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Archive 2024 · 16-35 f/4.0 PZ vs 16-35 f/2.8 GM II

  
 
moby59
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p.1 #1 · 16-35 f/4.0 PZ vs 16-35 f/2.8 GM II


The 16-35 is my go to lens for hiking.

I used to have the f/2.8 which I really liked, but hated the weight (I carry my A7RIII + lens on a peak design capture clip). I sold it last year in anticipation of the GMII version.

I briefly tried the 20-70 f/4.0 as a "single lens" solution, I liked it (light, quite sharp, ...) but was not 100% satisfied with it (distortion that makes mushy corners after correction, field curvature, 20mm is a bit to narrow for me, lens hood that detach itself...) that was too much for such a pricey lens, so I returned it.

I bought the Tamron 50-400 as my long lens, I will probably only carry it when hiking with my wife (as I can carry more weight to be slower so she can keep up the pace with me ) When I'll be alone, I'm not sure, but my only other lens will probably be a 85mm or something qui light (70-300 ? 70-350 APS-C ?)

In may I will start my hiking season, so it's time to think about a new lens, it seems that I'm ready for a new 16-35.

The PZ seems a better choice at first, because of the weight/size/price and the fact that during the day f/2.8 is not a requirement but...

- is a PZ lens using more battery?

- I'm not sure about the corner sharpness of the PZ, as - like the 20-70) it heavily relies ont the software correction of the distortion.

- the PZ is the sharpest at f/4.0, which is far from ideal (f/11.0 is often useful for landscape, especially when you don't use a tripod and don't want to focus stack (When will Lightroom natively support focus stacking at last!?!)

- f/2.8 comes in handy at night for a few star shots, and for uses other than hiking (indoor for example)

- At the same time the f/2.8 seems far from perfect for landscape use (field curvature?) and is an expensive lens.

- The future 16-25 f/2.8 does not seem to be a good fit for me: I already had a 12-24 f/4.0 a few years ago and always disliked the fact to be limited at 24 as it means that I too often needed to change to a longer lens.

So I'm a bit lost, what do you think?

Edited on Mar 07, 2024 at 03:01 PM · View previous versions



Mar 07, 2024 at 02:55 PM
kevphoto
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p.1 #2 · 16-35 f/4.0 PZ vs 16-35 f/2.8 GM II


I have not used the f/2.8 version--as a hiker I've always preferred the f/4 version for size/weight. I find the PZ to be an excellent lens and one I use often when hiking. I don't find the zoom affects battery life, and I haven't found it to be unsharp at landscape apertures. It's really a very nice lens, and the size and internal zooming are nice (as is the aperture ring). I think it would pair really well with the Tamron 50-400 (I haven't hiked with that combo yet, but as a travel set, I think it would be great).

Kevin



Mar 07, 2024 at 03:00 PM
DavidBM
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p.1 #3 · 16-35 f/4.0 PZ vs 16-35 f/2.8 GM II


moby59 wrote:
The 16-35 is my go to lens for hiking.

I used to have the f/2.8 which I really liked, but hated the weight (I carry my A7RIII + lens on a peak design capture clip). I sold it last year in anticipation of the GMII version.

I briefly tried the 20-70 f/4.0 as a "single lens" solution, I liked it (light, quite sharp, ...) but was not 100% satisfied with it (distortion that makes mushy corners after correction, field curvature, 20mm is a bit to narrow for me, lens hood that detach itself...) that was too much for such a pricey
...Show more

I use the PZ for hiking.
Frankly I’m amazed by how good it is, even after distortion correction in the outer field. It has “excess” resolution in the outer field to account for this. I have noticed no effect on battery.
And it’s gloriously light. And, for landscape sometimes leaving distortion uncorrected is fine, and you get a wider than 16mm AOV (the lens is designed to give the AOV of a 16 after correction)

And for hiking, and for very wide, I don’t care about speed. There are few images that would look better with thinner DOF from a lens like this (except maybe people at 35mm).

This lens is making my Loxia 21 and 25 look a bit unhappy in the cabinet…



Mar 07, 2024 at 03:22 PM
moby59
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p.1 #4 · 16-35 f/4.0 PZ vs 16-35 f/2.8 GM II


I finally bought the PZ, I just briefly tried it at home, and as with the 20-70 the distortion correction introduces weird things (tearing?) in the corners, but it seems a little less annoying than on the 20-70 at 20mm.
I tried for example with roof tiles in one corners, and after the correction they really seem... stretched.

And yes, for landscapes, I can probably leave the correction off, manually correct the vignetting if needed, and enjoy the incredible sharpness of those uncorrected corners! I am quite amazed!

First hike in a few days. I'll tell how it went.

Thanks for the feedback you provided.



Jun 05, 2024 at 02:16 PM
itai195
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p.1 #5 · 16-35 f/4.0 PZ vs 16-35 f/2.8 GM II


Enjoy the PZ! It is a remarkable lens in many ways.

I'm actually in the midst of making the opposite move. Have had the PZ for a while, and I am happy enough with the image quality but I miss having a manual zoom and the faster aperture. I am not a devoted astro photographer, or else I'd probably carry wide primes, but I do value having that extra stop on occasion. What drives me more crazy is that I just don't like using the power zoom in a general use lens. Sony have done a remarkable job of making it feel almost as good as a manual zoom, kudos there. But I like to be able to tell at a glance where I'm zoomed to, and I like to have the muscle memory that only a manual zoom can provide. Of course I'd love a lighter and smaller lens than the GM II, but it is quite a remarkably small and light lens for what it is.



Jun 05, 2024 at 03:38 PM
mojoh
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p.1 #6 · 16-35 f/4.0 PZ vs 16-35 f/2.8 GM II


I read elsewhere that removal of the manual zoom mechanism helped reduce the PZ’s weight. So I try to live with it.

If that had been a deal breaker for me, I would have chosen the new lighter 16-25/2.8 instead of the GM II. But then, I would need to stop down to f4 to get back the corner sharpness of the PZ as well as sacrifice the extra 10mm reach.



Jun 05, 2024 at 06:50 PM
Aztatlan
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p.1 #7 · 16-35 f/4.0 PZ vs 16-35 f/2.8 GM II


I really like the PZ. For the weight it delivers extremely good IQ, and even removing the 'for the weight' disclaimer the IQ is really good especially stopped down a bit. I don't typically correct distortion for landscapes, unless there are significant straight lines. It's significantly sharper in the corners uncorrected, although is still acceptable after correction.


Jun 05, 2024 at 07:13 PM
Charlie N
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p.1 #8 · 16-35 f/4.0 PZ vs 16-35 f/2.8 GM II


the GMii feels like double the size of the PZ, the size factor is enormous...... that said, the GMii, the PZ, the 16-25G are all great lenses. I would not use the GMii for travel personally, it makes the 20-70 feel small.


Jun 05, 2024 at 07:55 PM
rjensen11
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p.1 #9 · 16-35 f/4.0 PZ vs 16-35 f/2.8 GM II




itai195 wrote:
I miss having a manual zoom and the faster aperture.


I must be missing something. I have the 16-35 PZ and I can zoom with either the switch or manually with the zoom ring. Why do people say they miss the manual zoom?



Jun 05, 2024 at 09:40 PM
moby59
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p.1 #10 · 16-35 f/4.0 PZ vs 16-35 f/2.8 GM II


rjensen11 wrote:
I must be missing something. I have the 16-35 PZ and I can zoom with either the switch or manually with the zoom ring. Why do people say they miss the manual zoom?


I find that the PZ zoom ring needs a lot of rotation (1/4th of a turn) to go from 16 to 35mm, and I don't think you can adjust that. It seems more around 1/6th of a turn on the f/2.8.

And as others explained before, you don't know the focal you are currently at. For example with a manual zoom, you grab your camera in front of a landscape, peaks at the current FL, turn its power on (the camera not the landscape ) and already know that you are at 16mm so it is the widest you can get.
With a PZ lens, you don't know, so you have to turn the zoom ring to discover what FL you're at.

Edited on Jun 06, 2024 at 01:28 AM · View previous versions



Jun 06, 2024 at 12:40 AM
pierrep69
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p.1 #11 · 16-35 f/4.0 PZ vs 16-35 f/2.8 GM II


I think what's great is we all get what we desire.

IQ wise, if you come from the PZ, the GMII may be disappointing because it's not really better than the PZ at f4.

Size-wise, it's much bigger, so again, it's a bit disappointing if you were expecting to get better IQ while sacrificing a bit of size.

Now, there are some advantages:
- f2.8
- close focus at 35mm
- zoom is indeed manual (though I'm a bit perplexed at needing to know what FL you are at to compose, like a good composition at 17mm is not good enough because it's not 16mm?), which has a different feeling (I thought I'd care a lot for that, I actually almost prefer the PZ)
- the PZ has way more distortion, though you don't see it after correction (and unless you shoot raw and publish raw pics, I think it shouldn't be an issue, especially as after correction, the edges are still approx. the same as the GMII, if not totally the same)
- Obviously, it's a GM, so you get the feeling you cannot get better (at least for 2 or 3 years).

One thing to keep in mind is that there is some copy variation for all lenses, and my experience was that my PZ was in the end better than the GMII I got, but I feel I had a bad GMII on one side (and probably better on the other side). When switching, if you have a solid version of the PZ, consider you might get an average version of the GMII which will be a disappointment.

I'd have expected GM lenses to be better on this, but that's not the case, unfortunately.



Jun 06, 2024 at 12:53 AM
chad hites
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p.1 #12 · 16-35 f/4.0 PZ vs 16-35 f/2.8 GM II


I had the orginal 16-35 2.8GM and didn't love it. I thought it was too big and heavy for the performance. I moved to the 16-35 PZ and REALLY like that lens. It is more than sharp enough for me. I've thought about trying the 16-35 GM II but I am so happy with the performance, size and weight of the PZ I just can't justify the GM II price. To be fair, I don't need 2.8 for how I use 16mm.

Both of these galleries are shot with the 16-35 PZ if you would like to take a look at what I get from it.
https://www.chadhites.com/ClientDownload/Schwartz-Group
https://www.chadhites.com/Viva-Las-Vegas/Strip-Walk-III



Jun 06, 2024 at 08:46 AM
InFocus2014
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p.1 #13 · 16-35 f/4.0 PZ vs 16-35 f/2.8 GM II


pierrep69 wrote:
I think what's great is we all get what we desire.

IQ wise, if you come from the PZ, the GMII may be disappointing because it's not really better than the PZ at f4.

Size-wise, it's much bigger, so again, it's a bit disappointing if you were expecting to get better IQ while sacrificing a bit of size.

Now, there are some advantages:
- f2.8
- close focus at 35mm
- zoom is indeed manual (though I'm a bit perplexed at needing to know what FL you are at to compose, like a good composition at 17mm is not good enough because it's not 16mm?), which
...Show more


I moved from the Sony Zeiss 16-35mm f4, to the GM 16-35mm ff2.8 to the PZ 16-35mm f4, then, finally, to the GM 16-35mm f2.8 II.

I mostly agree that, at f4 the PZ and GM II lenses are quite similar in terms of sharpness. At 35mm, f4, however, my GM II is noticeably sharper - particularly in the outer frame. When shooting on the A7R5, I often crop 35mm, so I find the difference noticeable. Also, the distortions on the PZ lens are fairly wild; and, camera corrections do create a bit of pixel-level degradation, mostly seen in the outer frame... admittedly only noticed by a few technical perfectionists, like myself.

While I found the PZ lens to be mostly outstanding, I never warmed-up to not having the FL's on the lens barrel and I really missed f2.8 for interiors and evening shooting.





Lens performance table from SonyAlpha.blog



Edited on Jun 06, 2024 at 12:13 PM · View previous versions



Jun 06, 2024 at 09:04 AM
itai195
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p.1 #14 · 16-35 f/4.0 PZ vs 16-35 f/2.8 GM II


Yes there’s a zoom ring, but the zoom action is not mechanically coupled to it. As a result, you can’t see at a glance what focal length you’re zoomed to and you don’t quite get to zoom by feel like you can on a mechanical lens. It’s not a deal breaker for many folks or situations, but at times it’s been annoying enough to me to put me off the lens.

rjensen11 wrote:
I must be missing something. I have the 16-35 PZ and I can zoom with either the switch or manually with the zoom ring. Why do people say they miss the manual zoom?




Jun 06, 2024 at 10:20 AM
moby59
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p.1 #15 · 16-35 f/4.0 PZ vs 16-35 f/2.8 GM II


I'm back from my first hike with the 16-35 PZ, that was interesting.
I'm back with the range I'm used to (vs the 20-70) and I much prefer that.
The PZ was really really weird at the beginning, for a very simple thing: you don't know in which direction to turn the ring to zoom or dezoom. That's something you think you have muscle memory for, but in fact I suppose that I often look at the lens barrel before puting the camera to my eye, and so I know what focal length I'm at and in which direction to turn to move to the focal I think I need for the picture I have in mind.
The other thing is IMHO a bad design move to put the zoom ring so close (and so thin) to the focus ring. I often turned "a ring" and nothing happened.

After a while it started to feel a little less weird but not exactly pleasing.

The f/4.0 was not an issue as almost all of my pictures were outside, some even on a tripod...

I really enjoyed the weight and compactness of the lens. I was walking with the 50-400 in my backpack, and the times I kept it attached to my a7rIII on my shoulder strap I really felt the huge weight of the Tamron lens!

Back home, in lightroom, the situation is also two fold:
- for the vast majority of the pictures, everything is perfect.
- for those 16mm landscapes with "everything in focus" the stretched corners are really bad. So in the end I disabled the correction and only used a small crop on some pictures where the dark corners were really obvious (against the sky for example). I haven't found a vignetting correction that works without making the corners even weirder (light-dark-light). The IQ in the corners is way better without correction.

In conclusion, as I know that the weight and size are only achievable because of the PZ and the heavy distortion I find that this lens is a good compromise. Not perfect, but a very good solution to lighten my pack AND keep a very high quality for most of my landscapes.



Jun 13, 2024 at 10:32 AM
Aztatlan
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p.1 #16 · 16-35 f/4.0 PZ vs 16-35 f/2.8 GM II




moby59 wrote:
I'm back from my first hike with the 16-35 PZ, that was interesting.
I'm back with the range I'm used to (vs the 20-70) and I much prefer that.
The PZ was really really weird at the beginning, for a very simple thing: you don't know in which direction to turn the ring to zoom or dezoom. That's something you think you have muscle memory for, but in fact I suppose that I often look at the lens barrel before puting the camera to my eye, and so I know what focal length I'm at and in which direction to turn to
...Show more
My tip for you for a landscape where you may want to correct vignetting in the sky but leave the corners uncorrected for the landscape portion - have the best of both worlds. Blend the sky from a corrected frame with the uncorrected frame of the landscape. Don’t need corner sharpness in the sky, will just require a little finesse in Photoshop to blend them.




Jun 13, 2024 at 04:42 PM
moby59
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p.1 #17 · 16-35 f/4.0 PZ vs 16-35 f/2.8 GM II


Aztatlan wrote:
My tip for you for a landscape where you may want to correct vignetting in the sky but leave the corners uncorrected for the landscape portion - have the best of both worlds. Blend the sky from a corrected frame with the uncorrected frame of the landscape. Don’t need corner sharpness in the sky, will just require a little finesse in Photoshop to blend them.



That's a clever idea. Just a little bit annoying to have to go through photoshop. Maybe to use only for very specific cases.
Another more simple solution would be to clone a part or the sky in the corners in LR. Way faster especially if the sky doesn"t have details/clouds.



Jun 14, 2024 at 12:43 AM





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