300mm for the weight and dimension reduction!
I did not need this thread right now!


I am a hoarder; thus, my 200-600 doesn't need to fear parting with me. However, it should see little use in the near future, while I am infatuated with the new toy - the MFT 300mm F4 lens.
One additional (on top of everything else) reason an enthusiast wild life photographer may like the 300mm lens vs. the Sony 200-600 is the MFD of the former: 1.4 m, when the lens magnification is 0.48 (FF equivalent). That is, one moment, one can shoot a bird or a distant animal and the next moment take a shot of a butterfly or a dragonfly a short distance away.



Jun 09, 2024 at 01:34 PM
tschopp
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p.1 #18 · Sony A1 & 200-600mm against OM-1 II M.Zuiko & 300mm


Thank you for doing these tests. I always find this sort of thing interesting. It feeds into my hobby of photography gear. 🤪

I often start with a comparison based on equivalence, but for practical comparison, based on how the lens will be shot, I think the main item to hold constant in this case is shutter speed. The lens will most likely be shot wide open. So it is fine to shoot both wide open and let the iso be whatever it needs to be.

Next how to compare images at different resolution. I found it is important to make the resolution conversion and then compare the images that are now the same size. Some programs will drop pixels from a high resolution image instead of doing a proper average when displaying a lower resolution image.

For IQ there are two limits and you are typically at one or the other, not some mix of both. There is the low light limit, for this the IQ is limited by photon shot noise and not by the resolution of the system. The winning photo will simply be the one that gathers more light. The other extreme is ample light, in this case the winner is determined by the resolution of the lens and sensor.

I haven’t had a chance to study your images closely, but just some food for thought. I look forward to examining the photos on my desktop monitor.



Jun 09, 2024 at 01:56 PM
ruthenium
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p.1 #19 · Sony A1 & 200-600mm against OM-1 II M.Zuiko & 300mm


liggy wrote:
If I come across a bargain 300 F4 I might add it to my kit but based upon my very limited thus far experience with the OM-1 / 100-400 there is zero chance I would sell the A1.

I realize the 100-400 is not in the same league as the 300 or the 150-400 but 20mp feels limiting.
Cropping is nearly always an option with the A1 or A7RV but if you can’t fill the frame with the OM - not so much IMO.


I agree with you about the importance of filling the frame with a MFT camera. Thus, shooting an MFT system, arguably, requires developing superior compositional skills, whereas a high-megapixel FF camera gives more freedom of liberal cropping and composing in post.

In this thread, I wanted to share some specific observations that are concerned with just the two long telephoto lenses. This should not be interpreted in any more general terms (e.g., MFT vs FF).
There are only two native Sony 600 mm lenses, and those who cannot consider acquiring the prime, would often consider the zoom (I guess). Here, my intention is to bring to the attention of anyone considering adding the Sony 200-600 that they should not overlook the M.Zuiko 300mm F4 lens that has its own advantages. I was not aware of this alternative to the Sony 200-600 myself when I added the lens some two years ago. With my present experience, if I could go back in time, I would have probably added the MFT lens instead.

What remains to be said is that I still like my A1 and there are FF tenses that I like a lot. For one example, I find A1 with the Sony 35mm F1.4 GM a joy to use, whereas the OM-1 II with the M.Zuiko 17mm F1.2 lens I personally find underwhelming in comparison. There are different camera systems (camera&lens) that excel in different ways.



Jun 09, 2024 at 02:08 PM
Douglas L
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p.1 #20 · Sony A1 & 200-600mm against OM-1 II M.Zuiko & 300mm


Thank you for the effort! Last year I was intrigued by the OM system and looked at their high end prime with the built-in TC. In the end, I decided not to add another system. I recall at equivalent effective FL and aperture, my A1 will give me 51MP, vs the 20MP from OM. It's a lot more compact for sure.


Jun 09, 2024 at 02:13 PM
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