p.1 #1 · X-Trans 26Mpix vs 40Mpix, differences in resolving fine details
Hello,
Inspired by gear-nut user, I conducted a simple test to see clearly what are rally differences between X-Trans IV and V sensors.
I had in mind real world usage with using one of best possible lens for Fuji X, and I was focusing only to spot any differences in resolving fine details.
X-Trans V 40Mpix sensor (in theory) should benefit more in resolving fine details, than previous X-Trans sensors generations.
For this reason it should (in theory) let users crop more in post, and it should allow to print in bigger size than native A3 (@300dpi) from 26Mpix sensor.
I used for this test my wife X-T30II and my X-H2, plus one of the sharpest standard primes available for Fuji X system - Viltrox 27/1.2
Sorry for poor align of both test shots.. I was trying to do my best, to put both cameras on my tripod and center them ideally - but it's not as simple as it seems
Files have default C1 settings, I didn't touch anything apart from setting identical WB in both files.
Last image is original X-T30II file upscaled in C1 to 40Mpix
There are very tiny differences between those sensors - I admit.
But it is worth for upgrading? I'm not so sure.
For me those differences are symbolic, and they are seen only on 100% magnification (how many times I've read here and there, that pixel peeping is wrong?)
40Mpix sensor creates problems like bigger file size, and diffraction starts earlier - offering in return almost no benefits in real usage.
My theory for such tiny differences between sensors, is because lenses are weak chain.
I think, that lens which could "infuse/resolve" more resolution from such high pixel density sensor like X-Trans V 40Mpix, probably would be very difficult to design and produce.
And it would be for sure gigantic, heavy and very, very expensive - hardly noone would buy it.
My conclusion: 26Mpix is sweet spot for aps-c size sensors
Now, when I know exactly how very little "improvement" I have in fine details from my X-H2 compared to my previous X-S10, I would definitely choose X-H2s (if I would stay in Fuji X system)
p.1 #2 · X-Trans 26Mpix vs 40Mpix, differences in resolving fine details
@BeatX -- thank you for this test. While I haven't downloaded your raws yet, I am going to and work them myself, but I suspect your conclusions are accurate. So now the discussion will probably evolve to individual preferences.
One of the things I am going to look at more specifically, is "croppability." IOW, if I crop both files to 50% the diagonal and print at say 20", will there be a significant improvement to the extra MP?
p.1 #3 · X-Trans 26Mpix vs 40Mpix, differences in resolving fine details
26mp --> 40mp is not a huge resolution jump, and modern upscaling software is pretty good. So that's probably why you're not seeing a huge difference.
It's possible that there are not a lot of advantages to the 40mp sensor, but the XH2 is a far better camera than the XT30II, and usually people looking at more than just sensor size when determining what to buy.
I'm not sure about your "26mp is the sweet spot" conclusion. If you upscaled a 16mp file (say, from the XT1) and compared it against the 26mp file, you probably wouldn't see a huge difference. And the 26mp files are larger, and diffraction would set in earlier. So using your logic, 16mp would actually be the sweet spot for APS-C sensors.
p.1 #4 · X-Trans 26Mpix vs 40Mpix, differences in resolving fine details
After having done a 50% diagonal crop and processing both optimally and sizing for a 20" print, I then viewed them side by side at print size on my calibrated system. Bottom line is the difference is small, but visible. (I would share these, but it's virtually impossible to make them look the same on web view output as they do in print preview mode on a calibrated monitor.)
As to the actual visible differences, it came down to better clarity or edge definition in high-frequency detail areas, and a smoother tonal gradation. I actually did not see any difference in low value noise, which was a pleasant surprise. Would most non-photographers see or even care about these differences while looking at the prints? Probably not... Is it enough for a critical photographer to justify an upgrade if they already own a 26mp version? Maybe, but probably not based on the small IQ output gains alone. However, if like me you are looking to buy into a small Fuji for the first time, yes, I think the slight gain is worth the approximate 25% added cost of entry -- at least for me.
p.1 #5 · X-Trans 26Mpix vs 40Mpix, differences in resolving fine details
mdude85 wroteI'm not sure about your "26mp is the sweet spot" conclusion. If you upscaled a 16mp file (say, from the XT1) and compared it against the 26mp file, you probably wouldn't see a huge difference. And the 26mp files are larger, and diffraction would set in earlier. So using your logic, 16mp would actually be the sweet spot for APS-C sensors.
Do you know the meaning of the saying "sweet spot" (?)
Before I will answer Your question.. let me ask You: what is Your pixel density sweet spot for aps-c sensor, and why?
gear-nut wrote:
Thanks again to @BeatX@ for posting these
You welcome
Im glad that You find something useful in my simple test.
Here is link for another pack of two raw files, where I tested DR from both sensor in low ISO https://drive.google.com/file/d/1B1FdgCkk7CcvAYdRMd5EhIiqQLoJcQER/view?usp=sharing
But to be honest, I didn't spot any difference between those two sensors in this regard.
Anyway, maybe someone else wants to check it on their own monitor.
p.1 #6 · X-Trans 26Mpix vs 40Mpix, differences in resolving fine details
mdude85 wrote:
It's possible that there are not a lot of advantages to the 40mp sensor, but the XH2 is a far better camera than the XT30II, and usually people looking at more than just sensor size when determining what to buy.
Yes, it's true that overall X-H2 is much better camera than X-T30II, and I love X-H2 PASM ergonomics, deep grip, how it feels in my hand, how it operates, top screen, very much how it looks
Problem is, that there is big competition in the camera market.
I mean.. what does X-H2 has to offer, compared to Panasonic SII or Nikon Z6II (?)
Those cameras are almost the same size, weight and price as X-H2
X-H2s has ultra fast stacked sensor (and best continuous AF Fuji has to offer right now)
X-T5 has retro dials and small form factor (great for street or travel).
X100VI has optical viewfinder, ultra light and compact vintage form factor + retro dials.
X-H2 has what? 8k video recording?
It's very wired offering in Fuji lineup in my opinion
Like I said before.. If I were knew how very little improvement I will get coming from X-S10 to X-H2, I would choose either X-H2s or I would switch to Nikon system where are almost all lenses I need - but it's full frame camera with all benefits coming from it.
p.1 #9 · X-Trans 26Mpix vs 40Mpix, differences in resolving fine details
BeatX wrote:
Yes, it's true that overall X-H2 is much better camera than X-T30II, and I love X-H2 PASM ergonomics, deep grip, how it feels in my hand, how it operates, top screen, very much how it looks
Problem is, that there is big competition in the camera market.
I mean.. what does X-H2 has to offer, compared to Panasonic SII or Nikon Z6II (?)
Those cameras are almost the same size, weight and price as X-H2
X-H2s has ultra fast stacked sensor (and best continuous AF Fuji has to offer right now)
X-T5 has retro dials and small form factor (great for street or travel).
X100VI has optical viewfinder, ultra light and compact vintage form factor + retro dials.
X-H2 has what? 8k video recording?
It's very wired offering in Fuji lineup in my opinion
Like I said before.. If I were knew how very little improvement I will get coming from X-S10 to X-H2, I would choose either X-H2s or I would switch to Nikon system where are almost all lenses I need - but it's full frame camera with all benefits coming from it. ...Show more →
The XH2 file looks a little sharper/more detailed to me. But the difference isn't large as expected. You could do the same tests between APS-C and FF cameras to show that the difference again is not very large and pretty much undetectable when viewed on screen or at less than huge print sizes.
p.1 #10 · X-Trans 26Mpix vs 40Mpix, differences in resolving fine details
BeatX wrote:
Yes, it's true that overall X-H2 is much better camera than X-T30II, and I love X-H2 PASM ergonomics, deep grip, how it feels in my hand, how it operates, top screen, very much how it looks
Problem is, that there is big competition in the camera market.
I mean.. what does X-H2 has to offer, compared to Panasonic SII or Nikon Z6II (?)
Those cameras are almost the same size, weight and price as X-H2
X-H2s has ultra fast stacked sensor (and best continuous AF Fuji has to offer right now)
X-T5 has retro dials and small form factor (great for street or travel).
X100VI has optical viewfinder, ultra light and compact vintage form factor + retro dials.
X-H2 has what? 8k video recording?
It's very wired offering in Fuji lineup in my opinion
Like I said before.. If I were knew how very little improvement I will get coming from X-S10 to X-H2, I would choose either X-H2s or I would switch to Nikon system where are almost all lenses I need - but it's full frame camera with all benefits coming from it. ...Show more →
The super power of X-H2 is that you actually buy one now. X-T5 is sold-out everywhere.
p.1 #13 · X-Trans 26Mpix vs 40Mpix, differences in resolving fine details
Geoff D F wrote:
The XH2 file looks a little sharper/more detailed to me. But the difference isn't large as expected. You could do the same tests between APS-C and FF cameras to show that the difference again is not very large and pretty much undetectable when viewed on screen or at less than huge print sizes.
Yes, I do agree
But imo strength of FF systems lies in its versatility.
FF cameras/lenses are truly best in "jack of all trades" category.
It mainly refer to lens selection, and their variety in any aspect.
Personally if I would rally want to upgrade my camera when it comes to pure IQ, I would skip FF and choose Fuji GF medium format.
p.1 #14 · X-Trans 26Mpix vs 40Mpix, differences in resolving fine details
"FF cameras/lenses are truly best in "jack of all trades" category.
It mainly refer to lens selection, and their variety in any aspect."
Or is it "jack of all trades, master of none"? But if you want FF, then do it, sell the XH2 and move on. No need to go on complaining about details of your super nice camera. It's not for you, that's enough to make a change.
p.1 #15 · X-Trans 26Mpix vs 40Mpix, differences in resolving fine details
BeatX wrote:
You don't prefer specific number of pixes in camera sensor?
Like.. It doesn't metter to You, if apsc camera sensor have 6,16, or 26mpix?
It matters to me but there’s no “sweet spot”, and I don't prefer a specific number of pixels in the sensor. 26mp is fine with me for now but that might change eventually. Sorry if that's not the answer you were looking for...
p.1 #16 · X-Trans 26Mpix vs 40Mpix, differences in resolving fine details
mdude85 wrote:
It matters to me but there’s no “sweet spot”, and I don't prefer a specific number of pixels in the sensor. 26mp is fine with me for now but that might change eventually. Sorry if that's not the answer you were looking for...
So, since we finally established that for now You preffer 26Mpix in apsc sensor, I do assume that it is sweet spot for You for some reason
I do preffer 26Mpix also in apsc sensors, since I can print with native A3 size (@300 dpi), and prints have plenty of fine details, where in A2 size prints I didn't saw as many fine details from X-Trans V 40Mpix sensor.
So, 26Mpix is sweet spot for me, because it's excellent balance between high ISO noise level, DR and possibility to print in size up to A3 without loose in fine details
p.1 #17 · X-Trans 26Mpix vs 40Mpix, differences in resolving fine details
BeatX wrote:
So, since we finally established that for now You preffer 26Mpix in apsc sensor, I do assume that it is sweet spot for You for some reason
I do preffer 26Mpix also in apsc sensors, since I can print with native A3 size (@300 dpi), and prints have plenty of fine details, where in A2 size prints I didn't saw as many fine details from X-Trans V 40Mpix sensor.
So, 26Mpix is sweet spot for me, because it's excellent balance between high ISO noise level, DR and possibility to print in size up to A3 without loose in fine details ...Show more →
I didn't say I prefer it, I said it's fine. In other words, it gets the job done. If you prefer it, good for you.
p.1 #18 · X-Trans 26Mpix vs 40Mpix, differences in resolving fine details
I think there is a sweet spot. But it’s the sensul size, which of course directly translates to mp per sensor size. In my case, I believe the ~ 3.76u pixel pitch is near ideal; smaller than that there simply aren’t many lenses that can resolve down to it, and it’s already pushing the diffraction limits down to f5.6 for lenses that can resolve it. 3.76u translates to 100mp for Fuji GFX sensors, 60mp on Fx and would be 30mp on APSc/Dx. So I tend to agree with @BeatX that pushing to 40mp on APSc was probably overkill. But the sensor is what it is, and I assume from a marketing standpoint Fuji would not have sold many cameras if the pixel count jumped from 26 to 30 lol.
End of day, I agree that the full 40mp of the latest sensor is probably not more meaningful than the gains a 30mp sensor would have given. So I also agree that if you already own a 26mp camera and are considering upgrading to a 40, to not expect any earth-shattering gains in IQ — they’re simply not there. 👍
p.1 #19 · X-Trans 26Mpix vs 40Mpix, differences in resolving fine details
The 40mp files look better to me on my 5K monitor than the 26mp files. I don't find them all that much "better" in any other metric. It's unlikely that I'd make a print with any of my Fuji cams that would exceed the maximum size of the 26mp version, that's just not the niche it fills for me.
In all practical terms, the files are indistinguishable from each other online and in print.
All of that said, the example files in this thread are horrid. Nothing appears critically focused in either one.
p.1 #20 · X-Trans 26Mpix vs 40Mpix, differences in resolving fine details
RoamingScott wrote:
All of that said, the example files in this thread are horrid. Nothing appears critically focused in either one.
lol those sample images was not supposed to be looking nice or interesting. I made them to showcase if there are differences in fine details between both sensors.
Scenery I choose is perfect for this, don't You think?
My photographs which I think are good from artistic pov, can be seen in my Flickr gallery.
