But if it was off, then you can turn it off in LR? So that's the rub...the Megadep is forcing it to "on" and therefore LR honors it and won't let you turn it off. That's why snapsy says he has to strip it out of the RAW.
Got it....I think....
molson wrote:
If it's on in the camera, it's forced on in LR as well.
I always look.....I may regret that I did, but I do. Granted I usually have a good idea about that before I purchase a lens, but it can be eye opening to see it first hand on shots that you've taken.
RoamingScott wrote:
There are all sorts of toggle-able options for in-camera-correction on Nikon bodies. You might disabling all of them and seeing if things improve.
I think most people are pretty ignorant of how much software correction is happening these days for cheaper lenses, as this thread illustrates.
tsdevine wrote:
I always look.....I may regret that I did, but I do. Granted I usually have a good idea about that before I purchase a lens, but it can be eye opening to see it first hand on shots that you've taken.
It's also very useful to understand where NOT to put anything of potential interest, as those corrected zones tend to be weaker IQ wise.
molson wrote:
I guess if they didn't do this with the consumer-grade lenses, they would get too many complaints about the lenses.
Nikon started with one of their first Z lens, 14-30 f/4S. That profile can't be disabled in LR. And once there was the first one, there will be many. I think in this case, the adapter gets the profile from the lens and passes to the camera. Nikon cameras probably prevent any profiles to be disabled unless specially coded. I think Nikon instructed Adobe to not allow disabling the profile unless specifically allowed in the raw file from the camera. I consider that to be real cheating and hope Sony will never go that route.
tsdevine wrote:
I think with Sony lenses like the 20-70 G and 24-105 G they don't ever really let you "turn off" distortion correction in camera. But the RAW file is truly the RAW file.....and the correction profile is embedded and it's turned on automatically in Lightroom. For other lenses you actually can turn it off in camera, and it's really off...like it's off even when looking through the EVF.
With Canon lenses using Sigma's adapter, it says that the built in profile is applied, but I can always pick the actual profile for whatever lens I'm using.
For the consumer grade Nikon lenses that sort of force correction to be on...can you turn it off in Lightroom to see the true uncorrected view? Or is it sort of forced on in Lightroom too?
Both ACR (Photoshop) and LR honor Nikon's apparent request to prevent users from disabling the correction profiles. The only way is to strip them from the raw file prior to import.
I kind of thought it was that way with Sony too...but I can turn off the profile in LR for the 20-70. I mean not across the board, but the ones that have a pretty strong level of correction required, which I think the 20-70 falls into that category.
snapsy wrote:
Both ACR (Photoshop) and LR honor Nikon's apparent request to prevent users from disabling the correction profiles. The only way is to strip them from the raw file prior to import.
RoamingScott wrote:
There are all sorts of toggle-able options for in-camera-correction on Nikon bodies. You might disabling all of them and seeing if things improve.
I think most people are pretty ignorant of how much software correction is happening these days for cheaper lenses, as this thread illustrates.
I don't think this thread's finding is what you made it sound to be. The main finding is purely optical on the effect of stack filters.
The side finding is Nikon "cheats" by insisting on turning on profiles all the time, except on very few of its own lens.
Nikon / Adobe forcing correction profiles in LR from Nikon Z cameras have been known for a long time. I wish it was an on by default instead of a profile you can not adjust or remove. I have had a few photos where I would have liked to have adjusted the vignetting correction on but could not.
There is a good case to be made for making lens corrections part of modern day optical formulas, but at the same time shouldn't the user still be in control?
Good ol ignorant hand wringing. Brands do this to protect themselves because of the level of correction that MUST happen to the RAW file to make it useable.
RoamingScott wrote:
Good ol ignorant hand wringing. Brands do this to protect themselves because of the level of correction that MUST happen to the RAW file to make it useable.
No one is objecting to profiles. It can be applied as default too. All people are asking is that profile can be disabled in LR. I believe so far Nikon's raw files from Z cameras are the only ones that the profile can't be undone. Are you saying on the raw files from Sony cameras with the 16-35 PZ lens, the profile can't be reversed (disabled) in LR after it's been applied as default? I thought in LR, you can always toggle the CA switch, as well as distortion/vignetting profile on Sony raw files.
And I would also say CA is less an issue compared to distortion and vignetting. Pretty much no one is going to adjust CA manually, but distortion and vignetting, there are certainly situations where people want to adjust themselves, or maybe even skip the adjustments.
Edit, also I checked my Sony camera, CA compensation can be turned off in camera which makes what you brought a moot point.
I don't believe you can toggle vignetting correction after the fact on Sony, I believe that it is baked (literally impact the pixel level intensity) in the RAW file. So you can turn if off in the camera...but if you turn it on, you'll have to add vignette pseudo manually later.
tctmp wrote:
No one is objecting to profiles. It can be applied as default too. All people are asking is that profile can be disabled in LR. I believe so far Nikon's raw files from Z cameras are the only ones that the profile can't be undone. Are you saying on the raw files from Sony cameras with the 16-35 PZ lens, the profile can't be reversed (disabled) in LR after it's been applied as default? I thought in LR, you can always toggle the CA switch, as well as distortion/vignetting profile on Sony raw files.
And I would also say CA is less an issue compared to distortion and vignetting. Pretty much no one is going to adjust CA manually, but distortion and vignetting, there are certainly situations where people want to adjust themselves, or maybe even skip the adjustments. ...Show more →
There were also those weird rings related to vignetting correction, that appeared when a photo was pushed a few stops. Those seem to have disappeared on new bodies though.
The key take away from this thread is:
You need a Sony body to use Sony fast wides .
It's a bit puzzling that nobody noticed it before...
tsdevine wrote:
I don't believe you can toggle vignetting correction after the fact on Sony, I believe that it is baked (literally impact the pixel level intensity ) in the RAW file. So you can turn if off in the camera...but if you turn it on, you'll have to add vignette pseudo manually later.
tsdevine wrote:
I don't believe you can toggle vignetting correction after the fact on Sony, I believe that it is baked (literally impact the pixel level intensity) in the RAW file. So you can turn if off in the camera...but if you turn it on, you'll have to add vignette pseudo manually later.
From my understanding, profile is never baked in the raw file values. They are attached to raw file, yes, but the application of the profile is done by the tools such as LR. That's even the case in Nikon raw files.
We are talking about raw file from Sony cameras, right? In LR, under Lens Corrections panel, there are two check boxes "Remove CA" and "Enable Profile Corrections", right? If you uncheck "Enable Profile Corrections", then both distortion and vignetting profiles should be disabled. Or are you saying that "enable profile corrections" are grayed out for you in your Sony camera raw file so that you can't uncheck it?
Yes, I've been a Sony shooter for a long time, but I've had shading correction off in camera for an eternity, so it's very possible I'm wrong.
So I'll take that back.....unless someone else has a good reference to say otherwise.
tctmp wrote:
From my understanding, profile is never baked in the raw file values. They are attached to raw file, yes, but the application of the profile is done by the tools such as LR. That's even the case in Nikon raw files.
We are talking about raw file from Sony cameras, right? In LR, under Lens Corrections panel, there are two check boxes "Remove CA" and "Enable Profile Corrections", right? If you uncheck "Enable Profile Corrections", then both distortion and vignetting profiles should be disabled. Or are you saying that "enable profile corrections" are grayed out for you in your Sony camera raw file so that you can't uncheck it? ...Show more →
tsdevine wrote:
Yes, I've been a Sony shooter for a long time, but I've had shading correction off in camera for an eternity, so it's very possible I'm wrong.
So I'll take that back.....unless someone else has a good reference to say otherwise.
Vignetting correction is baked-in (if enabled in-cam).
I'm not sure about CA, but AFAIK it's impossible to disable the profile in LR if it's there in the RAW file (except for stripping the file of course)...
j4nu wrote:
Vignetting correction is baked-in (if enabled in-cam).
I'm not sure about CA, but AFAIK it's impossible to disable the profile in LR if it's there in the RAW file (except for stripping the file of course)...
Ok, then Tim is right. I never have those enabled in camera, that could explain why. I only check/uncheck those lens corrections boxes after importing depending on the situations. The question though, is there any sony camera/lens combination that those distortion/vignetting corrections can not be disabled in camera? I doubt there is any.
Is it possible that the corner smear is astigmatism and automatically corrected in Sony body’s? If so, no hope to get this lens work well outside of Sony. If it is adapter, there may be other adapters that somehow works ok…. I am still trying to see if there is a way to make this lens work well on Nikon body……
Lensrentals test of the Sony 20mm G on an optical bench found it to have very high MTF and almost no astigmatism. So its sharpness on a Sony body is not due to software correction.
akul wrote:
Is it possible that the corner smear is astigmatism and automatically corrected in Sony body’s? If so, no hope to get this lens work well outside of Sony. If it is adapter, there may be other adapters that somehow works ok…. I am still trying to see if there is a way to make this lens work well on Nikon body……
Luka
There's no magic anti-astigmatism wand Sony can waive over their files. In-built correction could theoretically crop off part of the field of view with severe astigmatism (which is effectively what distortion correction does in that once applied there is a drop in FOV) but from OPs crops it is evident this is not what is occurring. There is a slight FOV difference between the two cameras, which may come down to in-built corrections not applying (unsure) but areas of the frame that are sharp on Sony are not on Nikon.
There is no chance whatsoever this is in any way related to lens profiles or lack thereof on Nikon. It is, without any doubt at all, related to either the thickness of the adapter being slightly too thin for the Sony flange distance or it is related to the sensor cover glass thickness difference. Possibly a combination of both. If there are any documented instances online of the 20/1.8G being sharp on the same Nikon body, one can probably then conclude it is the adapter.
The other crops posted later by OP showing the behaviour of the lens when focus is done on the left side as compared to the centre makes it clear there is a strong induced field curvature. This can happen if the adapter is too thin, and also can happen if the lens is designed for a specific thickness of cover glass.
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