rollei35_warton wrote:
Last week I had an opportunity travelling to Hongkong and personally saw a D-Lux8, I was offered to buy it.
I eyed on a 12 year old M9 with the new non-corrosive sensor replacement at the same dealer and with almost same price of d-Lux 8.
Guess which one I bought? I just hate the d-Lux line so much.
How does one hate an object like camera? One may have other preferences, but hate makes no sense.
So what do you hate exactly?
The fact that it was co-developed with Panasonic?
The form factor?
The Zoom lens?
The 4/3 sensor size?
The ergonomics?
The menu system?
The workflow?
The images it produces?
There must be something very significant if you are willing to buy a camera with an antiquated sensor design that had major manufacturing and design defects that were famous for causing failures.
More revealing than that may be your need to repeatedly tell us about your hate...
rollei35_warton wrote:
Last week I had an opportunity travelling to Hongkong and personally saw a D-Lux8, I was offered to buy it.
I eyed on a 12 year old M9 with the new non-corrosive sensor replacement at the same dealer and with almost same price of d-Lux 8.
Guess which one I bought? I just hate the d-Lux line so much.
Congrats on your D-Lux 8 purchase.
And I don’t blame you, when I had an M9 I absolutely hated the shutter feel and sound, the pathetic LCD, the worst auto WB I had ever experienced, the fact that the RF would drift very easily, how sensitive it was to memory cards, and the limited ISO range.
Desmolicious wrote:
Congrats on your D-Lux 8 purchase.
And I don’t blame you, when I had an M9 I absolutely hated the shutter feel and sound, the pathetic LCD, the worst auto WB I had ever experienced, the fact that the RF would drift very easily, how sensitive it was to memory cards, and the limited ISO range.
You are so insightful and really funny at the same time.
Desmolicious wrote:
Congrats on your D-Lux 8 purchase.
And I don’t blame you, when I had an M9 I absolutely hated the shutter feel and sound, the pathetic LCD, the worst auto WB I had ever experienced, the fact that the RF would drift very easily, how sensitive it was to memory cards, and the limited ISO range.
I currently own a M11, M10-R black paint. In the past I owned a Q2 and then Q2M. I also have a M-A, and 70+ year old Barnack iiic. I also have 10+ M mount lenses.
So I know what I am buying into as for M9, I know Leica well enough both good and bad side to make the rightful decision for me.
I handled both d-lux8 and m9, I came to the conclusion and I put my money where mouth is.
In case you don't know, on the dark side, I have Nikon D850 (converted to full-spectrum IR), Nikon Zf, Fuji X-T50 and Fuji X100VI, and Sony RX100 7.
I am well acquainted to both dark and bright side. I have strong nerve to withhold your sarcasm.
1bwana1 wrote:
You are so insightful and really funny at the same time.
He forgot sensor corrosion, covering glass cracking... Barely insightful. Those points can be found by a quick googling.
He at least had experience of M9, unlike you just have wordings.
People like you just can't take the different opinions, you have to fight every fight and win it.
rollei35_warton wrote:
I currently own a M11, M10-R black paint. In the past I owned a Q2 and then Q2M. I also have a M-A, and 70+ year old Barnack iiic. I also have 10+ M mount lenses.
So I know what I am buying into as for M9, I know Leica well enough both good and bad side to make the rightful decision for me.
I handled both d-lux8 and m9, I came to the conclusion and I put my money where mouth is.
In case you don't know, on the dark side, I have Nikon D850 (converted to full-spectrum IR), Nikon Zf, Fuji X-T50 and Fuji X100VI, and Sony RX100 7.
I am well acquainted to both dark and bright side. I have strong nerve to withhold your sarcasm....Show more →
What makes you think I was being sarcastic? My M9 experience was horrible, saved by the M240 and now the 10r. The shutter feel on the 9 was maybe rivaled as the worst ever with my Zenit TTL. The combination of gritty feel with inconsistent release was only matched by the sound as if it was mimicking a Polaroid SX-70?
Then the usable iso range? Topping out at maybe 640? I get more usable iso range shooting film!
That lcd panel which was only useful to see if you captured an image? At the time the m9 was being sold you could buy a digital p&s camera that had far superior lcds for 1/10th the price. That AWB which should have been named RWB (random white balance)?
The cool thing about the M9 is that it shows how much improved digital Leica Ms are now. And not in that Sony/Nikon/Canon improved but they were so good anyway you can’t really tell the difference way. No, improved as in now they make decent cameras.
I too had the D850, traded it for the Z7. Should have kept the D850!
rollei35_warton wrote:
He forgot sensor corrosion, covering glass cracking... Barely insightful. Those points can be found by a quick googling.
He at least had experience of M9, unlike you just have wordings.
People like you just can't take the different opinions, you have to fight every fight and win it.
I took pity on the dead horse I was beating. Which begs the question, why on earth would you want an M9 seeing you acknowledge all the things I mentioned that made it a terrible camera compared to its counterparts?
I can understand you not liking the lovely D-Lux 8 as it is not your thing, but to then punish yourself like that?
rollei35_warton wrote:
He forgot sensor corrosion, covering glass cracking... Barely insightful. Those points can be found by a quick googling.
He at least had experience of M9, unlike you just have wordings.
People like you just can't take the different opinions, you have to fight every fight and win it.
Actually, I acknowledged some time ago in this thread that the D-Lux 8 was not a good fit for you for a variety of reasons. I fully support your right to have differing opinions. You keep saying you are done in this thread, but keep returning to say you hate the camera. I am not taking our discussion personally as you appear to be doing. I don't get that.
But as you see below, I am perfectly willing to move on and discuss other things in regard to the very fun to shoot D-Lux 8.
Fred Miranda wrote:
I agree with this. Panasonic designed the core of the camera, and Leica improved upon it with their design and functionality. This approach is similar to what Leica is doing with Sigma lenses in their SL line.. They take the optical design from Sigma and replace the chassis with Leica aesthetics.As a result, Leica fans find the design more familiar, robust, and consistent with their other SL lenses. Ultimately, they are willing to pay more for this, which enhances their enjoyment of their gear and photography.
Leica is also relying on the fact that many of their users might not be fully aware of all these details. ...Show more →
While understanding the relationship with Sigma ... is there any insight to if the optics have any iterative changes (i.e. glass formula specifications, coatings / specs, etc.) from the original Sigma design. Or, are the optics still 100% Sigma? Or, is it the other way around, the optical design is Leica, and Sigma / Panny get to use it in "lesser" bodies as part of the L Mount Alliance?
I say this ... recalling some time back that I mentioned how Sigma had "raised the bar", and it looked like they had taken a page out of Leica's playbook. I never was quite sure if they were copying / reverse engineering Leica-esque ... or being fed it from Leica, more directly.
RustyBug wrote:
While understanding the relationship with Sigma ... is there any insight to if the optics have any iterative changes (i.e. glass formula specifications, coatings / specs, etc.) from the original Sigma design. Or, are the optics still 100% Sigma? Or, is it the other way around, the optical design is Leica, and Sigma / Panny get to use it in "lesser" bodies as part of the L Mount Alliance?
I say this ... recalling some time back that I mentioned how Sigma had "raised the bar", and it looked like they had taken a page out of Leica's playbook. I never was quite sure if they were copying / reverse engineering Leica-esque ... or being fed it from Leica, more directly....Show more →
I only have anecdotal evidence from testing both the Sigma and Leica versions of a couple of lenses (12-24mm and 24-70mm). Any differences I saw fall within normal production tolerances. This means that in some cases, a particular "Leica version" may be better centered, while in other cases, the original Sigma version might perform better. We often want to believe that the more expensive lens will offer better results, but as far as I can tell, without testing numerous copies, the differences lie in the barrel and external construction, not the element assembly.
Interestingly, the Sigma 24-70mm f/2.8 DG DN had an issue where dust would easily accumulate on the front element. The same happened with my Leica SL 24-70mm f/2.8 (Sigma optical design), so there was no difference in that construction flaw either.
madNbad wrote:
Steve, do find the D-Lux more versatile than a Q?
Well I never owned a Q camera so my opinions on this have limited experience living with a Q. To me, the Q cameras are too close in size to my M10-P, and My M11, to find a place in my kit. I much prefer having multiple focal length lens choices to the fixed 28mm. I also enjoy manual focus. So the M(x) and D-Lux 8 pairing makes more sense for me.
The size of the D-Lux 8 is so small and convenient. In that way for it makes a better everyday carry, or second camera to my Ms when I go out on a shoot.
Yes, image quality wise in some circumstances, I like many would probably have prefered an APS-C, higher resolution sensor. But then the D-Lux 8 could not possible have been as small and light weight as it is. Life always forces these kinds of compromises.
Yes, in some ways the D-Lux 8 is more versatile because of the excellent Zoom lens, and small form factor. You can't crop nearly as much as you can with the Q3. But because of the ability to zoom, you can optimally fill the frame and heavy cropping is not needed. I properly composed, properly exposed image using the D-Lux 8 produces a very high image quality, suitable for most uses. Especial true of any digital distribution.
I really like the zoom lens design and quality. Having AF/MF/macro switch on the lens is very convenient. Also the Aperture ring is just right. Well positioned, and just "clicky" enough. The self opening lens cap is another bonus feature, which along with the lens retraction when turned off really make the camera easy to carry around.
One thing I learned recently is that Panasonic's Yamagata lens factory is an industry leader in high precision aspherical lens manufacturing. They are the actual source for these types of lens elements for many camera and lens companies. I think Leica made a good choice in designing a unique Zoom lens with complex asph designs and choosing Panasonic to manufacture the lens. I am thinking that this factory quitely makes elements for other well regarded Leica lenses as well.
Finally the design, ergonomics, menus, and workflow is so Q3 like as to be roughly equivalent.
For me the D-Lux 8 is the perfect fit for what I wanted to add to my Leica kit. This would not be the case if it were to be my only Leica camera. Then I would likely prefer the Q3. I think we all need to decide for ourselves whether it is a good fit for us in the context of what we already shoot.
1bwana1 wrote:
Well I never owned a Q camera so my opinions on this have limited experience living with a Q. To me, the Q cameras are too close in size to my M10-P, and My M11, to find a place in my kit. I much prefer having multiple focal length lens choices to the fixed 28mm. I also enjoy manual focus. So the M(x) and D-Lux 8 pairing makes more sense for me.
The size of the D-Lux 8 is so small and convenient. In that way for it makes a better everyday carry, or second camera to my Ms when I go out on a shoot.
Yes, image quality wise in some circumstances, I like many would probably have prefered an APS-C, higher resolution sensor. But then the D-Lux 8 could not possible have been as small and light weight as it is. Life always forces these kinds of compromises.
Yes, in some ways the D-Lux 8 is more versatile because of the excellent Zoom lens, and small form factor. You can't crop nearly as much as you can with the Q3. But because of the ability to zoom, you can optimally fill the frame and heavy cropping is not needed. I properly composed, properly exposed image using the D-Lux 8 produces a very high image quality, suitable for most uses. Especial true of any digital distribution.
I really like the zoom lens design and quality. Having AF/MF/macro switch on the lens is very convenient. Also the Aperture ring is just right. Well positioned, and just "clicky" enough. The self opening lens cap is another bonus feature, which along with the lens retraction when turned off really make the camera easy to carry around.
One thing I learned recently is that Panasonic's Yamagata lens factory is an industry leader in high precision aspherical lens manufacturing. They are the actual source for these types of lens elements for many camera and lens companies. I think Leica made a good choice in designing a unique Zoom lens with complex asph designs and choosing Panasonic to manufacture the lens. I am thinking that this factory quitely makes elements for other well regarded Leica lenses as well.
Finally the design, ergonomics, menus, and workflow is so Q3 like as to be roughly equivalent.
For me the D-Lux 8 is the perfect fit for what I wanted to add to my Leica kit. This would not be the case if it were to be my only Leica camera. Then I would likely prefer the Q3. I think we all need to decide for ourselves whether it is a good fit for us in the context of what we already shoot.
I bought a D-Lux 4 when they first came out. The Leica rep was doing a great sale pitch. I used it for about six years and it was a nice addition to my film cameras. It’s good to hear the menus are more in line with the other digital Leicas. Thanks for the feedback and Rusty nails it’s appeal.
madNbad wrote:
I bought a D-Lux 4 when they first came out. The Leica rep was doing a great sale pitch. I used it for about six years and it was a nice addition to my film cameras. It’s good to hear the menus are more in line with the other digital Leicas. Thanks for the feedback and Rusty nails it’s appeal.
I wish you were closer. I would loan you mine for a couple of days to try out.
1bwana1 wrote:
I wish you were closer. I would loan you mine for a couple of days to try out.
Thanks for the offer but my Sony A7CII sits on the copy stand to digitize the negatives from the M4 and M4-2. The iPhone 15 handles the digital photo work.
My new replacement D-Lux 8 has arrived it is all setup and I had it with me yesterday. During lunch I had time to visit one of my favorite art museums. I always carry a camera, so I took a couple of images. Nothing too good, but just a test of the new camera.
The light levels were pretty low, but having a fast f/1.7 aperture helps keep the sensor in it's ideal range. Such a useful and fun little every day camera.
Enjoy.
LEICA D-Lux 8DC VARIO-SUMMILUX 1:1.7-2.8/10.9-34 ASPH. lens11mmf/1.71/125s200 ISO0.0 EV
LEICA D-Lux 8DC VARIO-SUMMILUX 1:1.7-2.8/10.9-34 ASPH. lens20mmf/2.61/125s500 ISO0.0 EV
LEICA D-Lux 8DC VARIO-SUMMILUX 1:1.7-2.8/10.9-34 ASPH. lens11mmf/5.61/125s2500 ISO0.0 EV
I've had a D-Lux 8 on pre-order for quite a while, but the trip I wanted it for is coming up in two weeks. Luckily I had also reserved one with LensRentals as a backup plan. It looks like that will be the route I go unless they magically appear in stock in the next 10 days. Fingers are still crossed but not feeling too hopeful.
DougVaughn wrote:
I've had a D-Lux 8 on pre-order for quite a while, but the trip I wanted it for is coming up in two weeks. Luckily I had also reserved one with LensRentals as a backup plan. It looks like that will be the route I go unless they magically appear in stock in the next 10 days. Fingers are still crossed but not feeling too hopeful.
It does seem to be a great all in one travel camera.
I’d like to try one out in store to see if the EVF works for me as many give me a headache.
