snapsy wrote:
I was the original purveyor of the idea, which I was widely panned for in the photography media Here's the video I made about it:
There is one small caveat to this, your camera needs to be set to stills mode not video. In video mode the shutter will not close when the battery is removed while the camera is in the 'On' position.
MRomine wrote:
I thought the a1 was the first and succeeding models also have this feature, am I wrong about that?
The A1 has a regular mechanical shutter as well so therefore it does not have a purpose-built sensor shield, but it has an option to use the actual shutter as a dust shield, which is better than nothing, you just need to be super careful around it. The A1 sensor is a bit slower than the Z8/Z9 but not by much, it could have gotten away without a shutter as well but the mechanical shutter gives them the option of 1/400 flash sync which is nice for some people.
CanadaMark wrote:
The A1 has a regular mechanical shutter as well so therefore it does not have a purpose-built sensor shield, but it has an option to use the actual shutter as a dust shield, which is better than nothing, you just need to be super careful around it. The A1 sensor is a bit slower than the Z8/Z9 but not by much, it could have gotten away without a shutter as well but the mechanical shutter gives them the option of 1/400 flash sync which is nice for some people.
The two sensors have identical per-row readout speeds - the full-sensor readout difference is a function of the slightly different resolution:
snapsy wrote:
The two sensors have identical per-row readout speeds - the full-sensor readout difference is a function of the slightly different resolution:
CanadaMark wrote:
The A1 has a regular mechanical shutter as well so therefore it does not have a purpose-built sensor shield, but it has an option to use the actual shutter as a dust shield, which is better than nothing, you just need to be super careful around it. The A1 sensor is a bit slower than the Z8/Z9 but not by much, it could have gotten away without a shutter as well but the mechanical shutter gives them the option of 1/400 flash sync which is nice for some people.
Canon R5 started this trend. It also uses it's mechanical shutter as dust shield
CanadaMark wrote:
The A1 has a regular mechanical shutter as well so therefore it does not have a purpose-built sensor shield, but it has an option to use the actual shutter as a dust shield, which is better than nothing, you just need to be super careful around it. The A1 sensor is a bit slower than the Z8/Z9 but not by much, it could have gotten away without a shutter as well but the mechanical shutter gives them the option of 1/400 flash sync which is nice for some people.
Everone tries to make a big deal about this and who was first and Nikon's BS about damaging the shutter.
All film cameras had the shutter down to protect the film when changing lenses. I don't read about this causing users to damage the shutters.
Some digital mirrorless cameras like the Leica M cameras have also had the shutter down when not actually taking an image. This meant the shutter was protecting against dust when changing lenses whether the camera was off or on. I don't read reports of shutter damage because of this.
If ai remember correctly Canon was first to market this as a new feature. Sony added it to some cameras through firmware. Nikon had a shutter only for this in the 9/8. Leica has always had it in their digital mirrorless camers.
Nikon's assertions about users damaging their shutters as a reason not to include this feature is BS. It ignores history and the experiences of manufacturers of other brands. Nikon should offer it as an option to its users.
Every camera release there is always one major complaint , for the ZF the way the auto ISO works , Z9 to big, A9iii dynamic range or something . We are spoiled rotten , still complaining.
bernardl wrote:
Could it be because there was a mirror between the mount and the shutter?
Any way you look at it, protecting the rather robust sensor glass with a clearly fragile shutter is a terrible idea.
This has nothing to do with brands, it's basic common sense.
Cheers,
Bernard
What is actual common sense is the facts of history.
The millions of cameras pre slr had their shutters closed when changing lenses. No mirrors in them, that history negates your logic about that.
The Leica cameras from the very first digital M decades ago had the shutter down during lens changes. That also flies in the face of your definition of common sense.
The hundreds of thousands maybe millions of current digital cameras being sold with this feature also are not having this problem. This includes your own A9III (you may be choosing not to use it) and are not having problems. This also negates your claim of common sense.
In my opinion an optional feature that adds value like keeping dust from negatively impacting your images without creating problems makes common sense to include.
With such a long period of time and such a huge sample base from which to draw conclusions, it makes more common sense to include the feature than using theoretical risk with no data to back it up as a reason to delete the feature.
This is not just about the 6III, it is about the whole Nikon ICL mirrorless line. Common sense says that Nikon should at the very minimum give it's users the option.
JustShootMe wrote:
Every camera release there is always one major complaint , for the ZF the way the auto ISO works , Z9 to big, A9iii dynamic range or something . We are spoiled rotten , still complaining.
The z6 iii name has to many characters. That’s my complaint. Z6 viii will be the worst. It should have been z63…oh wait /s
JustShootMe wrote:
Every camera release there is always one major complaint , for the ZF the way the auto ISO works , Z9 to big, A9iii dynamic range or something . We are spoiled rotten , still complaining.
Yep. Others complained about resolution of 24mp but the 20mp in the D5 was ok back then. Mind you, the Z6 III if it’s got the 99% AF of the Z9 would be in some ways better than a D5. Nikon hit it out of the park and I bet the handicapped some intro features that they’ll add via firmware like RAW pre-capture.
1bwana1 wrote:
What is actual common sense is the facts of history.
The millions of cameras pre slr had their shutters closed when changing lenses. No mirrors in them, that history negates your logic about that.
The Leica cameras from the very first digital M decades ago had the shutter down during lens changes. That also flies in the face of your definition of common sense.
The hundreds of thousands maybe millions of current digital cameras being sold with this feature also are not having this problem. This includes your own A9III (you may be choosing not to use it) and are not having problems. This also negates your claim of common sense.
In my opinion an optional feature that adds value like keeping dust from negatively impacting your images without creating problems makes common sense to include.
With such a long period of time and such a huge sample base from which to draw conclusions, it makes more common sense to include the feature than using theoretical risk with no data to back it up as a reason to delete the feature.
This is not just about the 6III, it is about the whole Nikon ICL mirrorless line. Common sense says that Nikon should at the very minimum give it's users the option....Show more →
Some answers:
1. The pre-DSLR cameras sold in much lower volumes than what you indicate, there was no other choice, the mounts were smaller in diameter and deeper (the shutter was less likely to be accidentally hit), the shutter type were much cruder, and therefore a lot less fragile, than modern shutters syncing at 1/250 or faster. So there is really no comparison and your historical "data" is of low relevance I am afraid,
2. The a9III doesn't have a shutter, it has a dedicated shield like the Z8/Z9 which is much more robust than a shutter. Which itself confirms the fragility of the shutter, why would Sony have spent cash designing a dedicated shield if the shutter were robust enough?
3. Where are the data enabling you to claim that nobody is breaking shutters when using them as sensor protectors?
I am afraid that your views are once again driven by the desire to defend Sony designs (prior to the a9III) more than by a genuine belief in the argument you are trying to defend in the face of logic.
JustShootMe wrote:
Every camera release there is always one major complaint , for the ZF the way the auto ISO works , Z9 to big, A9iii dynamic range or something . We are spoiled rotten , still complaining.
But but but... how else do we get to fill a 17 page thread... and counting.
chatcher wrote:
I always struggled with the decision to spend the money for RRS over the much cheaper alternatives, but suddenly my choice got easier when RRS and others eliminated the wide strap slot from their brackets. I still use the old Nikon design hand strap which needs a wide slot. Time will tell which, if any, makers include it on their Z6iii brackets. I had to buy a Kirk bracket for my Z9.
Kirk also have steel reinforced QD mount which is how it should be done properly unlike on the RRS.
snapsy wrote:
What do you mean? The fact that the camera closes the shutter on a battery pull?
I think there are two issues -
- You have to go through multiple gyrations for each lens change. Many times you won’t have the luxury of that time.
- It risky to remove the battery with the camera turned on. You may get away with it or maybe you won’t. You risk corruption of your settings or worse, electrical damage to the circuitry or corruption of the firmware. Getting the camera’s firmware re-imaged requires a trip to Nikon.
I can’t believe all the dust that’s been kicked up about this! (pun intended) We’ve taken trillions of great photos without a sensor shields and now, all of a sudden, it’s a life or death situation?? A little common sense goes a long way.
Here's the video I made about it:
Slightly faster but very close.