There are other hybrids with excellent video support that don't share the Z8/Z9's magnified lag. It's not a function of the video logic but the absence of a proper sensor windowed readout-mode, which oddly Nikon has never implemented (or at least used) on any of their sensors/cameras.
snapsy wrote:
There are other hybrids with excellent video support that don't share the Z8/Z9's magnified lag. It's not a function of the video logic but the absence of a proper sensor windowed readout-mode, which oddly Nikon has never implemented (or at least used) on any of their sensors/cameras.
Doesn't change the crux of my statement. You're getting full sensor readout in zoom mode where you're getting a binned mode in normal view. I would think "fixing" this would be a fairly large engineering project on Nikon's part.
RoamingScott wrote:
Doesn't change the crux of my statement. You're getting full sensor readout in zoom mode where you're getting a binned mode in normal view. I would think "fixing" this would be a fairly large engineering project on Nikon's part.
Having a full-sensor readout for video mode is not mutually exclusive with a 1:1 windowed readout mode for stills. Canon, Sony, and Panasonic all have both.
i'm not sure i would take that guy's word for it. he says:
"the sensors _typically_ switch to a full-readout mode, where they read every single individual pixel and then crop from that. If they didn't, it would enhance the artifacts from skipping/binning pixels."
key word _typically_ and didn't say specific to Nikon..........and no source of information.
also assuming that's true then why does the Sony A7rIV (a higher MP camera) not have this issue (as demonstrated by @snapsy)?
dalegaspi wrote:
i'm not sure i would take that guy's word for it. he says:
"the sensors _typically_ switch to a full-readout mode, where they read every single individual pixel and then crop from that. If they didn't, it would enhance the artifacts from skipping/binning pixels."
key word _typically_ and didn't say specific to Nikon..........and no source of information.
also assuming that's true then why does the Sony A7rIV (a higher MP camera) not have this issue (as demonstrated by @snapsy@)?
Every Nikon since the Z6/Z7 display this behavior, so it's definitely the way that Nikon is programming the data pipelines and how they are displaying data flowing from the sensor.
Any change in this behavior will require a rewrite of that display pipeline. None of this means it's impossible, it just means Nikon has never focused on it on Z bodies.
dalegaspi wrote:
i'm not sure i would take that guy's word for it. he says:
"the sensors _typically_ switch to a full-readout mode, where they read every single individual pixel and then crop from that. If they didn't, it would enhance the artifacts from skipping/binning pixels."
key word _typically_ and didn't say specific to Nikon..........and no source of information.
also assuming that's true then why does the Sony A7rIV (a higher MP camera) not have this issue (as demonstrated by @snapsy@)?
Sony Exmor's have a 1:1 windowed readout mode that is documented in their data sheets. There is no other way to get 30 fps at full resolution and high bit depth without using such a mode since most sensors can't read the full sensor at that rate and bit depth, at least not before a generation or two ago.
RoamingScott wrote:
Every Nikon since the Z6/Z7 display this behavior, so it's definitely the way that Nikon is programming the data pipelines and how they are displaying data flowing from the sensor.
where are you getting this information?
just because the older cameras does it a certain way is not a guarantee a newer ones does the same thing, unless you have information that shows this fact.
dalegaspi wrote:
where are you getting this information?
just because the older cameras does it a certain way is not a guarantee a newer ones does the same thing, unless you have information that shows this fact.
Try any FF Z camera and you'll see the exact same behavior. This is where I'm getting this information.
The fact that Z6 to Z9 works the same way means that Nikon has not changed their methodology of displaying full readout in zoom mode.
RoamingScott wrote:
Try any FF Z camera and you'll see the exact same behavior. This is where I'm getting this information.
The fact that Z6 to Z9 works the same way means that Nikon has not changed their methodology of displaying full readout in zoom mode.
don't take this the wrong way but since we're discussing technical details on what's causing lag a real source of information is warranted rather than an inferred one.
you are probably not wrong but given z9 has much more advanced hardware i can't jjust accept that lag cannot be fixed. and i would prefer an empirical proof of why it's not possible.
dalegaspi wrote:
don't take this the wrong way but since we're discussing technical details on what's causing lag a real source of information is warranted rather than an inferred one.
you are probably not wrong but given z9 has much more advanced hardware i can't jjust accept that lag cannot be fixed. and i would prefer an empirical proof of why it's not possible.
I never said it couldn't be fixed. I said Nikon clearly has not prioritized this functionality as it runs the same exact way on multiple generations containing CPUs and data pipelines of various capabilities. Please take 2 seconds to read correctly instead of being pissy at me.
RoamingScott wrote:
I never said it couldn't be fixed. I said Nikon clearly has not prioritized this functionality as it runs the same exact way on multiple generations containing CPUs and data pipelines of various capabilities. Please take 2 seconds to read correctly instead of being pissy at me.
snapsy wrote:
Sony Exmor's have a 1:1 windowed readout mode that is documented in their data sheets. There is no other way to get 30 fps at full resolution and high bit depth without using such a mode since most sensors can't read the full sensor at that rate and bit depth, at least not before a generation or two ago.
oh, i see..thanks.. and i guess Nikon's processor doesn't have this 1:1 windowed readout mode? is this published somewhere? but i guess it is plausible and a better explanation. but what about Panasonic...i see that its lag is just as good as Sony's?
dalegaspi wrote:
oh, i see..thanks.. and i guess Nikon's processor doesn't have this 1:1 windowed readout mode? is this published somewhere? but i guess it is plausible and a better explanation. but what about Panasonic...i see that its lag is just as good as Sony's?
The sensor would need to support it, and then firmware would need to use that mode of the readout. Many of Nikon's past cameras have used sensors based on Sony's Exmor base design but I don't recall if any of Nikon's DSLRs actually had a good LV magnified implementation that use it.
