p.1 #1 · Do you think shutter count matters on mirrorless bodies
I am putting this question here because I inquired about an R5 body, but the question pertains to all mirrorless bodies
Usually in the Buy and Sell section of this site, if someone is selling a camera body and has not already posted the shutter count, then one of the first questions asked is "What is the shutter count".
A month or so ago I looked at a Canon R5 body from MPB and inquired about the shutter count. I was told by them that they do not include that info for mirrorless bodies because:
1-The counts are usually very inaccurate
2-The count does not matter on a mirrorless body
I do understand that with electronic shutters this does change things, but this very much surprised me! Not everyone uses ONLY the electronic shutter only! I realize the struggles with finding shutter use info on a Canon body if you do not live in the Apple universe, but it still surprised me. I am in the camp of the info DOES matter, but maybe I am way off base here.
So my question to all of you is this: Is MPB right?
p.1 #2 · Do you think shutter count matters on mirrorless bodies
Since the actual shutter is mechanical, the shutter count is relevant as a failure indicator, but the number of actuations-to-failure is probably very much larger than a SLR with the same mechanical shutter. Difference being, the SLR mirror assembly. I've had a few "shutter box" replacements in SLR/DSLR cameras, but they were always related to mirror hang, or similar mirror-box problems. The only times I've had problems with the actual shutter itself have been on old film SLR (1970s-'80's) and even older SLR with cloth (silk) shutters, where the glue lets go. IOW, I wouldn't worry about it. After all, one of the (few) advantages of mirrorless cameras over SLR is its greatly-increased mechanical reliability - because, no mirror assembly.
p.1 #4 · Do you think shutter count matters on mirrorless bodies
jcolwell wrote:
Since the actual shutter is mechanical, the shutter count is relevant as a failure indicator, but the number of actuations-to-failure is probably very much larger than a SLR with the same mechanical shutter. Difference being, the SLR mirror assembly. I've had a few "shutter box" replacements in SLR/DSLR cameras, but they were always related to mirror hang, or similar mirror-box problems. The only times I've had problems with the actual shutter itself have been on old film SLR (1970s-'80's) and even older SLR with cloth (silk) shutters, where the glue lets go. IOW, I wouldn't worry about it. After all, one of the (few) advantages of mirrorless cameras over SLR is its greatly-increased mechanical reliability - because, no mirror assembly....Show more →
Very good explanation and a view I had not considered in that light. Thanks!
p.1 #5 · Do you think shutter count matters on mirrorless bodies
Yes, the shutter count does matter because it reflects the actual use of the camera. The value of the camera is determined by the wear and physical condition of it and you cannot disregard the "mileage" on it.
p.1 #7 · Do you think shutter count matters on mirrorless bodies
I wish I could find a program to tell me my R6's shutter count. I don't shoot peofesionally, but when I shoot a soccer game, I rack up the clicks quickly.
p.1 #8 · Do you think shutter count matters on mirrorless bodies
Half a million actuations sounds like a lot but if you break it down, that number can easily be hit within the "normal" life of a modern day camera. At 12fps, one could hit that range in about 12 hours of continuous shooting. Obviously no one is going lay on the shutter continuously for 12 hours and most of us will never rack up that amount before we upgrade to a new body, but I suspect working pro sport shooters could easily reach that life expectancy. IF they shoot in Mechanical the entire time.
So yes, shutter count does matter on the R5 and many others. Only when a camera body has no mechanical shutter option, as some already do, will shutter count not matter.
p.1 #9 · Do you think shutter count matters on mirrorless bodies
Shutters are wear items, like brakes on a car. At some point, you'll need one. It is a risk buying used, but you could ask yourself if you feel like you are saving enough vs new or refurb that you wouldn't be upset if you needed a shutter in 1/3/5yrs. And decide what to but accordingly.
One thing is that physical condition is a decent indicator of use. Even in a studio, a camera operated all day everyday is hoping to have wear marks, worn grip, etc. Yes, you can think os some application where it looks pristine but has a billion clicks, and also where it's beat to he'll outside but only has a couple hundred. So not perfect, but a good indicator.
p.1 #10 · Do you think shutter count matters on mirrorless bodies
The previous two posts, taken together, kind of tell the bigger story.
Shutter life is just a predication of typical/average expected time before failure — you might get lucky… or unlucky. But your own likely use patterns also factor into your decision. If you are going to go out and bang out thousands of burst mode shots over and over again… maybe the odds of encountering a failure are high enough to worry. On the other hand, if you use pattern is less aggressive — not shooting every day, shooting a few dozen or hundred shots at a time — then the risk is lower.
Dan
lighthound wrote:
Half a million actuations sounds like a lot but if you break it down, that number can easily be hit within the "normal" life of a modern day camera. At 12fps, one could hit that range in about 12 hours of continuous shooting. Obviously no one is going lay on the shutter continuously for 12 hours and most of us will never rack up that amount before we upgrade to a new body, but I suspect working pro sport shooters could easily reach that life expectancy. IF they shoot in Mechanical the entire time.
So yes, shutter count does matter on the R5 and many others. Only when a camera body has no mechanical shutter option, as some already do, will shutter count not matter....Show more →
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jedibrain wrote:
Shutters are wear items, like brakes on a car. At some point, you'll need one. It is a risk buying used, but you could ask yourself if you feel like you are saving enough vs new or refurb that you wouldn't be upset if you needed a shutter in 1/3/5yrs. And decide what to but accordingly.
One thing is that physical condition is a decent indicator of use. Even in a studio, a camera operated all day everyday is hoping to have wear marks, worn grip, etc. Yes, you can think os some application where it looks pristine but has a billion clicks, and also where it's beat to he'll outside but only has a couple hundred. So not perfect, but a good indicator. ...Show more →
p.1 #11 · Do you think shutter count matters on mirrorless bodies
For electronic shutter use these cameras have basically become video cameras in terms of wear. Having the cameras report their power-on hours like other devices would be useful as well, esp since some of these bodies see heavy video use and very few stills.
p.1 #12 · Do you think shutter count matters on mirrorless bodies
with dslr there would clues of mechanical wear from shutter count.
for milc with video capability, heat is the stressor of all electronics. the degradation of electronics will not be readily apparent when the camera has only electronic shutter and/or is often used for video capture.
p.1 #14 · Do you think shutter count matters on mirrorless bodies
Mike_5D wrote:
I wish I could find a program to tell me my R6's shutter count. I don't shoot peofesionally, but when I shoot a soccer game, I rack up the clicks quickly.
ShutterCount app works but can only show the clicks on my R6 MK II in increments of one thousand (and percent of estimated wear). Canon DSLRs display shutter actuations in single digits but I suppose Canon changed the way that works in R series cameras.
p.1 #15 · Do you think shutter count matters on mirrorless bodies
I would like to see an hours counter as well as the “releases counter” (which, on my R3, is only mechanical releases). I would expect the OLED viewfinder display and the in-body image stabiliser to wear out with use much faster than the rest of the camera. (On Canon cameras the IBIS is active all the time even when disabled, to hold the sensor in a fixed position; you can actually hear it on the R3.)
Electronics deteriorating over time is a thing and it is worse with heat, therefore it will be worse in a camera mainly used for video. However, I am not convinced this will be the likely first failure on a camera or that it is likely to happen before the camera becomes obsolete in the eyes of most people, at least most people here. One of my favourite YouTubers posts repairs of the 1970s electronic test equipment he collects, and often there’s just one or two components that have gone bad on a 50 year old device, and some of those devices are operating at radio frequencies. It happens, but unless the device is poorly designed it happens very slowly.
Another kind of electronic failure is due to mechanical shock. This can start as an intermittent failure which might rare enough for the camera to test OK on inspection by the buyer or even a good-faith reseller.
Some cameras contain a rechargeable button cell to keep the settings and clock when the main battery is out or flat. Those will fail based on calendar time. I’ve read that Canon never used them, but uses supercapacitors instead, which don’t fail over time.
p.1 #16 · Do you think shutter count matters on mirrorless bodies
Gochugogi wrote:
ShutterCount app works but can only show the clicks on my R6 MK II in increments of one thousand (and percent of estimated wear). Canon DSLRs display shutter actuations in single digits but I suppose Canon changed the way that works in R series cameras.
p.1 #17 · Do you think shutter count matters on mirrorless bodies
Personally I think the shutter count gives an indication as too how much buttons have been pressed. I think the shutter itself should easily exceed it’s recommended lifespan, but I’m more concerned about other factors, wheels slipping, buttons not responding, dead pixels etc etc, a high count gives potential buyers a insight into the life the camera had.
Also I tend to divide the listed shutter count by 36, I find that gives me a more realistic view when I ponder the theoretical number of rolls of film I would have used to hit that count..
So, for context
The R5 mentioned upthread has 500,000 = 13,888 rolls of film 😬
So roughly 1 roll shot every day for 38yrs, that’s some usage !!
My highest shutter count I own is a used ex-press 5diii, 182,000. But it was serviced annually throughout its life before it came to me. It’s the sweetest sounding camera I own, makes the canon M series and my RP sound awful with their cheap “clack” sounding shutters.
p.1 #18 · Do you think shutter count matters on mirrorless bodies
Mike_5D wrote:
If that's the one I'm thinking of, it's mac only.
Actually it has multiple versions, pro and standard and runs on both Mac OS and iOS. The iOS version is very popular but I've only used the Mac OS version since I'm not a smartphone user.
p.1 #19 · Do you think shutter count matters on mirrorless bodies
Gochugogi wrote:
Actually it has multiple versions, pro and standard and runs on both Mac OS and iOS. The iOS version is very popular but I've only used the Mac OS version since I'm not a smartphone user.
No iphone for me.
Dec 27, 2023 at 12:13 PM
AmbientMike Offline • • • • • • [X]
p.1 #20 · Do you think shutter count matters on mirrorless bodies
If you are using the mechanical shutter on mirrorless of course it matters. the shutter on my m4/3 failed. Fortunately it failed open, and I could use it to some degree, but obviously you'd have a problem if it closed permanently
