GroovyGeek wrote:
Perhaps if the issue was only in the EVF. But I see it both in the LCD and the EVF. Will call Nikon today because this does not look normal to me.
Do you see it in actual use or is this result of ISO 100 , F4 with no light ? Is it the same with the mech shutter ?
RoamingScott wrote:
My ZF and Z9 do the same exact thing if set to 30".
Set the Z6iii to like 1/50th instead in manual mode and see what happens.
Again, the perils of wringing your hands about a scenario that doesn't apply to normal operation.
Having ease of viewing enabled makes it WAY worse to the point of looking like yours.
Thank you for trying this on your camarras. As noted in my original post I already tested this in M mode, and the issue is present at all shutter speeds including 1/60,000.
Per your earlier suggestion - starlight mode is off. When I turn it on the whole screen gets nearly red, like a much more pronounced state of the video I posted.
I am not wringing my hands, just familiarizing myself with the camera setup before I start shooting. I am at work throughout the day and by the time I get home on a weekday it is too late to do anything meaningful with the camera, so I have been using the evenings to go through the menus and settings which have changed significantly from the Z6.
Another weird behavior - when I put the 14-30/4 on the camera the effect is MUCH more pronounced when the barrel is retracted, and goes back to the baseline as in the video I posted when I put the lens on the shooting position.
For those who could perhaps be helpful, here is a brief video. z6iii lcd first Z6 second. I tried resetting the menus to default which did not help.
Hi GroovyGeek,
Nikon wannabee here (kindly forgive my question for any ignorance!)...your Z6III shows the View Mode icon showing on the display where the other camera (Z8?) does not. From what I'm reading in both manuals (Z6II p.631 "d10: View Mode (Photo Lv)", Z8 p.596 "d8: View Mode (Photo Lv)")...
<< [Adjust for ease of viewing]
The effects of changes to settings such as white balance, Picture Controls, and exposure compensation are not visible in the shooting display. Pressing 2 when [Adjust for ease of viewing] is highlighted displays [Auto] and [Custom] options.
• [Auto]: Color, brightness, and other settings are adjusted for ease of viewing during prolonged periods of use.
• [Custom]: Press 2 to make individual adjustments to [White balance], [Set Picture Control], and [Brighten shadows].
- [White balance]: Choose from [Preview current setting], [Auto], and [Choose color temperature]. Select [Choose color temperature] to choose the color temperature for the shooting display.
- [Set Picture Control]: Choose from [Preview current setting] and [Adjust for ease of viewing].
- [Brighten shadows]: Choose whether or by how much the camera brightens shadows (dark areas) in the display; the available options are [Off], [+1], [+2], and [+3]. The higher the value, the greater the effect.
• ICON will appear in the shooting display.
>>
...any chance you can redo your test where both displays are set with View Mode set to the same settings (both On and Off)?
Nikon wannabee here (kindly forgive my question for any ignorance!)...your Z6III shows the View Mode icon showing on the display where the other camera (Z8?) does not. From what I'm reading in both manuals (Z6II p.631 "d10:
View Mode (Photo Lv)", Z8 p.596 "d8:
View Mode (Photo Lv)")...
<< [Adjust for ease of viewing]
The effects of changes to settings such as white balance, Picture Controls, and exposure compensation are not visible in the shooting display. Pressing 2 when [Adjust for ease of viewing] is highlighted displays [Auto] and [Custom] options.
[• Auto]: Color, brightness, and other settings are adjusted for ease of viewing during prolonged periods of use.
[• Custom]: Press 2 to make individual adjustments to [White balance], [Set Picture Control], and [Brighten shadows].
- [White balance]: Choose from [Preview current setting], [Auto], and [Choose color temperature]. Select [Choose color temperature] to choose the color temperature for the shooting display.
- [Set Picture Control]: Choose from [Preview current setting] and [Adjust for ease of viewing].
- [Brighten shadows]: Choose whether or by how much the camera brightens shadows (dark areas) in the display; the available options are [Off], [+1], [+2], and [+3]. The higher the value, the greater the effect.
• ICON will appear in the shooting display.
>>
...any chance you can redo your test where both displays are set with View Mode set to the same settings (both On and Off)?
I bet that's it , he's shooting into darkness and boosting the shadows and also in video mode. If you don't see the issue in real world shooting is it a real issue ?
JustShootMe wrote:
I bet that's it , he's shooting into darkness and boosting the shadows and also in video mode. If you don't see the issue in real world shooting is it a real issue ?
From the display layout it appears he's in Photo Mode, no? Regarding whether it's an issue...OP is only trying to understand the behavior of the camera display, not the image being taken, so your question seems moot.
GroovyGeek wrote:
It is there with both the mech and electronic shutters. It is there at all ISOs, apertures and shutter speeds when the camera is in manual mode.
My Z6 III does it too. It's simply the camera selecting a higher ISO on the sensor to generate the LV feed in very low-light conditions. A little secret about MILCs - the shutter speed and ISO you have dialed in as the exposure is not the actual shutter speed and ISO the sensor is kept at while idle in LV. The camera has to select its own shutter speed and ISO to maintain a proper feed for the AF system and to provide a usable LV feed to the user across a wide-range of exposures.
snapsy wrote:
My Z6 III does it too. It's simply the camera selecting a higher ISO on the sensor to generate the LV feed in very low-light conditions. A little secret about MILCs - the shutter speed and ISO you have dialed in as the exposure is not the actual shutter speed and ISO the sensor is kept at while idle in LV. The camera has to select its own shutter speed and ISO to maintain a proper feed for the AF system and to provide a usable LV feed to the user across a wide-range of exposures.
So... It turns out that I am a moron of unimaginable proportions. The effect is present only when the view mode is set to "Adjust for ease of viewing". When view mode is "Show effect of settings" the behavior is the same as legacy.
When I first noticed this that was my initial thought, that my view mode was "adjust for ease of viewing". But I could have sworn that I immediately confirmed that the issue is present in "show effect of settings" mode. Apparently I did not press the OK button. Doh...
I can totally understand why "ease of viewing" mode does that. But I still don't understand why the histogram is not displaying on screen in that mode. Probably Nikon is generating the on screen histogram from the LV feed, not the the sensor data stream.
GroovyGeek wrote:
So... It turns out that I am a moron of unimaginable proportions. The effect is present only when the view mode is set to "Adjust for ease of viewing". When view mode is "Show effect of settings" the behavior is the same as legacy.
When I first noticed this that was my initial thought, that my view mode was "adjust for ease of viewing". But I could have sworn that I immediately confirmed that the issue is present in "show effect of settings" mode. Apparently I did not press the OK button. Doh...
I can totally understand why "ease of viewing" mode does that. But I still don't understand why the histogram is not displaying on screen in that mode. Probably Nikon is generating the on screen histogram from the LV feed, not the the sensor data stream. ...Show more →
The histogram is unavailable in "ease of viewing" mode because the camera is unable to reliably generate one for the full range of ambient exposures when it's tweaking the sensor params even more in that mode to generate a usable LV feed. Again, the camera doesn't use the ISO and shutter speed you have set in the exposure for the LV feed, even when "ease of viewing" is OFF. The easiest way to demonstrate this is how the LV feed doesn't stutter when you have a long shutter speed set.
Got my Z6III yesterday and went through the process of setting it up/etc
- Flippy Screen : don't mind it so far, i like that I can flip the vulnerable screen to face the camera when not in use, only wish It could flip directly back and face up while remaining low so I could look directly down at it pretending like its a 6x6 hasselblad or something but my D780 can't really get that position either (partly because of a circular 3rd party eye diopter I added). Flippy screen should be fine for video we'll see.
-Feels great in my hand especially with the 24-120. Actually feels great with FTZII 85mm 1.4 and adapted lenses too, for some reason I actually kinda like the gap the adapter provides. Tested 105mm 1.4 and 70-200 E FL today too.
-EVF is a wild experience.
-Question :
-what is the quickest way to switch from 4K/60 to 1080(full hd)/240 ? I watched the set up from Taylor Jackson and Matt Johnson on YT and was able to set up like 90-95% of what I can think of so far and that's part of the % I'm interested in but haven't been able to find yet.
okafoja wrote:
I decided against getting Z6III due to its poor dynamic range, especially for video. I had sold my z6II for the same reason. The video quality of my z6ii was good, but the dynamic range sucks, and it was disappointing to learn that Z6III had a similar or worse dynamic range. I want to go for Z8 now, but I'm unsure if Z8 is any better.
I shoot 100% RAW videos for weddings. Z6 would have made my life easy, but I am so used to the dynamic range in Fuji XH2s that I don't want to go backward. Also, noise looked so much better with Fuji. I'm not sure what is going on with Z6III. I won't have any issues with Z6III for stills, and I know this forum is not for videos....Show more →
So the Z6III would be good for stills but you're unsure about video.
Does the Sony A7SIII fit your requirement for video but not stills ?
Thankfully I don't think my video requirements will exceed what the Z6III provides.
ilkka_nissila wrote:
I don't see how the log curve would affect dynamic range when recording raw. The raw files contain basically all the information the sensor can give. Log is a transformation that cannot create extra information, it only modifies the way the data is stored and represented.
When recording non-raw video, log can indeed increase the dynamic range. This happens because the file format has lower bit depth than raw and this range of values can be more efficiently stored by transforming the linear sensor readings with log and then storing it in a lower bit depth format.
I can see that if you are used to working with log video you'd want to keep doing that with raw video footage but it shouldn't affect dynamic range at least in the sensor information sense that I understand it.
okafoja wrote: okafoja wrote: ArizonaImage wrote: okafoja wrote:
Sony is not even the right camera to compare the video dynamic range of Z6III. Try comparing it with Fujix XH2S, and you will see that Z6III is far behind. I shoot more wedding videos than stills these days, and the Z6II dynamic range sucks. For Z6III to be worse than Z6II is not good. It is so easy to work around the issue on stills, but video is almost impossible, and it has nothing to do with exposing properly. There are some scenes where you have to push the shadows.
I'm so confused because I used the style="display:none;"> style="display:none;"> style="display:none;"> Z6II for years, so I know what I will be getting into. The Z6III is the perfect camera for me, except for the DR. Hopefully, Nikon will come out with N-Log 2. I have already put my Canon R6II for sale. ...Show more →
I wouldn't compare an APS-C sensor camera to a FF camera. Z6 III competes with the R6 II and A7IV. No one looking at an XH2S is comparing it to a Z6 III. For my use, the Z6 III has matched the performance of the Z5 and Z6 II in my use. I see no drawbacks in video or stills IQ or DR.[/quote
I understand that for your own needs, such as photos, there's no need to compare Fuji with Z6III. But in video, a crop sensor with a fully stacked sensor easily outperforms Z6III in terms of dynamic range. The sensor in Z6III regressed in this aspect. ...Show more →
According to Photons to Photos, the Z6 III bests the Fuji X-H2S. I think there is a lot of hearsay about the Z6 III with skewed testing methods. I believe the tests I do with the camera in my hands as well as others who know how to test. I'll keep pointing out that the Z6 III scores 11.9-12.5 stops of dynamic range for video via Imatest, which puts it directly in line with the A7 IV, A7S II, and R6 II and all of those cameras are phenomenal cameras. So in conclusion, the Z6 III isn't worse than before, isn't worse than the competition and there are plenty of tests that prove it from reputable, unbiased reviewers....Show more →
neoshazam wrote:
Got my Z6III yesterday and went through the process of setting it up/etc
- Flippy Screen : don't mind it so far, i like that I can flip the vulnerable screen to face the camera when not in use, only wish It could flip directly back and face up while remaining low so I could look directly down at it pretending like its a 6x6 hasselblad or something but my D780 can't really get that position either (partly because of a circular 3rd party eye diopter I added). Flippy screen should be fine for video we'll see.
-Feels great in my hand especially with the 24-120. Actually feels great with FTZII 85mm 1.4 and adapted lenses too, for some reason I actually kinda like the gap the adapter provides. Tested 105mm 1.4 and 70-200 E FL today too.
-EVF is a wild experience.
-Question :
-what is the quickest way to switch from 4K/60 to 1080(full hd)/240 ? I watched the set up from Taylor Jackson and Matt Johnson on YT and was able to set up like 90-95% of what I can think of so far and that's part of the % I'm interested in but haven't been able to find yet. ...Show more →
On mine, I set 3 different video settings for U1, U2, and U3. For U1, I have it set to 6K/60 NRAW + NLOG, for U2 4K/120, and so on. Its a quick way to change video settings
ArizonaImage wrote: okafoja wrote: okafoja wrote: ArizonaImage wrote: okafoja wrote:
Sony is not even the right camera to compare the video dynamic range of Z6III. Try comparing it with Fujix XH2S, and you will see that Z6III is far behind. I shoot more wedding videos than stills these days, and the Z6II dynamic range sucks. For Z6III to be worse than Z6II is not good. It is so easy to work around the issue on stills, but video is almost impossible, and it has nothing to do with exposing properly. There are some scenes where you have to push the shadows.
I'm so confused because I used style="display:none;"> style="display:none;"> style="display:none;"> style="display:none;"> the Z6II for years, so I know what I will be getting into. The Z6III is the perfect camera for me, except for the DR. Hopefully, Nikon will come out with N-Log 2. I have already put my Canon R6II for sale. ...Show more →
I wouldn't compare an APS-C sensor camera to a FF camera. Z6 III competes with the R6 II and A7IV. No one looking at an XH2S is comparing it to a Z6 III. For my use, the Z6 III has matched the performance of the Z5 and Z6 II in my use. I see no drawbacks in video or stills IQ or DR.[/quote
I understand that for your own needs, such as photos, there's no need to compare Fuji with Z6III. But in video, a crop sensor with a fully stacked sensor easily outperforms Z6III in terms of dynamic range. The sensor in Z6III regressed in this aspect. ...Show more →
According to Photons to Photos, the Z6 III bests the Fuji X-H2S. I think there is a lot of hearsay about the Z6 III with skewed testing methods. I believe the tests I do with the camera in my hands as well as others who know how to test. I'll keep pointing out that the Z6 III scores 11.9-12.5 stops of dynamic range for video via Imatest, which puts it directly in line with the A7 IV, A7S II, and R6 II and all of those cameras are phenomenal cameras. So in conclusion, the Z6 III isn't worse than before, isn't worse than the competition and there are plenty of tests that prove it from reputable, unbiased reviewers....Show more →
I keep forgetting this is a photography forum. In the video, xh2s outperforms the Z6III in dynamic range by 2 stops. There's no comparison. Not even close in real life going by my Z6II experience
RoamingScott wrote:
Why are you arguing with a long time Z6ii user? He knows exactly what these cameras can and can't do in video mode.
Noise in still and video, especially in nLog, are totally different from each other.
I'm just not seeing the detrimental performance as some YT'ers are saying. I didn't see a difference between the Z6 III or my Z5, Z6 II, Zf, or Z8 to make unmerited headline news about it. I get it, people need something to complain about and get views. They did the same thing about the AF and then the same thing about the Z9's stacked sensor when comparing it to a Z7 II. I don't think people will be happy until they have a camera that shoots 12K RAW video, 90mp sensor, 500 fps burst, 20 stops of dynamic range for $1800
I keep forgetting this is a photography forum. In the video, xh2s outperforms the Z6III in dynamic range by 2 stops. There's no comparison. Not even close in real life going by my Z6II experience
According to Imatest, the X-H2S scores between 11.9-12.3 stops of dynamic range in video shot in H.265 F-LOG1 and F-LOG2 which again is in line with Imatest's Z6 III score of 11.9-12.5, albeit the 12.5 is using VLOG instead of NLOG. According to Imatest, NLOG doesn't have the latitude like Sony S-Log or Canon C-Log. The worst DR score the Z6 III had was when shooting NRAW + NLOG that managed just under 10-stops, but that had no noise reduction. That's why shooters are hoping for NLOG 2
Jimmy G