p.5 #1 · Z8 extremely unreliable/inconsistent AF in mildly low light
SCoombs wrote:
It produces banding for high speed sync (along with apparently all but a handful of Profoto models) but otherwise it works fine. So long as focus is acquired, the photo will look fine with good flash exposure. It properly interfaces to report aperture and focal length and does everything properly.
And again, the flash has nothing to do with the focus.
Sent you a PM about getting hold of one of your OOC images for me to analyze.
p.5 #2 · Z8 extremely unreliable/inconsistent AF in mildly low light
SCoombs wrote:
It produces banding for high speed sync (along with apparently all but a handful of Profoto models) but otherwise it works fine. So long as focus is acquired, the photo will look fine with good flash exposure. It properly interfaces to report aperture and focal length and does everything properly.
And again, the flash has nothing to do with the focus.
p.5 #3 · Z8 extremely unreliable/inconsistent AF in mildly low light
bernardl wrote:
I have just come across this thread and am amazed by what I read.
My Z8 and Z9 have been super reliable with subject detection (mostly people) in various levels of light. I shot a session in my studio 2 days ago, I would call it fairly dark. I have 90+% of keepers using 50mm f1.2 S, 85mm f1.2 S and 135mm f1.8 S at f2.8 (results a bit better with the more recent 85mm f1.2 and 135mm f1.8). Selecting the images for the client is a major pain because they are all technically perfect. All with flash, profoto Pro-10 x 2 and 3x Pro-Head+ through XL umbrella, Bron Para 88 and Profoto soft box 4x1, using Profoto trigger. But I get similar results with natural light or more portable Profoto flashes.
I only use AF-C, typically C1/C2 mode with orientation, subject detection on, I use 2 boxes about 2/3 of the width and 1/3 of the height, erratic setting, lowest possible reaction time, often 20 fps raw lossless. My subjects do move... no difference still super sharp on the pupil of the eye. I always get more actual resolution with my Z8/Z9 than with my 150mp Phaseone back on XF because of how accurate the AF is with the Nikons. I have basically stopped using the phaseone for people as a result. Similar experiences with my GFX-100II although the latest firmware and the 45-100mm f4 delivers pretty convincing results and a high keeper rate as long as subject movement is slow.
I do also shoot ballet rehearsals in very low venue light (still and video) and got great results too. I can share these. This one is ISO4000 at f1.2 and 1/800s.
Compared to my a9III I typically get more consistent focusing with the Nikons when shooting wide open.
I have no clue why the OP is having so different results, but I would personality have the camera checked. Something isn't right at all. Perhaps a full reset first may help as well.
p.5 #4 · Z8 extremely unreliable/inconsistent AF in mildly low light
story_teller wrote:
@SCoombs@ - I have my camera in AF-C, but when I release the AF-On button, it acts like AF-S and focus is locked. I can’t stress this enough, if you can refocus using the 1/2 press on the shutter, your camera is not set up correctly.
A6-AF Activation deals with the AF-On button, A2 deals with the shutter release button. You need to set both correctly. This is a common problem with people complaining about Nikon cameras not focusing correctly, not just the Z8. A2 is primarily about shooting in AF-S, but also applies to AF-C. If I hold the AF-On button continuously (in AF-C mode) I can use the shutter release multiple times without fear of double focusing while I’m shooting. ...Show more →
Exactly. I always use the back button to focus and the shutter button for focusing is disabled. I then can always stay in AF-C and done need to switch to AF-S. No need to re-compose with subject detection and tracking.
p.5 #5 · Z8 extremely unreliable/inconsistent AF in mildly low light
Laslo Varadi wrote:
Exactly. I always use the back button to focus and the shutter button for focusing is disabled. I then can always stay in AF-C and done need to switch to AF-S. No need to re-compose with subject detection and tracking.
If the subject detection works, this is often true. Of course, we're discussing here issues with the subject detection working properly. With the event I did last night most of the shots I got were because I was able to focus and recompose using single point.
The other thing to keep in mind is that 3D tracking is prone - or at least I have found it to be prone - to jumping off of the thing it was tracking and onto something else. I've never found it especially reliable whether we're talking about the earlier versions on DSLRs or the Z versions on the Z6/7ii or the Z8/9. Even on still lifes, where one might expect to need to recompose more often, I find 3D tracking will jump off of what it was initially tracking a fair bit.
p.5 #6 · Z8 extremely unreliable/inconsistent AF in mildly low light
I'm running FW 2.0 and using Auto area AF almost exclusively and rarely revert to 3D. For what I shoot it works well (wildlife in mostly sunny or cloudy situations). I'm relatively new to the Z8 (also shoot with the A1), so still getting the hang of it.
p.5 #7 · Z8 extremely unreliable/inconsistent AF in mildly low light
Laslo Varadi wrote:
I'm running FW 2.0 and using Auto area AF almost exclusively and rarely revert to 3D. For what I shoot it works well (wildlife in mostly sunny or cloudy situations). I'm relatively new to the Z8 (also shoot with the A1), so still getting the hang of it.
3D was popular among wildlife shooters when the Z9 first came out and before 2.0 on the Z8, but judging from all the forums most have moved away from using it much.
p.5 #8 · Z8 extremely unreliable/inconsistent AF in mildly low light
SCoombs wrote:
3D was popular among wildlife shooters when the Z9 first came out and before 2.0 on the Z8, but judging from all the forums most have moved away from using it much.
One of my friends who is a much better birder than me is pretty much using Auto Area AF exclusively with his Z9. If you think about it the 3D is a carryover from the DSLR days. I never used it though when I shot with the D850. The Nikons seem to me to be a little more finicky with AF compared to my A1. On the other hand the Nikons seem to have more customization which I like, but it takes time to figure out the best combinations.
p.5 #9 · Z8 extremely unreliable/inconsistent AF in mildly low light
SCoombs wrote:
It produces banding for high speed sync (along with apparently all but a handful of Profoto models) but otherwise it works fine. So long as focus is acquired, the photo will look fine with good flash exposure. It properly interfaces to report aperture and focal length and does everything properly.
And again, the flash has nothing to do with the focus.
Actually it may since flashes like the Profoto a10 have an illuminator function that can now be used by Z8/Z9 to help focus in near complete darkness.
On your comment about lenses, I was focusing at f2.8 even though the lenses are much brighter. As you know Nikon mirrorless bodies focus at set aperture up to f5.6 beyond which they focus at f5.6 then stop down to set aperture at capture time.
p.5 #10 · Z8 extremely unreliable/inconsistent AF in mildly low light
sungphoto wrote:
Lovely photo Bernard! You’re making me want to pick up that 50 1.2 again
Thanks! Yes it’s a very sweet lens.
I am impatiently waiting for the 35mm f1.2 S though. Z mount bright prime have been getting better and better at each new release and considering how incredibly good the Plena is I have high hopes for the 35mm f 1.2 S.
Probably one of the last 2 lenses I intend to buy short term, the second one would be a 100-200mm f2.0 TC.
p.5 #11 · Z8 extremely unreliable/inconsistent AF in mildly low light
bernardl wrote:
Actually it may since flashes like the Profoto a10 have an illuminator function that can now be used by Z8/Z9 to help focus in near complete darkness.
On your comment about lenses, I was focusing at f2.8 even though the lenses are much brighter. As you know Nikon mirrorless bodies focus at set aperture up to f5.6 beyond which they focus at f5.6 then stop down to set aperture at capture time.
Have you tried the settings I mentioned?
Cheers,
Bernard
If we're talking about an assist light then sure the flash unit can make a difference. As I said, I have found that when I do go into AF-S with the camera's illuminator the focus is almost perfect, but I was not thinking of this because the on-camera light is extremely conspicuous and most photographers I've seen commenting on it seem to say that they'd never use this in an event for this reason, and because the reality is that the vast majority of people reporting no issues are not using the AF-assist light or a flash that has one.
Thanks for mentioning the model that does, though, as I was just trying to figure out if one existed yet. Unfortunately there is no way I could possibly afford one of Profoto's rather hefty price tags.
I did over the past few hours come across a lot of discussion from people complaining that they can't get focus at events anymore with the Z cameras because their speedlight IR illuminators won't work, though there are also others saying that once the Z9/8 came out it was better and they could. That has not been my experience, of course, but last night I was really hit hard because even with single point AF it was just far, far too slow to grab focus on anyone who was actually moving around.
As far as the settings go, I did try what you mention. It didn't really make any difference that I could notice, so I tried all the combinations of the tracking with lock on settings you were mentioning and I did get the impression that the AF box was more reliably staying on the eye of subjects without jumping around as much when it was set to the slowest response time, but the actual focus was still missing most of the time.
p.5 #13 · Z8 extremely unreliable/inconsistent AF in mildly low light
bernardl wrote:
Sorry to hear that. I would get the camera and lenses checked.
Profoto flashes are expensive but well worth it IMHO. They just work and with the partnership in place with Nikon are guaranteed to keep working.
I might ask them to look at the camera, but I can't do it for at least a month. Still, I can't fathom what could be wrong with this kind of hardware to cause these kinds of problems (as opposed to a DSLR, which has several things I can imagine causing these kinds of problems).
I think the odds that I happened to get four or five lenses all of which have the same unusual thing wrong with them are almost impossibly low.
p.5 #14 · Z8 extremely unreliable/inconsistent AF in mildly low light
Laslo Varadi wrote:
One of my friends who is a much better birder than me is pretty much using Auto Area AF exclusively with his Z9. If you think about it the 3D is a carryover from the DSLR days. I never used it though when I shot with the D850. The Nikons seem to me to be a little more finicky with AF compared to my A1. On the other hand the Nikons seem to have more customization which I like, but it takes time to figure out the best combinations.
AA has become a much better option for birders for BIF and other specific circumstances though it's not a be all, end all. One should be familiar with Wide-large, Wide-small, and custom AF, their applications, and other settings.. If you are new to birding with your Z9/Z9, I suggest buying Steve Perry's book, https://bcgwebstore.com/product/the-ultimate-nikon-z9-setup-shooting-guide-for-wildlife-photography/.
With the refinement of the AF firmware there is lesser need for 3D AF and in fact there are some downsides with using it, especially, if the system loses subject capture for any reason.
p.5 #15 · Z8 extremely unreliable/inconsistent AF in mildly low light
The unfortunate reality is that a combination of settings along with user behavior is the likely culprit. Whittling down exactly what it is would be easier next to someone with a “functional” camera to compare against.
The point made earlier about AF efficacy being based on the amount of light the EVF is working with is valid and why fast lenses are often needed in these situations.
p.5 #16 · Z8 extremely unreliable/inconsistent AF in mildly low light
SCoombs wrote:
I don't think it's only with flash. It's just that the circumstances in which it happens are the circumstances where I am trying to use flash. If I turn the flash off in these situations I still get extremely unreliable focus.
distance?