With the SL3 on the scene ... I'm wondering how the electronic shutter readout speeds are compared to the previous SL2, as well as the X1D II and the X2D.
SL3
SL2
X1D
X2D
With the X series (leaf shutter), using adapted M glass requires electronic shutter. From what I've learned of using the electronic shutter on the X1D II, I'm curious where the SL3 compares for readout speed vs. the others. I guess you could toss in my M10R, Q2 and M246 in the mix, also (just for curious reference).
Q2
M246
M10R
Mar 25, 2024 at 08:36 AM
Steve Spencer Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
RustyBug wrote:
With the SL3 on the scene ... I'm wondering how the electronic shutter readout speeds are compared to the previous SL2, as well as the X1D II and the X2D.
SL3
SL2
X1D
X2D
With the X series (leaf shutter), using adapted M glass requires electronic shutter. From what I've learned of using the electronic shutter on the X1D II, I'm curious where the SL3 compares for readout speed vs. the others. I guess you could toss in my M10R, Q2 and M246 in the mix, also (just for curious reference).
Q2
M246
M10R
Here is a database of sensor readout speeds. It includes the SL2, X2D, and Q2, but they don't have the SL3 or the others you mentioned yet.
RustyBug wrote:
With the SL3 on the scene ... I'm wondering how the electronic shutter readout speeds are compared to the previous SL2, as well as the X1D II and the X2D.
SL3
SL2
X1D
X2D
With the X series (leaf shutter), using adapted M glass requires electronic shutter. From what I've learned of using the electronic shutter on the X1D II, I'm curious where the SL3 compares for readout speed vs. the others. I guess you could toss in my M10R, Q2 and M246 in the mix, also (just for curious reference).
Q2
M246
M10R
Based upon the other cameras that share the same sensor, for photography "1/10 " for the SL3 is probably a good guess. Looks like the X2D has been tested to be 1/6. The SL2 and Q2 are 1/26.
As @Steve Spencer posted, the on-going Rolling Shutter project doesn't include the SL3 yet, but hopefully a current owner will provide that soon too.
Looking at the Q2 / SL2 / S1R ... 1/26s, that is sufficient comparison to the X2D at 1/6 vs. the X1D II at 1/3 (not in table). I'd expect the SL3 to be similar or better than the SL2, certainly not in the 1/3s territory of the X1D II or X2D 1/6s.
Looking at the Q2 / SL2 / S1R ... 1/26s, that is sufficient comparison to the X2D at 1/6 vs. the X1D II at 1/3 (not in table). I'd expect the SL3 to be similar or better than the SL2, certainly not in the 1/3s territory of the X1D II or X2D.
I contributed the M11 and SL2 files to this project and as soon as I can find an SL3 to jump into my shopping cart, I'll do the same for the SL3 if someone else doesn't do it sooner.
1/10 is pretty slow. It's similar to the Sony 60MP sensor. I would only use the electronic shutter for static subjects given this sensor read-out speed. Leica missed a great opportunity by not equipping the SL3 with a stacked sensor. Most manufacturers have adopted it -- like Sony, Canon, Fuji, and Nikon.
The SL lenses are designed to be "shot wide open" to optimize their performance, making them more suited for handheld shooting, where a stacked sensor would be beneficial.
Fred Miranda wrote:
1/10 is pretty slow. It's similar to the Sony 60MP sensor. I would only use the electronic shutter for static subjects given this sensor read-out speed. Leica missed a great opportunity by not equipping the SL3 with a stacked sensor. Most manufacturers have adopted it—like Sony, Canon, Fuji, and Nikon.
The SL lenses are designed to be "shot wide open" to optimize their performance, making them more suited for handheld shooting, where a stacked sensor would be beneficial.
1/10 is disappointing IMO as I like to use electronic shutter with my Noctilux lens @ 0,95...even worse for video.
"Leica missed a great opportunity by not equipping the SL3 with a stacked sensor" My thoughts exactly.
There is a discussion thread for the rolling shutter project here on FM. Members can contribute to the database by contacting the OP.
Yeah, all of the Leica cameras have annoyingly slow e-shutter readout speeds. While the 60MP Sony sensor is very capable, this is one area where it's terrible. I'd much rather have seen Leica use the sensor in the a1/z8/z9 instead, but I'm sure there are rea$on$ they didn't. Possibly also technical reasons or access restrictions.
I suspect it will be too soon for Leica to have access to the a9III's global shutter for use in an SL3-S.
Any reasonable chance the SL3 could perform different from the M11 (i.e. different battery / power, etc )?
Or, should we expect 1/10s to be where the SL3 wil land?
Same architecture and megapixel count, so yes, 1/10s readout for A7RIV, A7RV, Sigma fp L, M11, Q3, and SL3.
I think it changes when using the camera in crop mode (APS-C) to 1/20, but perhaps Adam can confirm this but even at 1/20, it's just too slow for shooting moving subjects.
Assuming the scan speed remains consistent, the total time to scan the APS-C crop will be less than FF by the difference in effective sensor height between the two. I think APS-C crop will be 1/15 rather than 1/20.
rscheffler wrote:
Assuming the scan speed remains consistent, the total time to scan the APS-C crop will be less than FF by the difference in effective sensor height between the two. I think APS-C crop will be 1/15 rather than 1/20.
Yes correct: 1/15 in crop mode.
It also varies based on the drive mode. For instance, when using the A7RIV, shooting in APS-C mode with continuous shooting, the scan speed is 1/30s. Unsure about the performance with the Leica SL3.
Fred Miranda wrote:
Yes correct: 1/15 in crop mode.
It also varies based on the drive mode. For instance, when using the A7RIV, shooting in APS-C mode with continuous shooting, the scan speed is 1/30s. Unsure about the performance with the Leica SL3.
Guessing that if the bit depth might be reduced, the readout speed is increased ... possible rationale for mode variance?
The take home message is that it's painfully slow. I can tell you from experience. I was taking candid portraits of on-location models at an auto meet a couple of weeks ago. The models were posing dynamically, changing their poses while I was shooting. I had started the day with my camera in Aperture priority mode with hybrid shutter but I was in full sun so there was no issue - shutter speeds were staying in the mechanical range usually sitting around 1/800 or higher. As you can see from the EXIF data in the below photo, my camera inadvertently got knocked into Shutter priority mode set at 1/16,000 at f/2 and ISO was floating (1600 here - this couldn't be much worse). It gave me a chance to see how bad the rolling shutter is on the SL3. This isn't exactly motorsports speed stuff...
LEICA SL3APO-SUMMICRON-SL 1:2/75 ASPH. lens75mmf/2.01/16000s1600 ISO-0.3 EV
I'm concerned that Leica has not offered EFCS for the SL3. As this discussion has shown, a SL3 owner (realistically) has to rely the mechanical shutter mode, not electronic shutter, for all but static subjects.
Either the new (louder) SL3 mechanical shutter provides no shutter shock to degrade the stratospheric SL APO MTFs or there is a serious IQ disconnect going on here. To my knowledge there is not one mirrorless mechanical focalplane shutter in the world without shutter shock of some kind. EFCS is a cornerstone of modern mirrorless shutter design to minimize shutter shock and is in use by all the major camera companies.
I don't understand Leica. We all know the SL3 has plenty of Panasonic DNA under the hood and their Lumix cameras offer EFCS as an option. Well, I own other Leicas but they have lost a SL3 customer here unless they fix this with a EFCS firmware patch or show without a doubt their mechanical shutter has no meaningful shock...
goodbokeh wrote:
I'm concerned that Leica has not offered EFCS for the SL3. As this discussion has shown, a SL3 owner (realistically) has to rely the mechanical shutter mode, not electronic shutter, for all but static subjects.
Either the new (louder) SL3 mechanical shutter provides no shutter shock to degrade the stratospheric SL APO MTFs or there is a serious IQ disconnect going on here. To my knowledge there is not one mirrorless mechanical focalplane shutter in the world without shutter shock of some kind. EFCS is a cornerstone of modern mirrorless shutter design to minimize shutter shock and is in use by all the major camera companies.
I don't understand Leica. We all know the SL3 has plenty of Panasonic DNA under the hood and their Lumix cameras offer EFCS as an option. Well, I own other Leicas but they have lost a SL3 customer here unless they fix this with a EFCS firmware patch or show without a doubt their mechanical shutter has no meaningful shock... ...Show more →
Shutter shock ... the main reason I dig on leaf shutters vs. focal plane shutters. Dream world would be for Leica to make leaf shutter ILC in the M form factor. No need for the massive size of the SL "stratospheric MTF's" and AF components ... just a machine that is incredibly smooth (i.e. minimal vibrations, by the offsetting, radial forces of the leaf) to shoot. The Q has a leaf shutter with AF, so it's certainly in their realm of possibilities ... but, nothing I expect to see developed anytime soon.
The S system also had leaf shutter options. I don't think it's the ideal solution. Leaf shutter adds size, complexity and expense to each lens. IMO the better technological solution is what Sony and Nikon have done with their stacked sensor cameras. I believe the Nikon Z8/Z9 don't even have mechanical shutter options available, proving the technology exists now to virtually eliminate need for a mechanical shutter. It would be interesting to know the reasons why Leica didn't opt for a stacked sensor in the SL3 as unfortunately every non-stacked Sony FF sensor option appears to have significant challenges with rolling shutter.
I was taking candid portraits of on-location models at an auto meet a couple of weeks ago. The models were posing dynamically, changing their poses while I was shooting. I had started the day with my camera in Aperture priority mode with hybrid shutter but I was in full sun so there was no issue - shutter speeds were staying in the mechanical range usually sitting around 1/800 or higher. As you can see from the EXIF data in the below photo, my camera inadvertently got knocked into Shutter priority mode set at 1/16,000 at f/2 and ISO was floating (1600 here - this couldn't be much worse). It gave me a chance to see how bad the rolling shutter is on the SL3. This isn't exactly motorsports speed stuff... 
