nhsonyshooter wrote:
Funny you bring up the size. It is amazing how the A7/9 bodies have grown. I just picked up an A7riii and it feels so much smaller than the RV. The Riii in reality is not much bigger than my CR. Plus it has a better grip,more mp,MS,better EVF, etc... all for a third the cost of my CR. Funny how things go full circle. CR is gone now. The RIII is my EDC at least until Sony makes the CRii and gets rid of the flip screen.
Yes, the A7RIII and the A9 are about the same smallish size, and I find that size just about perfect. Those two camera make a great pair, the RIII for landscapes and still subjects, the A9 for everything else or just for everything.
I like the A7CII a lot also, but I wish it had a stacked sensor.
I have the sense that Sony thinks of the stacked sensor as something for sports and therefore they might never make one in a compact body. Fuji knows better. The current A1 and the original A9 might be a small as we get with a stacked sensor.
Sony bodies have grown larger because of user feedback?
I use GP-X1EM Grip Extension with A7r3 and A9. The small grip improves handling especially with larger lenses. On the other hand, it also it also makes body about 2,5cm higher - might be a concern with a very small bag.
Regarding A7r3, it is robust and has excellent image quality, but autofocus and general responsivity are a little slow by contemporary standards. However, for me A7r3 replaced Nikon D810 - at time I thought Sony is lightning fast
nhsonyshooter wrote:
Funny you bring up the size. It is amazing how the A7/9 bodies have grown. I just picked up an A7riii and it feels so much smaller than the RV. The Riii in reality is not much bigger than my CR. Plus it has a better grip,more mp,MS,better EVF, etc... all for a third the cost of my CR. Funny how things go full circle. CR is gone now. The RIII is my EDC at least until Sony makes the CRii and gets rid of the flip screen.
I still much prefer the A9, because of the stacked sensor.
It's just a different shooting experience.
No blackout and better tracking of fast moving subjects (more AF calculations per second). (For slow moving subjects the AI subject recognition is nicer on the A7CII though.)
Much faster sensor readout speed makes the electronic shutter great for almost everything.
Higher shutter speeds possible with fast lenses without the need for an ND + without having to worry about EFCS making your bokeh ugly. The A7CII shutter can only do 1/4000 or 1/8000 with the slow reading electronic shutter.
In all of this the one thing to consider any body made after the A7RV release has the newest AF technology which I found even better than the A1 as it holds your subject much better if they turn its head or body. I shoot lots of runway models and noticed this immediately as with the A1 the focus would fall off so anything after the A7Rv has this new AF like the A7CII or R version. Now you will lack electronic shutter more as they are not stacked sensors but frankly I rarely use it anyway( so my buying choice differs), im old school and still rely mostly on mechanical shutter as the electronic readout can be slow for various things. Give and take here
Now is the new AF faster than the A9 focus will be a question mark but it will stick better. I need the AF to stick like glue as im shooting pretty fast and models jump all over the place. And sometimes it's more than 1 model but even 5 . So for me the A7RV works better. I know go figure and I am sure the A7CII will as well, im actually thinking of buying one as backup and personal use cam to the A7RV . So the bottom line here the A9 does not have the latest AF but the A7cII does. So that's one factor to consider and where your style of shooting comes into play. I need the sticker AF and not so much electronic shutter per se. Bottom line electronic shutter is new tech and im an old dog that never really had it so my life has been under the blanket of mechnical shutter. Got to figure out these differences in the tech and what you need.
I consider A9 being a revolutionary camera on two grounds: improvemments in auto focus and usable electronic shutter. These new technologies have made A9 a very enjoyable camera to use. I also like A9 overall image quality despite slightly more narrow dynamic than other Sony cameras. Having only 24mpx resolution with thick AA filter is much more limiting than the dynamic range.
In big picture, while auto focus technologies have evolved ever since, I am frankly a little dissappointed the stacked senser technology from A9 and A1 has not trickled down in Sony camera line-up. We can only dream of a A7c III or IV with stacked 33mpx sensor and fully usable electronic shutter. For the sake of economy and simplicity Sony could leave (the already downgraded) mechanical shutter totally off.
Realistically thinking, despite its limitations, A7c II is what we have - and considering the size and price, it is a pretty competent camera. We could discuss about how to make A7c II (or A7cr) better but those improvements do not happen right now, and they would most probably make the camera also more expensive or larger.
I have an A9II and an A7C, and I think they're a great two camera setup. The 9II is for my kid's activities (surfing, volleyball, fencing) and now that I'm used to the blackout free viewfinder and the electronic shutter, I have no desire to go back to mechanical. I also use the 9II for portraits and prom pictures and anything with a flash. The C is more the daily carry for the weird things I like to shoot. The viewfinder isn't great, but it suffices, and I often have a wide angle manual lens on it that I don't really have to focus.
I will say that the AF of the C is very good in eyeAF mode and it worked great with my kids before I had the 9II. I'm sure the CII is even better.
The thing I like best about the setup is for travel. Having two cameras with 2 lenses is so much more convenient than switching lenses. The small size and weight of the C helps here, and I have both camera in the same bag, usually the 9II with a standard zoom and the C wide something wide (CV15, 9mm).
The battery life on the A7Cii seems considerably worse than my A9ii. It went down 5 percent in about 10 minutes while I was going through the customization menus.
cameraman72 wrote:
The battery life on the A7Cii seems considerably worse than my A9ii. It went down 5 percent in about 10 minutes while I was going through the customization menus.
Have others experienced this?
I don't have A7Cii but I think that's normal for current gen of Sony cameras (easiest way to identify -> those having the new menu)...
cameraman72 wrote:
The battery life on the A7Cii seems considerably worse than my A9ii. It went down 5 percent in about 10 minutes while I was going through the customization menus.
Have others experienced this?
I've noticed that initial setup used quite much battery on my A7CII and I think I saw similar on my A7C. In daily use A7CII battery life has been fine though, although slightly less than my A7C. Not noticeably different from my original A9.
Juha Kannisto wrote:
I've noticed that initial setup used quite much battery on my A7CII and I think I saw similar on my A7C. In daily use A7CII battery life has been fine though, although slightly less than my A7C. Not noticeably different from my original A9.
Interesting, do you mean the number of photos or the time the camera is used that causes similar battery drain?
I moved from A7III (which I think is very similar in power consumption to A7C) to A1 (which seems to have similar power usage as A7RV from what I've read) and I noticed considerable battery usage increase on my regular walks with the dog (or on summer "one day" trips where I managed to drain 2 batteries which would be rather difficult with A7III) ...
j4nu wrote:
Interesting, do you mean the number of photos or the time the camera is used that causes similar battery drain?
I moved from A7III (which I think is very similar in power consumption to A7C) to A1 (which seems to have similar power usage as A7RV from what I've read) and I noticed considerable battery usage increase on my regular walks with the dog (or on summer "one day" trips where I managed to drain 2 batteries which would be rather difficult with A7III) ...
I have not needed a 2nd battery with my A7CII so far (although I have 2 or 3 extras in total that I acquired with my previous cameras), one battery has been enough for any single day use (with more than 1000 single shots), but I do notice that the battery drain is a bit faster in terms of number of shots taken than it did on my A7C. I think A7C had the best battery life of any Sony FF mirrorless camera I've had so far (A7R, A7II, A9, A7C, A7CII).
Juha Kannisto wrote:
I have not needed a 2nd battery with my A7CII so far (although I have 2 or 3 extras in total that I acquired with my previous cameras), one battery has been enough for any single day use (with more than 1000 single shots), but I do notice that the battery drain is a bit faster in terms of number of shots taken than it did on my A7C. I think A7C had the best battery life of any Sony FF mirrorless camera I've had so far (A7R, A7II, A9, A7C, A7CII).
Wow! Over 1k single shots and a full day of use (that would be ~8h of taging along the camera on my day) on A7CII, that's amazing.
I think I have to take back what I said about battery consumption then.
I don't think I've ever managed to get into 4 digits on A7III, let alone A1 (sans burst though), on a single battery...
I had an A9 which I sold in favor of an A7c ii. Reasons being I had no real use of blackout free continuous and I wished for a camera and lens combo that I could fit in a jacket pocket.
Mission accomplished. The A7c ii has good enough af, I haven't found a significant different between it and the A9 though to be fair I'm not the most heavy duty type of user. The cat subject recognition (which the A9 does not have) can get stuck at the star-shaped holes of a candle holder right beside the cat or other odd things, and the A9 sometimes would not pick out a bird among branches. In both scenarios it's Get better at using your equipment
Only the limitations of the e-shutter in comparison feels like half a step back. In all other aspects the A7c ii fits me better; it's easier to pick up and bring with and it doesn't have to be a sports camera.
I haven't noticed much of a diff in battery drain. Both cameras are worlds apart from my A7rii.
An example of finding the right tool for the job. What lenses do you use?
kaldur wrote:
I had an A9 which I sold in favor of an A7c ii. Reasons being I had no real use of blackout free continuous and I wished for a camera and lens combo that I could fit in a jacket pocket.
Mission accomplished. The A7c ii has good enough af, I haven't found a significant different between it and the A9 though to be fair I'm not the most heavy duty type of user. The cat subject recognition (which the A9 does not have) can get stuck at the star-shaped holes of a candle holder right beside the cat or other odd things, and the A9 sometimes would not pick out a bird among branches. In both scenarios it's Get better at using your equipment
Only the limitations of the e-shutter in comparison feels like half a step back. In all other aspects the A7c ii fits me better; it's easier to pick up and bring with and it doesn't have to be a sports camera.
I haven't noticed much of a diff in battery drain. Both cameras are worlds apart from my A7rii. ...Show more →
Do you regularly get 1k+ shots on a single battery (not bursts though) throughout the day on A7CII?
If so, that would be a reason for me to consider adding it to my stable .
Now I have enough time with A7c II to comment how it compares to A9.
Taking camera out to home and photowalk from photo store is so revealing. I have slightly mixed feelings about A7c II. It is small as expected, but also "cheap" compared to A9 (and other Sony cameras I have had/used). The slightly underwhelming viewfinder adds to the less than stellar touch in A7c II. However, build quality is sure fine and in practice "cheap" translates also to "light", so there is a positive flip side.
Snappy performance was a very positive surprise. Despite being only C-series A7c II reponds very quickly in all photo scenarios. It is not only af. With new menus and incrementally imporved user friendly small details, the impression of tech side of this camera is extremely positive. I have no problems with Sony not inclyding joy stick in this one.
However, I am still happy that I kept my good old A9, it is a fun camera to use and definitely a classic. I am also happy that I did not invest in more to the expensive A7c r. I acquired A7c II also because I had no practical video camera (to complement iPhone). Time will tell how much video I shoot now that I have a practical camera for it.
An update and change of mind. After using the A7c II for over a week in different kind of scenarios from portraits to bird photography, I have come to conclusion that A9 may go. I am actually a little surprised how I came to this, but the new tech is just so good.
Frankly, A9 is still a very good camera. Slightly larger size, better blackout free EVF, conventional up tilting LCD etc. For photography it feels like. A tool despite some drawbacks such as small af-button. And I think stacked sensors are the future (before global sensors).
A7c II shooting experience is a small downer with small EVF, but the technology is just so much better, especially AF and IBIS. Improved image quality is a plus. I cannot get over those many incremental improvements, they make a real difference
tuomkok wrote:
An update and change of mind. After using the A7c II for over a week in different kind of scenarios from portraits to bird photography, I have come to conclusion that A9 may go. I am actually a little surprised how I came to this, but the new tech is just so good.
Frankly, A9 is still a very good camera. Slightly larger size, better blackout free EVF, conventional up tilting LCD etc. For photography it feels like. A tool despite some drawbacks such as small af-button. And I think stacked sensors are the future (before global sensors).
A7c II shooting experience is a small downer with small EVF, but the technology is just so much better, especially AF and IBIS. Improved image quality is a plus. I cannot get over those many incremental improvements, they make a real difference ...Show more →
I went back and forth on the exact issue that you did. The first time, back in September, I decided in favor of the A7CII but also kept my A9 (it is the Sony camera I have had the longest while buying and selling 4-5 other Sony full-frame cameras). The second time, in March, I decided in favor of the A9 and sold my A7CII. They are both superb cameras. I think they have different strengths but very similar appeal with the differences mattering in different ways to different photographers. I haven't found the autofocus, Eye-AF, or IBIS to be significantly different between the two, but your experience has been different. For me, the stacked sensor of the A9 was a huge difference and that was the deciding factor. No more banding, silent shutter all the time, and no rolling shutter. I was just looking at a set of photographs taken with my A7CII in Japan in November, and some of the best shots were ruined by LED banding and by distortions of rolling shutter of fast-moving people. On the A9, none of that happens. But it matters what and how you shoot--that makes the various trade-offs between the two cameras more or less significant for a particular photographer.
So it sounds like if I want a camera that is going to find eye/faces quickly and accurately the new AI AF system might edge out the original A9?
For the most part, when I want autofocus it is for shooting photos of people so the eye AF is a bigger factor for me than overall tracking speed. Not sure if I want the compact form factor so I may wait and see when the A7V eventually shows up.
formula4speed wrote:
So it sounds like if I want a camera that is going to find eye/faces quickly and accurately the new AI AF system might edge out the original A9?
For the most part, when I want autofocus it is for shooting photos of people so the eye AF is a bigger factor for me than overall tracking speed. Not sure if I want the compact form factor so I may wait and see when the A7V eventually shows up.
